@Morello, what to expect from Soraka in 4.9?

Canastus·May 29, 2014·17 votes·1,835 views

First of all, I'm very glad you actually took your time to respond to all those questions in my last thread (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/HsnUWEuK-morello-its-really-time-for-that-soraka-rework) and even confirming a rework for later this year. But as we all know, these things take time - up to six months maybe.

I'm seriously wondering how you're planning to deal with Soraka until the rework has arrived, you couldn't possibly consider letting her decay for an undetermined amount of time. So far I haven't seen a single mention of Soraka for the patch 4.9 forecast so naturally I've come to expect the worst.

You must admit, what you've done to her in 4.8 was extreme. We're dealing with a champion here who has lost any remaining viability, a living testament to an ongoing series of merciless gutting. But let me try to explain the situation to you and how you may be able to bridge the time until the rework is finished.

First of all, on the topic of imminent changes - I've seen what you had in store for the PBE. Sure, it may seem okay that you're putting 5 more percent on the cdr-effect of her Q (thus raising it to 10% cdr at rank 1, capping at 15%) to help Support Soraka BUT it's still less than the 17% which you originally promised. There's hardly a reason to level Q beyond rank 1 due to the pitiful scaling on the bonus.

We're still stuck with massive mana-costs from having to use Q twice as much and her E-poke being incredibly cost-inefficient. It literally deals as much damage as her nerfed starcall BUT is only limited to a single target while costing almost twice as much. Most of the time her silence doesn't even work since the enemy-ability goes off anyway.

Why hasn't this been fixed yet? Back then it was kind of tolerable since it was a FREE ability but now it has entirely lost any viability. Please, at least consider cutting the cost by half but make it scale with each rank. I don't see any other way to fix this ability right now.

Also let me do some math for you: the old poke-rotation (one Q and E) used to cost 30 mana in total, now you have to pay 110 (!) mana just to deal the same amount of damage. Also let's not forget that you're required to stick around longer just to get off the second Q to make up that sum. And that's just the cost at rank 1. That's already the cost of an entire heal wasted on mere interaction with the other player.

You can't simply remove the damage from her kit and expect her to be healthy afterwards - the consequence is actually the opposite of what you've hoped for. She's even more passive now since she can't fight ANYONE now without using up the entirety of her mana-pool. You need to do something, as soon as possible.

The least you could do is reduce her mana costs or give her back the damage on her Q while adding a damage-reduction to minions/creeps to weaken her solo lane-performance. Infact that change would even be healthy to Support Soraka since the risk of taking cs from your adc would be reduced drastically while dealing actual damage without being a mere healbot anymore who's plagued by overbearing mana-costs.

I seriously hope we may see some of those changes in 4.9 so we may get to play Soraka again without feeling almost entirely useless.

35 Comments

Adrian UmbraMay 29, 20146 votes

What frustrates me most about the change his how much harder the nerfs hit support Soraka as opposed to solo lane. Higher mana consumption means little to Soraka once she picks up a chalice (unless she's ranking up her UNGODLY expensive heal), but supports aren't going to pick that up early due to needing a second level gold generation item and Sightstone more. Sure, she'll get it eventually. But she'll suffer before "eventually" comes around.

Adding insult to injury, the "compensation" was almost exclusively aimed at those who level Starcall first. Who does that? Not support Soraka, especially with the damage nerfs. While the OP is pushing hard for changes NOW and she honestly should not have been hit this hard in the first place though, I don't think they're going to knee-jerk reaction buff her either. They'll probably spend at least twice as long thinking about her buffs as they did her nerfs.

But if we end up with another Eve situation (waiting over a year for a rework on an intentionally destroyed champion), I don't think the playerbase is going to be very happy.

CanastusMay 31, 20143 votes

Her current win-rate has dropped to 41% yesterday. That's literally on Urgot levels of badness.

There's no denying it, this nerf has entirely destroyed Soraka. Meanwhile champions like Braum or Kayle continue to sit at a 55% win-rate without any nerfs on the horizon.

Or let's take Nidalee for example who's at least as problematic as Soraka with her zero risk/high reward-approach and seemingly infinite sustain. Naturally she's the topic of rework but at least she doesn't get the nerfbat until hers is done (and they seem to care a lot more about her whereas Soraka has been waiting for almost 2 years now). So why is Soraka an exception to this?

WolfeurMay 29, 20142 votes

If you are concerned about Soraka's rework, I'd like to suggest you to see my rework idea, which I posted on the community. This link will direct you to the last version I wrote in the topic. This is not exactly about the subject but since you seem to like Soraka, I'd like your feedback on it.

CanastusMay 29, 20141 votes

It's rather hard to imagine how your kit would work out since it's strictly based on theory, often things work out differently ingame. Your rendition makes Soraka seem quite competent at healing but at the cost of her damage-output which has been reduced immensively.

Your version of starcall appears to be incredibly weak compared to what she has right now. In overall I fear she's too fragile, hardly capable of tanking damage due to the constant danger she's in thus making her heals less effective.

WolfeurMay 29, 20141 votes

I understand what you are afraid of with my conception of Soraka. She has always been THE healer in league of legends and I wanted her to be more support-oriented. I indeed reduced her damage because it just (in my opinion) absolutely didn't fit with her identity and lore. But remember that this problem is just a matter of numbers. What I did with this kit is offering better CC, some buffs and a gameplay in two steps: First, actively poke the enemy, stacking the mark and then choose between supporting her allies (by heals and buffs) from behind , where she's safe and attacking her enemies in the front line, dealing some damage and rooting them.

This is a complete change of how she works. We got Braum who protects in the front as a tank, but now we will have a protector who actively acts from behind.

Adrian UmbraMay 29, 20141 votes

Morello, being someone who worked on Guild Wars for a bit, is a little leery of having a strong healer in the league. If the sustain is too strong, it just turns the lane into a game of whack-a-mole for the AD carries.

Your rework takes away her burst healing, removes her self heal, relegates her harass to a pretty weak CC that is almost worse than the silence she used to have, relies almost entirely on her getting stacks on people with her Q (as a squishy utility mage/support?), which isn't going to happen very often, and if you didn't absolutely nuke her damage, would have made her even stronger as a solo laner. As a support Soraka player since season 1, no. Absolutely no.

This isn't "standing behind as a protector." This is standing behind your carry and doing NOTHING to be able to protect them, NOTHING to hurt your opponents, and solving NONE of her current issues, from mana, to range, to squishiness.

WolfeurMay 30, 20141 votes

The fact that the burst healing is gone is not a problem, we're talking about a ADC attacking yours, and an ADC doesn't have a big burst. And you still have Wish to instantly heal. And she can heal herself, I don't see why you thought you couldn't. Root isn't a weak CC and is certainly more powerful than a silence. Have you ever seen an ADC say "oh no, they picked Soraka, how can I do damage if she silences me?". The root has the advantage to be good against every champion. Furthermore, my Starcall has a small range, enough to let her be as safe as a poking Sona (and don't tell me she's not squishy). And if people were able to spam Starcall in a duolane, they'll still be able to. The big problem with Soraka is that she's more useful in a sololane than in Support. But squishiness has never been a problem, and mana and range are just matter of numbers... I'm sorry, but heal, buff, root, debuff and poke (yes, there is poke, just not as good as before) is not doing nothing.

CanastusMay 31, 20142 votes

I'm quite shocked at the lack of red responses so far.

I can't believe they actually had the will to cause such tremendous damage to her just to discard her entirely afterwards. She's literally comparable to Urgot now, not even dedicated Soraka mains who used to play her for YEARS can make this rotten goat corpse work anymore.

Nowadays you WILL get reported for playing her. What has Soraka done to you to merit such a cruel fate, Riot? This is not how you should approach a rework. You need to give something back to her, there's no way around it.

eztarg3tMay 31, 20141 votes

I remember your previous post about Soraka and they responded to that. I don't think they will respond to this. Read it yes but respond? Look, I hate what they did to soraka but give Riot a little breathing room Soraka isn't the only champ they are trying to take care for. They also said that they are looking into her now so just wait a little bit. Probably after 4.9? They know they messed up Soraka so just give them some time to fix this and stop trying to guilt them into responding thats just rude.

CanastusJun 1, 20143 votes

You call that rude? What about the fate of her entire playerbase? All those people who cared about their champion and invested so much time into an unviable pick just to figure out a new way to play them, to see all of their hard work gone?

Soraka wasn't even broken, she was mildly annoying on sololanes at best (she never went above her 50% win-rate) neither was she used as support due her total lack of cc and damage. She only had this one niché, that's it. She already lacked any mobility or peel, it's beyond me why people didn't simply gank her nonstop. No, instead they demanded a public execution - well, they've finally got it. Soraka is dead.

Soraka is incredibly gold-hungry since her kit and mana-costs are downright awful, no support-income can make up for her insane handicaps. Those nerfs have hit Support Soraka even harder since she's entirely unusable now. Right now she's the worst champion this game has ever seen, I'm dead serious. Anyone who even considers leaving her in this pitiful state truly lacks compassion.

eztarg3tJun 1, 20141 votes

And I completely agree, I hate what they have done to her. She was the first Champion I ever bought with lp and the first champ I bought a skin for. It hurts me to see them do this to her because I loved using her, she was probably one of the few champions I could bring to pvp with confidence.

Morello said in your previous post about Soraka that she was in the works this year. I was pretty damn happy someone else besides me was worried about Soraka and was posting about it on the forums. And what are you doing right now?

Your just repeating things you have already said to which I have already agreed for the most part. You are going to providing awareness to being annoying. You should not be making demands from riot every time you post. And they should not be forced to reply to every single one of your posts. I agree with you that what they did to Soraka was an atrocity but they are aware of the damage they have done and are working on a solution. But they can't stop everything on what they are doing for the sake of Soraka.

You have to give these guys some breathing room, I can guarantee you that you are not the only person complaining about their favorite champ. SO you have a chance here to bring awareness without being annoying. How would you have riot respond to your post as? Like "I see that we are hurting some champions that this guy likes but he is also aware of predicament and at least he is being nice about it." or "Oh great, we seem to have pissed off another part of our fan base." if I was in riot I would prefer the first one.

I'm not saying this to stop you from posting ever again or for you to shut up about it. I'm just saying before you post think about what is going on within riot. What things are they having to prioritize. Try to put yourself in their shoes. Think about the pressure there is to bring out a champion, bring in a new skin, balance the game, and who knows what else is going on. Just give them time to respond and just try to be courteous to them. I want to bring my Soraka back into pvp but I don't want it to come at the price of everything else.

CanastusJun 1, 20142 votes

I have every right to be upset about what's going on and it's my good right to voice my concerns, even negative feedback is still feedback. At least I made some proper suggestions on how to fix her while stating my critique. I want them to realize how important this matter is, I dare you to find any other champion who's in a worse spot than Soraka right now. So much for setting priorities. She deserves an urgent treatment, maybe even a hotfix. The statistics don't lie, neither does the experience of many other players who had the displeasure of playing Soraka in 4.8.

Let's take Kassadin for example, he instantly recieved follow-up tweaks whenever they took too much from him or went overboard with some changes - the fact is, him and many other champions recieve special treatment whereas Soraka's plight is of lesser interest to Riot. But we're all too familiar with their history of dislike for this goat, it's borderline unprofessional at this point.

I'm aware of their efforts to bring out a rework for her but I refuse to wait for six more months just to see one of my favorite champions left in the dust, remaining useless and the focus of ongoing ridicule. What's even more important right now is a way to bridge this awful wait. What's stopping them from applying some of the suggestions they've recieved so far? I haven't seen a single attempt on the PBE since then.

Also if you think I'm overreacting, you clearly haven't seen the Lee Sin or LeBlanc players and THEIR reaction to nerfs/guttings. At least they were capable of influencing them, I fear Soraka doesn't have the open support that she needs to do the same.

I couldn't care less what others think of me, what matters is the cause I'm standing for and you know I'm right. This is merely a smurf account which I use to discuss balancing issues, nothing more. There's nothing for me to lose, only to gain.

Linna ExcelJun 3, 20141 votes

At this point I have little confidence in Riot to get Soraka right in a rework.

However they probably aren't talking because there might not be anything for them to talk about riot now. If they are just testing things out, iterating, seeing what sticks to the wall, etc. I'd love to see them talk about the process going on behind the scenes about what they are trying, and about is and isn't working, but I'm not getting my hopes up for that.

Frankly as much as I love the champ, I realize three things:

The champ I loved is probably gone for good. I've just accepted that. I realize when they are done with her, she's probably going to be an ultra passive support-only champ with no ability to go mid/top, no waveclear, no hard CC, and likely no second heal.
They have 110 other champs or so to worry about and can't focus just on one.
They've only got a limited time to talk on the boards, it's not like they've got a dedicated CM who can spend all day keeping up on the status of every champ to talk about them.

Linna ExcelMay 29, 20141 votes

I wouldn't expect anything for 4.9 because I haven't seen any PBE changes listed for her. Maybe in 4.10 they'll do something to get her out of the urgot tier.

Or they could just be waiting a month or two to see how players change their games around the mana issues.

CanastusMay 29, 20142 votes

It doesn't take a genius to determine the likeliness of Soraka ever being viable again in her current state. It'd be more than irresponsible to 'spontaneously' forget about her in the next patch.

I don't see how anyone with a support-income could even think about itemizing around their handicaps without massively delaying their support-build.

Soraka has been reduced to a liability for her own team, she's THAT bad now. She's literally unable of supporting without giving up too much.

Linna ExcelMay 29, 20141 votes

Listen, I agree with you that her current state isn't that great. But they made those changes because they felt solo lane soraka was too strong and in the solo lane, she rushes Athene's.

They probably felt that a nerf to her support was fine as long as it brought the mid laner under control.

Penguin EclipseMay 29, 20141 votes

I'd be surprised if they touched her again in the next couple months and I wouldn't be surprised if they left her alone entirely until her rework lands. They simply don't want her to be viable in the solo lane and the fact that it permanently breaks support Soraka seems to have been deemed acceptable collateral damage. Otherwise they would never have nerfed her E, which support Soraka depended on much more than solo lane Soraka. Maybe they even want support Soraka to be damaged. Her % picked rate and winrate have tanked. The less people that play her, the less they have to worry about people complaining when they rework her.

I agree, it completely sucks. It is to the point where I feel I deserve to be reported if I take her in ranked because picking her is literally assisting the enemy team. The one exception is if you are duoing with the adc and have a plan going in, but otherwise she is of little use to anyone.

CanastusMay 29, 20142 votes

I dare them to neglect her even further, the reaction from the community won't be so kind. If they know what's good for them, they better start to listen.

Linna ExcelJun 3, 20142 votes

Her % picked rate and winrate have tanked. The less people that play her, the less they have to worry about people complaining when they rework her.

I tried mentioning that once and Morello thought it was funny that I felt they did this on purpose. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they just took things a step too far, but I can't completely do that.

LneacxMay 29, 20141 votes

Soraka's damage rotation costs so much mana now because the combination of E / Q means that 1) Your target can't dodge any of your damage, and 2) They can't fight back because they're silenced. Both of these mean that Soraka's lane harass comes without counterplay or risk of retaliation, so to tone this power down Riot decided to gate it with heightened manacosts.

That's my interpretation, in any case. Until Soraka no longer has a guaranteed, long-duration silence, she can't be allowed to spam damage. Otherwise it's impossible to trade against her.

Linna ExcelMay 29, 20143 votes

They can fight back with AA and the silence only lasts a second or so early on. That's not much longer than most stuns.

Once that silence is up, she's immobile and lacks any sort of burst or kill potential. You almost had to sit there and let her kill you before the nerf.

CanastusMay 29, 20143 votes

Too bad her silence is entirely useless on botlane since the adc merely has to auto-attack you just to make you lose the trade. Putting an additional cost on it without even increasing the damage is a total slap in the face. Combined with the Q nerfs her performance has dropped EXTREMELY, I dare say she's the worst champion in the game right now.

LneacxMay 30, 20141 votes

True. Silences don't stop autos.

But what Riot's worried about are the mages who get hard-countered by Soraka because of the silence.

Sidenote: Soraka has a heal in her kit. Why should she win trades, if she can already reverse what damage you manage to drop onto her? A heal means that you should lose straight-up trades.

Penguin EclipseMay 30, 20142 votes

No, they really are not worried about that at all. Otherwise they would have nerfed her silence duration which they did not. Not to mention the fact that midlane Sorakas do not level her E much until after the laning phase has ended so the silence duration is relatively short. In the bottom lane, the silence is a non-issue no matter how leveled it is.

TemestoklesJun 3, 20141 votes

So Kayle should lose straight up trades? :D Soraka's damage is consistent and low. Yes, she can heal back up. However you only die if you stay close to her for a 2 long time. Forcing soraka to heal WILL wear down her manapool, forcing her out of lane. Her damage output is nowhere near to that of the other mages.

The silence that you claim leaves mages "unable" to fight back results in 1 additional q that soraka might be able to spam. Apparently that was too much for most :S

Catastrophic37May 30, 20143 votes

Lol this isnt true at all. An adc isnt silenced lol

Nickolas PhageMay 30, 20141 votes

I don't like how you demand changes to her, as if Riot owes you something. Seems kinda obstinate :s.

CanastusMay 30, 20142 votes

Apparently you're not familiar with dedicated fans. You'd be surprised to see to what lengths passionate people can go, LoL is no exception to that. And I'm sure Riot's staff shares the same passion for this game, otherwise they wouldn't have made it their job.

What has happened to Soraka is simply terrible, there's no denying it.

Catastrophic37May 30, 20141 votes

Raka is a retarded solo lane idea. She is a support. Who cares if it can be done. A car can drive on railroad tracks, but that doesn't mean you do it. Tired of seeing the idiots arguing how viable or doable it is, then costing a team a ranked game. Anything can be done in bronze against a moron enemy.

WasaboMay 30, 20141 votes

I think they should rework soraka so she becomes the sriracha pizza horse where she is a star that rides on the pizza horse and she throws munky banans at enemies and she is from the freiljord and killed sejuanai

SilverclawJun 2, 20141 votes

I feel like they could make some changes to buff support soraka - she's always been the support I hate playing with the most (outside of niche support picks like Teemo). However, with Soraka's current kit, they have to be wary of buffing solo lane Soraka - before her nerfs, she could jump into the mid lane and counter virtually everyone and hard counter every melee mid (fast lane pushing w/ ramping damage, silence).

However, I don't feel like removing her mana costs is the way to do it (solo lane soraka becomes a problem again), and I'm unsure of how else it could work without investigation.

MarthianJun 2, 20141 votes

To be honest, I didn't like the changes either. But I played a few games (with minor item changes) and she's still good (her heal is a lot better now since now you only need to Q say 2 times instead of 3, which can be a huge deal.)

Start of game, I build item 3303 2 item 2044 , then first back item 3098 , then item 2049 . After that, my core build is item 3027 item 3151 item 3158 item 3143 item 3174 item 2045 . I sell as soon as I need the slot since by then, I've made back the cost of FF and then some (in addition to selling it) as well as the boost in Soraka's poor early game poke (with support runes/masteries.)

The end result is she's a decent tank, she almost never runs out of mana, and she has decent AP to boost her heals (and a lesser extent: damage.)

CanastusJun 3, 20142 votes

How exactly are you going to pay for all this stuff if you're restricted to a mere support-income? You're going to experience hell on earth during early to midgame just to avoid feeding, she's that weak. Your heals are literally the only viable thing in her kit, everything else has become unusable and a massive liablity to your laning performance due to crippling mana-costs.

Before you get that chalice you'll be already outside of laning-phase. Well guess what, THEIR adc is 3/0 and you essentially lost the game for your team because you couldn't do a single thing after blowing your heal. You're practically asking your adc to go into a 2v1. It's quite ironic really, Soraka being a support who can't support at all.

MarthianJun 4, 20141 votes

I have never had any of those issues. Her E and Q barely does any damage in the laning phase anyways. The best use of Mana I find for Soraka is using W and E to help stay in lane. Q and E still both still have their utility in getting Heal faster and preventing ability follow-up. She may not have killing potential like Leona or Thresh, but she has staying power, and I've managed to hold off against Leona and Thresh lanes, who supposedly counter her.

By the time the laning phase ends, that's when I start going OOM anyways. I don't spam her abilities in lane, that's just asking for trouble. The only time most games I've had the other ADC get ahead is either jungle ganked us or our adc keeps focusing the tank.

EDIT: I'm in Silver III. I cannot speak for games in any ELO above, but that is my personal experience. The three ranked Soraka games I've played since the patch hit, I've won bot 2 out of 3 of those games (the third one was because the adc kept focusing Thresh rather than Lucian.)