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[Item Reworks] Pyro's Item Overhaul 1 - Expanding Support: Talisman&Aegis Revamp and much more

Thats My Brand·3/13/2014, 5:00:08 PM·14 votes·2,176 views

WARNING: Wall of text - Quality content - "Riot plx". For TL;DR skip to "Summary"

After some feedback to my posts on LoL Wiki I've decided to continue my project part by part and post the drafts on community forums. Any further feedback is more than appreciated.

Note: this is half "Rito pls", half hobbyist theorycrafting - I'm a Game Design engineer and simply enjoy designing systems like these. Nevertheless, I feel like some issues raised here, especially the OP state of Talisman of Ascension and annoying buildpath of Aegis of the Legion, truly require some work. I also insist that abandoned items such as Atma's Impaler or Ohmwrecker deserve some love and that my solutions would help them find their place in the game.

#The Route Dilemma

Don't get me wrong, the new gold generation items are one of the best things that happened to LoL in the last few years. That doesn't mean, though, that the system is flawless. There are some key issues that need to be addressed and, in my opinion, can be easily solved.

First and foremost, the supports are facing a tough choice between optimal gold generation method and desired final item. The main culprit here is the item 3069 Talisman of Ascension with its stupidly high lategame efficiency. In its current state it outclasses the other options in both post laning phase gold gain and team-wide utility on active. Even though new Frostfang became a strong laning item, we still see supports selling it for Talisman.

Second problem is the followup after gold gain + Sightstone + boots core. Long story short, item 3105 Aegis of the Legion needs a better build path that doesn't require four basic items, when supports are the ones with least free item slots.

The last point would be, after piggybacking some new ideas for items, allowing for supports to choose a different way to upgrade their Sightstone and utilize underused summoner spells such as old forgotten Heal and Clairvoyance.

#Bringing Back Shurelya's Reverie

As I've already mentioned, Talisman's active in conjunction with its superior late power warps the whole support itemization. The only way to free the gold gain items from that burden is to rework Talisman, leaving the same base stats. The team-wide speedup, however, is surely sought after, and bringing it back to a widely available item would not only allow supports for a better gold item adjustment, but also open up the possibility of becoming team's engage tool for wannabe initiators such as Skarner, Udyr or even Darius.

NEW ITEM: Shurelya's Reverie
Recipe: item 3010 + item 3067 + 600 g (total cost: 2650 g)
+400 health
+300 mana
+10% cooldown reduction
Passive - Valor's Reward: On leveling up, restores 150 health and 200 mana over 8 seconds.
Active: Grants nearby allies +40% movement speed for 3 seconds. 60 second cooldown. 600 range.
Hidden Passive: The movement speed buff is halved for targets who have been affected by it in the previous 10 seconds.

I believe this form suits the item's purpose perfectly. It requires a thought out investment that doesn't neccessarily have to pay off. Stacking more than one on team is counterproductive due to the debuff similar to the one on Locket of the Iron Solari.

And even if you feel like you still need to get it, you can at least have your desired gold generation item before it.

#Six Cores

As you may quickly realize, the design behind this rework is to make every gold generation path have two final upgrades - one active and one passive. The passive upgrades cost a tiny bit more since they're a "safe pick" and the active ones require some effort to be fully utilized.

item 3401 Face of the Mountain is fine in its current form, allowing tanks like Alistar Alistar or Leona Leona to increase their supportive power while itemizing for defense they so much need. However, sometimes the durability from Relic Shield is desired in lane on supports who don't really plan on stacking health, or don't really need the shield active as much as the ideal case would imply. I saw this as a perfect opportunity to implement Zeke's Herald as an alternative Targon's upgrade:

item 3050 Zeke's Herald

Recipe: item 3097 Targon's Brace + item 1053 Vampiric Scepter + 535 g (total cost: 2200 g)
+200 health
+10 health regeneration Passive - Spoils of War: Melee autoattacks execute minions below 200 (+100% AD) health. Killing a minion by any means heals yourself and the nearest allied champion for 50 health and grants them gold equal to the kill. These effects require a nearby allied champion and consume a charge. Recharges every 30 seconds for a maximum of 4 charges.
Aura: Nearby allied champions gain +15 attack damage and +10% life steal. (1100 Range)

Right now Zeke's Herald is an extremely situational item built quite late in some games with very AD-heavy comps, and that's partially due to its difficult build path that renders it a very expensive Kindlegem upgrade that doesn't give the support itelf anything more. As a Targon's upgrade, however, it can replace the mandatory Vampiric Scepter opening on ADCs and allow them to rush Infinity Edge or even Trinity Force instead of the mandatory Bloodthirster. Not to mention that such an item could make way for some interesting laning pairs (Leona - Jarvan being one) or more unorthodox crazy supports like Pantheon.

Another neat change to support itemization line would be adding a Rejuvenation Bead to the recipe for Targon's Brace - it's mostly to allow for more flexible item purchases without losing the progress towards the final gold gain item (wards+pots+bead on first trip back, for example). Same goes for Frostfang (building from Faerie Charm) and Nomad's Medallion (building from Coin, Charm and Bead).

As I've mentioned earlier, Talisman of Ascension loses its active. The new go-to active upgrade to Nomad's Medallion is an already popular item that suits the regeneration theme perfectly:

item 3222 Mikael's Crucible
Recipe: item 3096 Nomad's Medallion + item 3028 Chalice of Harmony + 255 g (total cost: 2000 g)
+40 magic resistance
+10 health regeneration
+15 mana regeneration
+2 gold per 10 seconds
Passive - Favor: Being near a minion death without granting the killing blow grants 3 gold and heals for 10 health.
Passive - Mana Font: Increases your Mana Regen by 1% per 1% Mana you are missing.
Active: Removes all stuns, roots, taunts, fears, silences and slows on an allied champion and heals for 50 + 10% of the target's maximum health. (180 second cooldown)

This item already has its purpose and allows for some really nice plays. The sheer power of the active, nerfed a tiny bit in this draft compared to the live version, is enough to make it a worthwhile pickup. As with the current version, its scaling mana regen can be handy for mana hungry supports such as Nami Nami.

The active is similar to the one of Face of the Mountain, but serves different purpose and has significantly longer cooldown. Both should remain viable options.

item 3069 Talisman of Ascension
Recipe: item 3096 Nomad's Medallion + (new item) Meki Pendant + 735 g (total cost: 2200 g)
+20% cooldown reduction
+10 health regeneration
+15 mana regeneration
+2 gold per 10 seconds
Passive - Favor: Being near a minion death without granting the killing blow grants 3 gold and heals for 10 health.
Aura - Visage: Nearby allies have their health and mana regeneration effects from all sources increased by 20%.
Does not stack with Spirit Visage.

New Talisman is a passive aura item that allows you to amplify you team's sustain. It should be exceptionally powerful with champions such as Dr. Mundo or Swain, but works quite well for every carry's lifesteal or your own heals. Should be a very good item for support Soraka Soraka or Sona Sona.

Note: Meki Pendant (faerie charm + fareie charm + 240 g = 600 g) is a cheap CDR item meant to compete with Chalice in mid lane. Builds into Talisman, Morellonomicon and Will of the Ancients.

Regarding the Frostfang upgrades, one thing that I can't really comprehend is why Riot gave conventional supports AP ratios on utility while giving them no viable way to get meaningful amounts of AP. If supports worked with AP, they'd be played mid (see: Lulu, the new midlane terror). First step here would be changing the ratio on item 3092 Frost Queen's Claim active from per level to 30% of Ability Power. Second step would be introducing an alternative upgrade that would allow supports to get a meaningful amount of AP for themselves:

NEW ITEM: Shard of True Ice
Recipe: item 3098 Frostfang + Blasting Wand+ 490 g (total cost: 2200 g)
+50 ability power
+8 mana regeneration
+4 gold per 10 seconds
Passive - Tribute: Your next damaging ability or autoattack against a champion or structure will deal 15 additional damage and grant 10 gold. You generate one charge of Tribute every 10 seconds, storing up to 3.
Passive - Snowball: Champion kills and assists grant a stack of Snowball (max 10 stacks). You lose 2 stacks on death.
Aura - Brilliance: Nearby allied champions gain +4 ability power per stack of Snowball.

So with this item fully stacked, you gain +40 AP for yourself and the whole team. Fits the "high risk" playstyle of AP supports without creating too much impact right after purchase. The AP aura can of course prove useful in any double AP comps. Overall it should eb a worthwhile pickup for safe supports with good AP scalings such as Lulu Lulu or Janna Janna, but also a possibility for Zyra Zyra or Annie Annie.

#The Step Further

As mentioned in the first part, supports don't have many free item slots. The current build path of Aegis of the Legion is a byproduct of multiple retunes of aura items, including the change to Emblem of Valor, which used to be a lifesteal aura item building into Stark's Fervor, then a health regen aura mid-tier item, and finally transforming into what is now known as Targon's Brace. In effect, Aegis requires 4 small items, and supports don't really have the slots to gather them. At this point, the best way to enable supports to pick up this Aegis with less panful path, while evading the Bulwark syndrome, where the item becomes must-have for every team, is to drop the health regeneration and make the whole Locket line specifically anti-burst.

So, the support-friendly Aegis of the Legion goes as follows:

item 3105 Aegis of the Legion
Recipe: item 1029 Cloth Armor + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle + 400 g (total cost: 1500 g)
+150 health
+15 armor
Aura - Legion: Nearby allied champions gain +20 magic resistance. (1100 range)

With lowered base stats and no health regeneration, this item becomes an easier, but more specialized pickup. The upgrade remains almost unchanged in its final form:

item 3190 Locket of the Iron Solari
Recipe: item 3105 Aegis of the Legion + item 3067 Kindlegem + 450 g (total cost: 2800 g)
+350 health
+20 armor
+10% cooldown reduction
Aura - Legion: Nearby allied champions gain +25 magic resist. (1100 range)
Active: Shield yourself and nearby allied champions for 5 seconds, absorbing up to 50 (+10 per level) damage. 60 second cooldown. (600 range)

The power shift rounds down to more comfortable build path and slight more specialized statistics. With no health regeneration, the item gains a slight stat buff and a small cost increase. Kindlegem build seems intuitive (the CDR doesn't appear out of nowhere) and allows for more comfortable build for toplaner or junglers.

We've got anti-burst, but Aegis losing regen means no anti-poke aura. That's where the tank-based aura items come into play.

The idea behind tank scalings on auras is to prevent junglers and supports from being forced to rush those items, since aura items have the potential to be very effective in teamfights. Scaling aura effects I've designed are meant to be effective only in conjunction with other items, making rushing them very ineffective. The philosophy is to make true tanks provide team-wide utility after getting themselves tank stats, at the cost of having a slightly ineffective item from the selfish point of view. This implements the idea of bruisers having durability+damage, and tanks having durability+utility. An example of such an item is the alternative upgrade to Aegis:

NEW ITEM: Runic Bulwark
Recipe: item 3105 Aegis of the Legion + (new item) Emblem of Valor + 950 g (total cost: 3100 g) +200 health
+30 armor
Aura - Valor: Nearby allied champions gain armor equal to 20% of your magic resistance.
Aura - Legion: Nearby allied champions gain +20 magic resist and +10 health regen per 5 seconds. (1100 range)

So here's how it works. In a matchup against AD-heavy team, Locket of the Iron Solari can protect your backline against their burst, but not against DPS. And AD means a lot of DPS. So the idea is to provide an armor aura expansion to Aegis, but with a condition: you have to be a tank. Because only a tank will itemize not only against primary threats, but also against the secondary ones. Plus, tanks often have their own resist steroids. It's surely a new concept. You basically need to purchae an MR item beforehand - a Banshee's Veil, for example - to make sure this one becomes cost effective at all. However, in a lategame build, the aura can reach a really meaningful amount of armor. Still, it's barely slot effective for the wielder as it should - it's very effectively tanking for your team at the expense of your own power.

What about full AD teams? When the tank doesn't want any MR at all? Well, that's where stacking armor via Thornmail and Randuin's Omen is already effective enough, and being able to top it with an armor aura would be an overkill. This item is meant to protect your squishies against the likes of Talon, Riven and Zed.

The second ingredient in the recipe - Emblem of Valor - builds from cloth+bead just like the old one, costs the same (650 g), shares the MR-to-armor conversion passive and has an alternative "selfish" upgrade - more on that in later episodes. Now, another example of a tank-oriented team utility item:

NEW ITEM: Arcane Helix
Recipe: item 3070 Tear of the Goddess + item 1029 Cloth Armor + item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle + 1000 g (total cost: 2400 g)
PRAISE THE HELIX +250 mana
+30 armor
+30 magic resistance
+8 mana regeneration
Passive – Mana Charge: Grants +4 maximum Mana (max +750 Mana) for each spell cast and Mana expenditure (occurs up to 2 times every 8 seconds). Additionally, you passively increase your maximum mana by 1 every 5 seconds. Transforms into Innervating Locket at +750 mana.
Toggle: Channel for up to 10 seconds to recover 4% of your missing health per second at the cost of 25 mana per second. 60 second cooldown once the channel ends.

Innervating Locket
(+1000 mana, +30 armor, +30 magic resistance, +8 mana regeneration)
Toggle: Channel for up to 10 seconds to heal nearby allies for 4% of your health at the cost of 50 mana per second. 60 second cooldown once the channel ends.

So this item is meant for mana-hungry tanks like Malphite Malphite and Maokai Maokai who lack viable mana regen items in laning phase, but can be picked up by other champions, like Chogath Cho'Gath or Swain Swain - or even by supports. Generally it comboes well with items like item 3110 Frozen Heart and item 3027 Rod of Ages, but requires a filled Tear to gain team-wide utility, so it might be a better idea to get it on a solo laner than a support. It scales with health, mostly, so its primary target is tanks, but it's not that hard to stack heaps of HP on some mages either. I'm not entirely sure about this item's effectiveness, this would probably require lots of testing.

The item is channeled, which means you can toggle if off to avert spending too much mana - and that your enemies can stop you with CC from using it in the middle of a fight. I think one of the most impactful uses of this item would be healing the enemy poke (because screw Nidalee that's why).

Another potentially gamebreaking item is this pretty one slot wonder:

NEW ITEM: Soul Shroud
Recipe: item 3067 Kindlegem + Meki Pendant + 550 gold (total cost: 2000 g)
+200 health
+10 mana regeneration
+20% cooldown reduction
Passive: Increases the maximum Cooldown Reduction to 50%.

This thing is potentially absurdly powerful on CDR-reliant champions such as Sona. Rank 3 Crescendo has a 100 second cooldown, which means 40% CDR brings it down to 60 seconds - with this item, it could become as short as 50 seconds. It's still difficult to assess the potential abuse cases, but its price should gate early abuses and make it a good 3rd/4th item pickup.

#Broadening Diversity

Last, but not least, there's a very important part of support builds that sees zero variance - and that is item 2049 Sightstone. Increasing the health chunk granted by the item by 250 is nice, but it's the perfect place to introduce some niche builds that could utilize underused summoner spells. Take an example:

NEW ITEM: Sapphire Sightstone
Recipe: item 2049 Sightstone + item 1027 Sapphire Crystal + 350 g (total cost: 1600 g)
+200 health
+200 mana
Passive - Ward Refresh: Holds 5 charges and refills upon visiting the shop.
Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place a Stealth Ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. A player may only have 3 Stealth Wards on the map at one time.
Passive - Summoner's Insight: Your summoner spell {{summoner:2}} Clairvoyance has its cooldown reduced by 25%.

In this shape, this Sightstone upgrade behaves very similar to the item 3278 Distortion boots enchantment. It might bring back the underpowered summoner spell or just open up other possibilities for support builds.

NEW ITEM: Emerald Sightstone
Recipe: item 2049 Sightstone + item 1006 Rejuvenation Bead + item 1006 Rejuvenation Bead + 390 g (total cost: 1600 g)
+200 health
+12 health regeneration
Passive - Ward Refresh: Holds 5 charges and refills upon visiting the shop.
Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place a Stealth Ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. A player may only have 3 Stealth Wards on the map at one time.
Passive - Summoner's Resolve: Your summoner spell summoner 7 Heal has its cooldown reduced by 25%.

Similar, but different effect: other summoner spells and health regeneration.

Ruby Sightstone could be altered in a similar way to synergise with summoner spell {{si|Ignite}} and there could be anpother stone for {{si|Exhaust}}, but I feel like those spells aren't particularly underused.

#Summary

  • Shurelya's Reverie as a standalone item
  • Every gold generation item gets two upgrades: one passive and one active
  • Aegis of the Legion and Locket of the Iron Solari get an easier build path
  • New team oriented items for tanks: Runic Bulwark and Arcane Helix
  • Sightstone gets two alternative upgrades

Feel free to comment on these concepts. Next episode will revolve around mage items such as item 3165 Morellonomicon, item 3023 Twin Shadows, item 3056 Ohmwrecker, item 3060 Banner of Command and item 3152 Will of the Ancients. After that, there's a huge fighter item overhaul in the works.

Thanks for reading, and feel free to join me in theorycrafting!

41 Comments

Footie 1173/14/2014, 4:50:48 PM2 votes

i love the thoughts, however i concur with many people saying visage would make fiddle and swain absolutely rediculous, how about having it an active that you have to channel for 2 seconds then allies get the buff for 5 seconds or so, that way its not abused too much, has a cooldown and must be used stratigicly too late in a fight and your team is dead too early and it wont really do anything while the enemy team can just back off for 5 seconds then reengage, all in all execellent thoughts

rastarogue3/13/2014, 8:08:56 PM2 votes

It may just be me, but the formatting here is terrible and makes it so I can't follow things. Fix that and I will fully read and comment.

EDIT: I tried to read it any way, looks like good thoughts, but a lot of the champion and item tags don't seem to have worked correctly, so I'm having trouble figuring out what you are specifically referring to in many sentences.

FFirebrandd3/14/2014, 3:25:29 AM2 votes

Alright so I'll share my thoughts.

  1. Love that your suggestions give item 3067 some new items to build into.

  2. I want to see Shurelya's come back. It bugged me to no end that Talisman had that active but no tank stats.

  3. Innervating Locket. It isn't a bad idea but it seems very Janna ultish and I dislike items with actives that can be easily compared to champ abilities. Also why I dislike Frost Queen's new active but moving on...

  4. New Talisman passive, Love the force multiplier for healing champs. Honestly utility needs more force multipliers.

  5. item 2049 changes. Variety isn't a bad thing but buffs to summoner spells probably isn't the way to go. Also you didn't address the worst part about sightstones. Their absolute garbage slot efficency, which is the reason that no one besides supports ever buy the things.

Aeolian Melodies3/13/2014, 9:23:30 PM2 votes

There's one thing that you mustn't forget, it's that Riot seems to be killing auras, slowly but surely. You do have some good ideas in there, the problem is that a lot of those items are auras, and I think "more powerful auras" is the last thing Riot wants atm.

Bulwark and Aegis got nerfed last season (MR disappeared, Bulwark disappeared and the upgrade became Locket), Soul Shroud got deleted, WOTA got deleted, Abyssal Scepter's aura got deleted, Soraka lost her MR aura passive, Sona's auras were nerfed countless times (and she's the aura support!), etc.

I don't like Shurelya not being tailor-made for supports (not building out gp10 is huge, it's always, always been built from gp10), as it is an item that provides an active that is very instinctive and beneficial on a support, and it was an item named after a (former) Rioter who was a support player (helped rework Sona too).

I personally don't think that Talisman is OP, it's actually the item that gives the least gold when used at its maximum potential, however the Spellthief line makes you take risks for your gold (either attacking a champion or a structure), and Relic Shield is very hard to use if you're a ranged support (no execute), and if you're a melee support it might not be fun to use either if the enemy has, say, Cait who pokes you half of your HP when you go take the cannon for your ADC. Talisman is undeniably safer.

Personally when I opt for the Coin, I don't think "sweet, dat gold" (I play mostly ranged supports and would gain more gold from the Spellthief line) or "sweet, dat regen" (because let's be honest it's pretty bad now), I think about that active I want to have, along with my 20% CDR. The income is like 1k gold in a long game. The other two items would give me more (assuming I can use them at their max potential ofc). I think that the last patch did a good job at kicking the Talisman in the nuts to make the other 2 options more attractive, the regen stats were seriously hit and the gold gain was lowered too.

I do think that SS needs more upgrade paths (I think they're working on it, too) but I'm not a huge fan of lowering the CD on CV and Heal... not because I think that'd made them OP but because I don't think it's going to be worth it, Exhaust or Ignite are just too valuable to have especially for early fights in lane and especially in a meta where the ADC takes no offensive summoner spells, those SS upgrades wouldn't make me pack CV or Heal (and believe me when I say I used to absolutely love CV but I just can't pack it anymore, it's begging to get raped bot lane), I'd still go for the Ruby SS for extra HP and no summoner spell help.

brunoais3/18/2014, 2:28:03 PM1 votes

The main thing that I'm against is the Shard of True Ice. Here's my thought:
Both the support and the tank are champions that usually put themselves in places where they would be killed instead of the support. One of the main things that happen to me as a support like soraka, Lulu, etc... is calling all of the enemy's attention towards me and forcing them to believe that I'm the main threat while the adc is just something left over over there (while he's the one doing most of the damage) leading me, usually, to die while the adc lives another day.

That item will make those kinds of situation (very common with pros) a bad idea. While it works with the champions that do the main damage like the adc's, mdc's, assassins, etc... It does not work with champions that almost die by default.

More about Shard of True Ice. I also think that it should have a lower AP and higher mana regen. That's just my opinion because champions that would start with that are champions that are there to do a lot of poking job and poking uses mana... A lot of mana...

I have some reservations about Arcane Helix but it may make sense... It is really worthwhile to test, no doubpt about that!

Sightstone ideas, nice! I like the concept. I wonder about how real it actually is, though... Anyway, they are better than the current options.

I'm curious about Soul Shroud, though. It is a very interesting idea. From a power standpoint, it is a weak item to have but from a spell spam POV it is a very interesting item to have. It's all about the available slots.

TheRealCoxinator3/13/2014, 5:56:09 PM1 votes

I love this and also think that all they need to do in order to bring back WoA is to give it the old spellvamp aura.

MIGUELbM NA3/21/2014, 3:44:24 AM1 votes

I believe that your Arcane Helix could be stupidly overpowered on singed and even ryze. Think of it this way, singed is a champion that stacks mana, life and resistances. In late game, when he uses his ultimate he will often be so tanky that the regen will be almost unnoticeable, which is good IMO. Add this new item to the mix along with spirit visage, singed will be immortal, he just has to retreat, ult and channel for 10 seconds and will be almost at full life again. Besides, the mana consumption of the item would be almost nullified by the mana regen of the ultimate. Top it off with the new talisman of ascension on a support or singed himslef and he will have limitless sustain.

Forgot to mention that singed's passive combined with the item would mean even more health is regenerated

On the ryze front, Ryze stacks mana, life and resistances just like singed, but his mana adds to his damage, this means that a fed ryze, which right now is tanky enough with frozen hearth and RoA, will have another item to become tankier and deal more damage. It could even replace SpellVamp on ryze as a source of sustain.

Finally I think the evolution becomes unbalanced, let's say you only want to heal yourself for whatever reason (your team got killed and you escaped with little health, you are still in lane and are low on life or whatever else you think of) you'd be spending double the amount of mana without a reason, I suggest that the mana cost scales with the amount of allies within range instead of a flat increase.

Mandaari3/13/2014, 11:46:08 PM1 votes

TBH I skimmed after a bit and read the TL;DR, but I think what I'm going to say is applicable.

I'm not a fan of any item based solutions for supports for a couple big reasons.

  1. I dislike an item being valued over the support's kit. Talisman and old Aegis were my big offenders here. Regardless of who you're playing you can still give a sivir ult to your entire team.

  2. Item based solutions mean you always have to buy those items in order to access the solution. This applies to junglers too. I'd so much rather see Riot fix the underlying mechanic that causes the problem than have a band-aid thrown on.

I posted a thread on GD about a week ago detailing what I don't like and how I'd go about fixing it if you're interested.

Firesage Demon3/14/2014, 2:54:47 PM1 votes

The main thing about this I want is Shurelia's as a seperate item

Kuroi863/15/2014, 6:15:51 PM1 votes

I'm glad to see Runic Bulwark making a return, not as strong as before, but it still looks impressive and will likely be a must buy on most of my tanks.

I'm very much looking forward to trying out Arcane Helix, it's going to make top lane a lot easier against high poke champs that try to shut me out.

Oh and Will of the Ancients, Deathfire Grasp, Soul Shroud. You have just sent Vladamir into the overpower section. xD