If you don't want to build a Sightstone, don't play Support.

Shadòw·Jul 16, 2016·25 votes·1,338 views

When you decide to play Support, you have to get a . With this discussions of people saying that they don't have to build if they don't want to... yes you have to. While it is the job of the whole team to have vision on the map, it's the core job of supports.

So if you don't want to build it and get Damage Items instead, play a carry role instead. What would you say to an who decides to go AD because she "doesn't want to buy AP items". Or an who goes Full AD.

An AP Carry is supposed to deal AP Damage and get AP Items, A Tank is supposed to get Tank items, And a Support is Supposed to peel, cc and ward, for which he needs a .

So, yes, you'll have to get a if you decide to play Support, everything else is trolling.

82 Comments

redfeenixJul 16, 20169 votes

This is why people don't play support, and it's the least picked role. The other players think they're so much better than you and tell you what to build. Let me play my champ my way sir

SiytherJul 16, 20169 votes

i agree there is no rush to buy sight stone at all. everyone has yellow trinket ward for ur own lane dont fucking expect the support to ward for mid or top lane but thats exactly what happens. PPl start getting picked off then some asshat says we need vision well omg put a ward down instead of bitching. I cant tell u how many times morons say this shit and i have the only wards on the map as adc.With 4 wards between bot lane and buying pinks u should be able to hold off on sightstone till later in the game. Sure u will need to buy it eventually but it doesnt not have to be ur first damn item

redfeenixJul 16, 20162 votes

Exactly ! Well said

AkeneroJul 16, 20163 votes

And junglers have access to trackers knife, which is more powerful than the smite upgrades by a long shot.

ZT XperimentorJul 16, 20162 votes

Spot on, sadly.

LuggJul 16, 20166 votes

Wards=wins. If you don't want to ward, you don't want to win. It's as simple as that.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 16, 20163 votes

Ekko/Yasuo/Illaoi/Lucian/Jhin/Zed/Rengar=wins. If you don't want to be broken, you don't want to win a one-sided unbalanced game. It's as simple as that. FTFY

SiytherJul 16, 20164 votes

no one said not 2 ward we just saying u dont have to buy sightstone to be able to ward lol

LuggJul 16, 20163 votes

Sightstone is necessary because of the CD on the yellow and blue wards. You can light up much more of the map with the SS.

SiytherJul 18, 20161 votes

and u are another that dont listen i never said not to get one. I said it can wait til a little later on than your first item. Early game and for a while you dont need that much vison your in lane trinkets and pinks are enough until laners are good and out of laning phase then you will have to get sightstone trinkets dont last long, and you have to back 2 much by the mid game to refill them. Sufice to say that if you are playing a roaming support (like Bard) you maybe want that sightstone first, But in solo que most times you will be retricted to lane early until out of laning phase and there is only so many place ganks can even come from

LuggJul 18, 20161 votes

There are definitely times that you don't have to rush SS. However, most of the time you should get it on your first back. Early game is so important right now, so you don't want to get ganked bot and give up a double kill. This is quite easy to do since most junglers will have sweeper and know if you have warded. Plus some junglers (Zac for instance) can pretty much bypass your wards.

Plus most ADCs don't drop their free ward anyway.

SiytherJul 19, 20161 votes

must be why they cant climb i main adc i ward like hell is coming. dont know why carries think they never have to ward thats just so dumb. I almost never die from lack of vision in the early game cause i ward with my support but still dont save u from those 4 man level 3 dives evn if u see it coming lol

LuggJul 19, 20161 votes

If the ADC and support alternate warding the river bush, you have plenty of vision to get you thru laning phase. However that rarely happens.

FireStorm21Jul 21, 20161 votes

LOL, dude, I cant tell you how many times this has happened to me in my last 20 games. Oh wait yes I can, the answer is 0.

Unstoppable MonkJul 16, 20163 votes

I like how people want to judge support role to a higher standard when less people play it willingly. You really can't be that picky with a support.

We all know you people have junglers that tower dive just to feed the enemy laner, ADCs that can't CS, midlaners that can't hit a skillshot, and top laners that still think Nasus Sheen rush is good.

I would take support without sightstone over these types as long as they know what they're doing.

BakedLotionJul 16, 20163 votes

If a Garen wants to go full AD, let him. If a Syndra wants to be an ADC, let her. Are u against off meta picks too?

ShadòwJul 17, 20162 votes

No but you sound like the typical guy that loses my Promos

BakedLotionJul 17, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No but you sound like the typical guy that loses my Promos

You never specified ranked games.

DemoGuideJul 17, 20162 votes

DFGaren never forget.

Angry MonsterJul 17, 20162 votes

if off meta builds like ADC syndra are so great start running them in your rank play. Just cause a game is a normal does not mean tying one arm behind your back so your team has to play even harder to win.

Weird shit should be done only in complete premades.

BakedLotionJul 17, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angry Monster,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0v2TdF8N,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2016-07-17T13:12:49.724+0000)

if off meta builds like ADC syndra are so great start running them in your rank play. Just cause a game is a normal does not mean tying one arm behind your back so your team has to play even harder to win.

Weird shit should be done only in complete premades.

I never said it's great. I said let her do it if she wants to. It's a normal game. As long as she isn't purposely trolling then why is it any of your business? Riot has said themselves that off meta picks are not against the rules. So get your dick outta your ass and try to have fun once in a while/

Angry MonsterJul 17, 20161 votes

I never said it's great. I said let her do it if she wants to. It's a normal game. As long as she isn't purposely trolling then why is it any of your business?

Cause adc syndra is trolling. Just cause ranged does not mean you should build stupid shit under the guise of " i can".

Riot has said themselves that off meta picks are not against the rules. So get your dick outta your ass and try to have fun once in a while/

They mean off meta as in picking an usual champ, not playing ADC Karma.

You seem to lack the understanding that proper building is not a meta discusion. At some point you do get to call people out for trolling. Or everything is just off meta.

BakedLotionJul 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angry Monster,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0v2TdF8N,comment-id=0008000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-17T14:41:59.446+0000)

Cause adc syndra is trolling. Just cause ranged does not mean you should build stupid shit under the guise of " i can".

They mean off meta as in picking an usual champ, not playing ADC Karma.

You seem to lack the understanding that proper building is not a meta discusion. At some point you do get to call people out for trolling. Or everything is just off meta.

Trolling is going AP riven or AP garen. Going ADC Syndra isn't. AD scales on anyone. AP doesn't.

Syndra has self peel, can auto while casting abilites, and has high base damage burst. Why exactly can she NOT go adc in a normal? Cause you don't like it? 95% of normal games I go into don't say shit when people pick off meta builds. You're the minority that actually cares because you think every game needs to be 100% serious and tryhard. Someone doesn't like to have fun once in a while.

Normal games don't affect your ranking. Again, as long as they aren't running down mid, or going AP on a champion with no AP scalings, it's not trolling. And yes, I've seen multiple attack speed karmas in the jungle. And they do quite well sometimes.

sheldonbunnyJul 16, 20162 votes

I'll agree as far as sightstone and warding. Past that and sweeper, it's personal preference on how to build. Aggressive play styles warrant aggressive builds. A good offense can often enough be a good defense. It's not a one size fits all to supporting.

OH MAN NOT GOODJul 16, 20162 votes

[deleted]

Duke AnaxJul 16, 20161 votes

Yep and Garen is not even a Tank, he is a Fighter

Ariel the CruelJul 16, 20161 votes

Juggernaut, specifically.

cuddlykitten4Jul 21, 20161 votes

Garen summons a sword from the sky to smite his enemies. He's obviously a mage.

Ariel the CruelJul 22, 20161 votes

Not since they removed DFG. RiP.

cuddlykitten4Jul 22, 20161 votes

Ah yes, I almost forgot about the Demacian Frag Grenade.

Dunkrius2gJul 18, 20161 votes

Oh sure with that 30 armor and magic resist and that assumes he can atleast get a minimum of 100 cs and a couple of kills.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 16, 20162 votes

I want to say a few things. Sightstone does help and it does give an advantage but it's not the item that actually helps, it all relies on who you are laning against and honestly it's the type of Sightstone that's important, just getting item 2049 is honestly one of the worst ideas I've ever done on an AP Support like Soraka/Sona, however on Taric/Thresh/Braum it's different because they make use of the health in their stats and abilities properly. For thresh it's just survivability due to extra HP. I only rush Sightstone(Eye of the Equinox) if I am a tanky support. Right now with all the damage I end up just being food if I buy Sightstone first on an AP support because it literally offers nothing good for me as a purchase, we already have warding totem, why would I rush sightstone so early when I can potentially help my laner get more fed by doing more damage and STILL keeping the lane warded with the totem. This thread is completely unnecessary and the hostility from you actually makes me wonder if you take Support seriously. If you took Support seriously you wouldn't be this hostile or trying to tell people how to do support the way you do it. This is a team game. You do whatever works for you the best and work together as a team and as a community you all need to get over yourselves and stop being so hostile toward one another and maybe more people would come back to this game. As of now, this game is garbage cause of all the people who are self-centered, and only care for kda(That includes "Support Mains") We can be just as arrogant as an adc if not worse, and that attitude needs to stop. From all of us.

rtbf221651412Jul 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aids cuz League,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=0v2TdF8N,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-16T17:05:07.386+0000)

just getting is honestly one of the worst ideas I've ever done on an AP Support like Soraka/Sona,

What is so bad about having item 2303 or item 2045 on Soraka?

20% item cooldown reduction... For the red ward.

HP. Yes, Soraka uses HP based on percentage. However, that misses that you can build item 3083 and get a passive that heals your 'secondary mana' (HP) when you hit 3k HP. Soraka can heal and still be considered 'out of combat'.

Sona can also use the 20% item cooldown reduction. The HP is just there to add to survive. Do you know how close Sona has to get to the enemy to poke?

item 2301 Would be more prefered on Sona if you don't care for the 20% Item CD.

item 2302 can be used on Soraka. Gains HP and Mana Regeneration. W uses both HP and Mana.

OleandervineJul 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What is so bad about having or on Soraka?

20% item cooldown reduction... For the red ward.

HP. Yes, Soraka uses HP based on percentage. However, that misses that you can build and get a passive that heals your 'secondary mana' (HP) when you hit 3k HP. Soraka can heal and still be considered 'out of combat'.

Sona can also use the 20% item cooldown reduction. The HP is just there to add to survive. Do you know how close Sona has to get to the enemy to poke?

Would be more prefered on Sona if you don't care for the 20% Item CD.

can be used on Soraka. Gains HP and Mana Regeneration. W uses both HP and Mana.

A few reasons why Equinox is bad for Soraka - she has to last hit to generate an equivalent amount of gold that the Watchers or Equinox generates, and she's typically not a big fan of being that close to combat. This same principle also holds true for Watchers. Additionally, building HP on Soraka is irrelevant to her use of it as a resource because her heal uses a percent of her HP instead of a flat number; she actually benefits more from having less HP because she'll heal a larger percent of her HP from Rejuvenation when Starcall hits. Soraka only builds HP to cap at 3000 for the Warmog to trigger it's passive in those particular builds. She self-harms at the same pace regardless of whether she has 3000 HP or 1800.

rtbf221651412Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A few reasons why Equinox is bad for Soraka - she has to last hit to generate an equivalent amount of gold that the Watchers or Equinox generates, and she's typically not a big fan of being that close to combat. This same principle also holds true for Watchers. Additionally, building HP on Soraka is irrelevant to her use of it as a resource because her heal uses a percent of her HP instead of a flat number; she actually benefits more from having less HP because she'll heal a larger percent of her HP from Rejuvenation when Starcall hits. Soraka only builds HP to cap at 3000 for the Warmog to trigger it's passive in those particular builds. She self-harms at the same pace regardless of whether she has 3000 HP or 1800.

I think you are disregarding that healing does not put you in combat and it doesn't matter if she uses a percentage of HP if your hp is going to be 'healed' at a fast pace. The watchers passive get's disabled if you last hit. Each charge is 15 gold (from what I remember). Starcall, E, and basic attacks proc the passive. Supports should not be last hitting unless they are doing Equinox anyway. Q procs the Equinox passive. You don't need to basic and you should be harassing the enemy anyway. (Who are usually near minions) I'm not even sure you know what you are talking about.

OleandervineJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think you are disregarding that healing does not put you in combat and it doesn't matter if she uses a percentage of HP if your hp is going to be 'healed' at a fast pace. Equinox is about staying in lane and getting minion gold from not hitting the minions. Instead, your ADC or other minions kill the minions and you get gold that way. You completely destroy the point of the passive by last hitting. The watchers passive get's disabled if you last hit. Each charge is 15 gold (from what I remember). Starcall, E, and basic attacks proc the passive. I'm not even sure you know what you are talking about.

Are you talking about the same Eye of the Equinox I'm talking about? That builds from the Relic Shield-Targon's Brace? The one that gives you an execute and shares gold? That Eye of the Equinox? Eye of the Oasis builds from Ancient Coin-Nomad's Medallion, and grants gold when a minion you don't last hit dies. That item is a much better Sightstone upgrade for Soraka because it grants her HP and Mana regen. I don't know why you think Equinox is better.

rtbf221651412Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Are you talking about the same Eye of the Equinox I'm talking about? That builds from the Relic Shield-Targon's Brace? The one that gives you an execute and shares gold? That Eye of the Equinox? Eye of the Oasis builds from Ancient Coin-Nomad's Medallion, and grants gold when a minion you don't last hit dies. That item is a much better Sightstone upgrade for Soraka because it grants her HP and Mana regen. I don't know why you think Equinox is better.

Equinox is bugged that even ranged attacks and abilities can proc it. (Melee basics my butt.) It also heals your ADC and you at the same time. Combined with WMA, it's a win-win. All items can be used. You just have to play her differently and build her differently for each one.

OleandervineJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Equinox is bugged that even ranged attacks and abilities can proc it. (Melee basics my butt.) It also heals your ADC and you at the same time. Combined with WMA, it's a win-win. All items can be used. You just have to play her differently and build her differently for each one.

First off, it's not bugged. The gold share is when you last hit. The execute mechanic is only for melee. Secondly, I stated in my original post that Soraka doesn't like the Relic and Spellthief lines because the gold generation requires her to be close to combat, where she's in the most danger. Plus, with the shield line, she doesn't do well because her AAs do pitiful damage. Third, contrary to your other post, Warmogs and such will not trigger if she's using the shield or edge line because she would be engaging in combat for gold.

rtbf221651412Jul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First off, it's not bugged. The gold share is when you last hit. The execute mechanic is only for melee. Secondly, I stated in my original post that Soraka doesn't like the Relic and Spellthief lines because the gold generation requires her to be close to combat, where she's in the most danger. Plus, with the shield line, she doesn't do well because her AAs do pitiful damage. Third, contrary to your other post, Warmogs and such will not trigger if she's using the shield or edge line because she would be engaging in combat for gold.

First off "Melee basic attacks execute". That was the part I was clearly talking about.

Second off Q has a range in which you can harass your enemies safely unless you never played Soraka before. Then, that is your problem.

Third, you should be backing away when low on HP and not fighting to begin with. That is when the WMA passive is used.

cuddlykitten4Jul 21, 20162 votes

Dear OP, you buy the damn sightstone. The support is too busy saving your life to be listening to your "commands". Also, SS is more or less useless now. There are enough options for warding that if the support has to buy a SS for the team to have proper vision then it's YOU who isn't doing your job correctly. Don't blame the support for your shortcomings.

cuddlykitten4Jul 21, 20161 votes

Also, full AD Garen is a real thing that usually wins the game by himself.....so yea, your own example disproved your own point.

ShadòwJul 21, 20161 votes

why doesn't it surprise me that you are Bronze 4

cuddlykitten4Jul 21, 20161 votes

I find it surprising that you aren't. Now, don't confuse ranking with knowledge of the game. They are extremely different. I just don't always have the split second button press skills one would need to go all that far up the ladder. Which is fine by me. However, when it comes to builds, I know what I'm doing. In fact, the fact that you think my rank is in direct correlation with how valuable what I say is tells me all I need to know about you. Let me guess, your account was boosted wasn't it? The season with the biggest issue with boosting, and you're on here complaining about something that hasn't been relevant since late season 4 (early season 5 if you're stretching it) tells me that you are a bronzie with a friend who is good at this game. Regardless of rank, you can be wrong. The fact that you can't comprehend that tells me that all the other plats are gonna send you back down that ladder real soon. I also checked out your stats. Considering that you are obviously a mid/jun main but your top three champs as far as performance goes are ADCs tell me that you have a friend who is an ADC main that carries you through tilts. It's interesting that every time your matches start to have more losses you magically switch to an ADC main and start winning all of them. I find it hard to believe that you are what is winning your matches. I don't really care ultimately, rank is a joke considering that this is a free game that you will never make a dime off of based on how "good" you are at it, but you know, since you decided to try to pull that card I'll go ahead and call you out.

ShadòwJul 22, 20161 votes

you just said AD Garen is useful and SS useless and want to tell me that you have more game knowledge than me.

tell me more

cuddlykitten4Jul 22, 20161 votes

AD Garen is useful. If you have the tank role covered already then AD Garen can pile damage on. He's a fighter, not a tank. He has more than one build path and style. People tend to build him tank more often to work off of his passive and the passive on his W. If your focus is more on his damaging abilities for waveclearing and destruction then AD is far superior and a much faster strategy. AD Garen is the Garen you use if you want to not let it hit late game due to the enemy comp. Also, I said SS is more or less useless. It has a few purposes such as Bard or anyone with a full activated item build such as zz rot and banner. However, with those probably 3 champs who are exceptions it serves no real purpose anymore. If your team is properly warding then you have the potential to have 12 wards on the field if no one has upgraded the trinket. If the trinket was upgraded then you can have an unlimited number on the field as long as the enemy hasn't found them and destroyed them. If SS could upgrade to give you pink wards then yea, it would be useful. However, since it can't it serves no real purpose aside from firing off zz rot faster. The wards it gives you last no longer than trinkets do, and they still follow the same rule of no more than 3 on the field per player. It is far more useful for your allies to also be doing their job of warding the field so that the support can take a more useful utility item. Now, that was your last free lesson that you get from me. I do find it interested that you avoided the part where I called you out on being boosted entirely which tells me I hit it dead on. I don't much care for cheaters and booster kids so this is all you get from me. Take these lessons and learn them, maybe it'll help you not get destroyed by the people who earned their rankings. See you in bronze soon :)

ShadòwJul 22, 20161 votes

He is a juggernaut,

Look at his kit. He has to run at his Opponents to deal Damage. An AD Garen is instantly dead before he even gets to his opponents.

And when he would do, his combo would simply need too much time to execute. Time he doesn't have when not building tanky.

And i don't care about People calling me boosted because i know i am not. Why should i have to defend my Elo against some random stranger who didn't even saw me playing?

FireStorm21Jul 21, 20161 votes

but but what if you want to deal damage and just dont want to worry about farming minions, wouldnt then you go support without sightstone?

ShadòwJul 21, 20162 votes

Jungle?

Digital SauceJul 21, 20161 votes

I think you're missing my point, warding items are the most slot inefficient items because of their weak stats and passives. Vision is still very good/strong.

Red and blue smite are always more useful to JG than wards because wards don't win games, math/mechanics win games. I'd say that sweeper is the better trinket option for objective control and ganks but pinks can do that job too while less gold-efficient. A Sightstone is useful if you can't place regular vision wards, the JG needs to buy one if they go with red/blue smite and sweeper or they're getting carried (which may be intended). It's situational of course.

I entirely disagree that it's the job of the support, that meta is gone. It was once their job but it's gone now. Supports should be supporting a player's play.

If supports weren't supposed to deal damage then why include ad/ap scaling on them? You have to accept the incentive that's there before you theorize.

I want my supports to peel or CC and tank for my team. I don't want them roaming around warding. JG is already there so let JG do it sooner. Efficiency is better.

KeepeJul 22, 20161 votes

Are you one of those ADCs who rages three minutes in because the support can't ward properly yet? No, the support does not HAVE to get a sight stone. It would be very valuable to the team, but NO ONE is REQUIRED to build an item because you say so.