Skip to content

What if wriggles lantern and feral flare granted no bonus damage or gold on jungle monsters?

Critkeeper··1 votes·566 views

Then rushing it would make you have very low clear speed and you'd never get it stacked, so you wouldn't want to rush it.

HOWEVER

You could still be "stacking it" as long as you have a machete, an item that any jungler starts with. Remember, that any mob kills you get while holding machete count towards the flare.

So what would you build?

You'd build stuff that makes you clear fast of course.

"How does that make a feral flare jungler different than a spirit item jungler?"

A spirit item jungler can upgrade machete early on and get a bunch of useful stats right off the bat, including safety and sustain and gold generation in the jungle.

If you upgrade your machete to a spirit item, you lose all your "hidden stacks" so a feral flare jungler would want to build something that still gives him clear speed and sustain, but he wouldn't be able to build anything that would grant him as much clear or sustain and a spirit item. In other words, banking all your bucks on flare is risky and that risk is a trade off for its value once finally transformed.

You also wouldn't expect to see flare junglers outleveling and outfarming their laning counterparts because they wouldn't have near the clear speed as they do now, since it won't amplify damage or gold on mobs. The reward of the feral flare path with this change isn't the clear speed or the bonus gold-- it is purely the item itself.

How could that much risk be worth just having some bonus magic damage and on hit healing, now that the bonus gold and clear speed is gone?

It probably wouldn't be with the numbers it has now. I'd buff it a little bit but after it transforms I'd "turn off" the ability for flare to gain stacks by farming the jungle mobs, and instead force the flare holder to fight with his team for assists and kills in order to gain further stacks.

Given the disparity between this idea and what feral flare currently is, there would have to be huge numerical differences between the items of course.

5 Comments

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Wriggle's would be completely pointless? Wriggle's entire existence is based around increasing clear speed and that's how it's always been, clear speed and FF are literally the item's only reason for existence ATM . Plus removing the extra gold would let yi and Xin get both a flare and a SotLE, and Both champions never had a problem farming the jungle. Do you really want that to happen?

Critkeeper1 votes

You could fix that issue (and ensure that nobody can buy more than one machete, which this change would require in order to not be abused) by globally reducing the gold from the jungle by 10% and then adding "+10% gold from monsters" onto machete and anything that builds out of machete.

KrawMagraw1 votes

No this would still completely defeat the point of wriggles giving carry junglers the type of playstyle they need to be effective, and that type of playstyle is farming.

The biggest problem for FF imo, is it's gating and infinite scaling. 4.6 adressed a good part of it's gating, and now they just need to fix it's scaling, I think capping the stacks at 20 for FF is reasonable, maybe even 30, but infinite is what breaks champs like Noc, Yi, and Xin.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Infinite sustain, that is. The thing that gets the most ridiculous with high FF stacks is the on-hit sustain.

I still have nightmares of that Tiger Udyr with high FF. He did a real 3vs5 and came out winning. Fortunately, it was one of my buddies who played him...

KrawMagraw1 votes

Ya I had a game where about 3 of me and my teammates were at our mid inhib turret each about half health or so and the other 2 in fountain with homeguards, we had just killed 3 of the enemy team. A heavily farmed xin zhao at 5 or so items shows up and I ping him cause I thought we could take him with our champs,( half health ones are Morg, ziggs, and some tank idk) and he comes in and just pentas us after my 2 fountain teamates homeguard in, it was the most saddening thing ever we couldn't do dmg to him. I know part of that is simply Xin with lifesteal+FF, and Also he had Spirit visage breaking it more, but for real, the on-hit on FF outclasses conventional lifesteal extremely hard, Plus the on hit Magic dmg doesn't proc Thornmail

More from Live Gameplay Balance

More by Critkeeper