Stop Nerfing healing (a rant from a Sona Lover)

CarbonWyre·Nov 20, 2013·13 votes·950 views

I've mained Sona forever and beyond and it already hurts enough to heal. The mana cost eats your pool like it's nothing and the heal is PATHETIC and now Riot has dropped it even more. To bring her in line you don't need to nerf it, it needs to get buffed by around 30 health per level of spell to make it even slightly mana efficient. I understand Riot HATES healing with a burning passion fueled by the endless pools of money. But seriously, taking the fun away by nerfing it again is just sad and pathetic on Riots part.

25 Comments

HellioningNov 21, 20136 votes

Oh, but it's ok, because there's a .04 ratio for the speed increase on her e! You know, the ability you always level last and can barely see it most of the team!

Meanwhile, the enemy's support annie has the same amount of gold as you do, and proceeds to explode you and your carry in a teamfight with stunbear plus her w.

I don't think they quite realize how this is going to affect support choices.

Felix CuIpaNov 21, 20134 votes

Agreed completely! They have killed all the supports. People will find new supports to play in stead, They would rather have a real champ anyways, an additional damage or real cc champ, they would be better in team fights anyways,

Luner HunterNov 20, 20133 votes

yeah right like they will allow sona to be anything more than a useless champ that will never be played again PERIOD after S4.... shes underpowered as a healer/aura buffer as it is and shes a half decent mage when you go full AP but now they are even busting that... basically what they are saying is FUCK Sona and everyone who use to/does main Sona.... I use to main Sona hardcore from around lvl 12 to LITTERALY lvl 30 i played almost no one other than Sona. after i saw what they planed to do with Sona i no longer wish to get her arcade skin since I WILL NEVER USE HER IN S4 DUE TO THE NERFBAT BEATTING SHE WILL BE SUBJECTED TO in the name of "bringing her into line with other supports..." BULLSHIT other REAL supports were and will be complete shit and by saying REAL supports are like Soraka and maybe Lulu WHOS WHOLE REASON for being put into the game was to heal (not lulu) and backup their ADC (and yes that means supports need to CC AND do dmg to help kite and get kills for their ADC) with no heal, shit auras, and no dmg you might aswell SOLO LANE bot if a S4 Sona wants to support >.> I've already decided in S4 due to the nerfs and the masteries changes i will be running Volibear and Leona pretty much exclusively as my support champs since apparently this S4 "being about the supports" is complete BS its more about "nerfing the supports to the point only AP mids and tanks will ever play that role"

TL;DR Nerfing the fuck outta Sona again WILL end in ANOTHER UNUSED CHAMP that gets to sit next to other champs like Evelynn Galio Janna Urgot Vladimir Soraka under the rug cuz riot doesn't love them anymore!

Luner HunterNov 21, 20133 votes

New Patchnotes... I will be putting my comments in []

Sona

Summary: With new gold flowing into Sona's support coffers, it turns out Crescendo and Hymn of Valor would rock just a little too hard. We've reduced the ability power ratio on both, as well as adjusting the base heal amount of Aria of Perseverance at later ranks. She can still hit the high notes with her Power Chords, though, and we've added an AP ratio that'll allow Sona to scale better into the late game. Finally, the base activated speed boost of Song of Celerity has been slightly reduced, as it now scales its speed bonus with ability power.

Context: Our core focus with Sona is to take some power from her abilities to shift into her Power Chord and her Song of Celerity, which allows Sona's utility to scale into the late game while also ensuring her choice of Power Chord remains relevant at all stages.

Passive - Power Chord

Added a 0.2 Ability Power ratio to the damage of Power Chord – Staccato
Added a 0.02 Ability Power ratio to the damage reduction of Power Chord - Diminuendo
Added a 0.04 Ability Power ratio to the slow amount of Power Chord - Tempo

Q - Hymn of Valor

Ability Power ratio reduced to 0.5 (from 0.7)

[straight up nerf cuz what support needs dmg?]

W - Aria of Perseverance

Base heal amount reduced at later ranks to 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (from 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120)

[yeah cuz her heal wasnt USLESS ENOUGH AS IT IS]

E - Song of Celerity

Active speed boost now scales at +1% movement speed per 50 Ability Power (0.02 AP Ratio)
Active speed boost changed to 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 12% (+0.02 Ability Power) (from a flat 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 / 14%)

[who the hell used this as their active aura EVER? it was either Valor or Perseverance... nerf the usefull abilities and buff the useless one? GREAT IDEA RITO!]

R - Crescendo

Ability Power ratio reduced to 0.5 (from 0.8)

[yeah.. take a fourth of her ults dmg away... again what support needs dmg amirite? Sona's poke/ult/passive was an AWESOME set of abilities that could setup kills for the ADC/Team but are now completely useless in this update]

djumpNov 21, 20133 votes

The reason they reduced the base values is because they are expecting you to get a lot more AP with the increased gold you will be getting. The AP ratio did not change. The base value is the same early game, and by the time you get up to where the base value is reduced, you should have enough AP that you are probably healing for more than before. With the support changes of increased gold this season, this is not a nerf, it's a late game change to accomodate the expectation of more gold. The turning point at max rank is 80 more ap than you would have needed from before to heal for the same. That's one needlessly large rod, and i'm pretty sure they're expecting you to be able to get more than that with the increased gold flow.

As for the reduction in damage ratio on q and r, same thing. Before the ratio was artificially high for a support role because they were expecting you to not actually get much ap. the change is just to bring things in line with the increased gold and thus AP that they were seeing in their play tests with the support changes. This, and their stated goal:

Our core focus with Sona is to take some power from her abilities to shift into her Power Chord and her Song of Celerity, which allows Sona's utility to scale into the late game while also ensuring her choice of Power Chord remains relevant at all stages.

I don't think her actual damage will be reduced because she'll be getting more ap, but even if it is, as they said, they are shifting her power into utility. The new ap ratios on power cord effects are a huge buff.

I don't think sona is being nerfed at all. You have to look at it in context of the season 4 changes.

Luner HunterNov 21, 20135 votes

and why would a support be building AP items if your BUILDING SUPPORT ITEMS? they just killed AP sona why would i want to run a now failing build? WHY WOULD I WANT TO BUILD FUCK TON OF AP JUST TO GET BACK TO WHERE SHE WAS? WHY would i want to have slow scaling insted of DMG scaling? IF sona can hit them with her slow her ADC CAN HIT THEM TOO since she has a shorter AA range and ALL her powerchorded abilities are attached to her AA... what your saying is here look through this broke ass kaleidoscope and see the same warped picture you and riot do... a NERF is a NERF even when its called "shifting power" did she lose AP ratios all over? HELL YEAH! did she lose dmg and through that UTILITY they claimed to be adding to her? YEP! will you be able to build 6 AP items and still be a good support? FUCK NO! will your team grief the FUCK out of you for building AP items INSTED OF SUPPORT ITEMS? FUCK YEAH! so whats being said is "any true support now has to build like an AP midlaner to be usefull except they wouldnt want to do that since support items would be a better choice FOR SUPPORTING THEIR TEAM"

but i guess that only makes sense to ppl who've main'd supports? *

djumpNov 21, 20133 votes

Have you read the extent to which they are changing things for support for this season? The reason you could only buy support items last season was because you had very little gold.

This season, you can still be the support items if you want, but they are changing a lot of things so you can get more gold so you can buy AP items in addition to what support stuff you would normally buy before. As I mentioned before, it's 1 single needlessly large rod that keeps you the same as you were before in heal. And you will end up doing more damage as well, because while the ratios were higher earlier, you were not buying nearly as much AP before either.

You will easily do as much heal and as much damage and still be able to buy the same support items AND MORE

You mention about not wanting more slow, but rather damage, and at the same time mention not wanting to buy ap, but rather buy "support items". This is a bit of a contradiction in my mind. What support items are you thinking of? Because I would think of items that either give defense to my team or let me slow more. With the AP ratio on the defensive power cord and the slow power cord, you get the same things I'd be looking for from support items buy getting AP: more defense and slow. But it's fine if you don't want to build much AP, you can still build just a little and probably still more support items than you could before and end up better off.

I can't really see what the downside is here, I think sona will be better at everything with the new changes as she will have much more gold to build items. I don't know if you're getting how much more gold they're expecting support to get. There are a lot more options in items/masteries for gold generation for supports. As well as the overhaul on the ward system meaning you won't have to spend nearly as much on vision. This is gonna be a really big change.

Luner HunterNov 21, 20134 votes

my point is NOT TO FORCE the build of AP items to GET BACK to where SHE WAS ALREADY AT and if you wanna SCALE SOMETHING SCALE THE DAMN Q not the USELESS E... lets look at it this way... take someone like vayne half her starting AD then proceed to half ALL HER SCALING TO DMG then give her movement speed and call it "shifting of power" same effective thing is happening with sona she** IS A SUPPORT AND A MAGE (something riot apparently forgot)** being stuffed into a SUPPORT ONLY role by fucking her ratios! fuck building a 1600 gold item that wont do shit for me mid/late game since it only builds into item 3089 item 3157 item 3128 which doesnt do ANYTHING for a support character at all srsly hourglass? deathfire? MAYBE deathcap but that thing is the FARTHEST thing possible from a first or 3rd purchase since if you want to build something AP itd be a item 3174 so you can get that "mana regen and CDR" that is apparently important enough to nerf sona for since her heal gets a "buff" cough bullshit coughcough with the ratio but a NERF on base stats... and srsly WHO THE FUCK USES THE E AS THEIR ACTIVE AURA????????

Luner HunterNov 21, 20132 votes

by the way i have bought AP items as Sona and carried matches because i could play well i never HAD TO buy support items i could always pick between SUPPORT OR AP you really aren't a good Sona player are you?

djumpNov 21, 20131 votes

One of the main points here is that by giving app scaling to support aspects of sona, it's not a choice between building ap for damage and support items for support. By building ap, you now get damage and supporting power. They found specifically in play testing that this was way TOO strong and had to tone it down to make sona fair.

Sure, maybe it's a nerf to ap mid carry sona, but it's an all around buff to normal sona. If you wanted to play an ap carry support you were better off with lux or annie or zyra anyway. Now they have given sona a unique direction of much more powerful support potential

djumpNov 21, 20132 votes

Again, you're missing the fundamental premise. You can't say anything about the changes without considering the increase in gold sona will have. It's all part of one big change. They are not asking sons to drop support and suddenly build only ap.

They are essentially saying "Hey, here is 3000 more gold, and if you spend 1600 of it at least on ap, you will have the same damage and heal add you did before and have 1400 gold left over. But if you spend all that on ap, you will do more damage than we want supports doing, because before your ratios were tuned assuming you don't build much ap. So we'll tune down the ratios and you will still do more damage than before but not as much as a mage. And in exchange, we'll make you better at the things supports do (cc and defense) as you build more ap too! "

I'll stress that last point again: dfg is useful on support sona now because they put ap ratios on utility. It's a fundamental change in paradigm that you have to make.

Luner HunterNov 21, 20132 votes

WHY DO I HAVE TO BUILD FUCKING AP IS THE GODDAMN QUESTION YOU DOLT! you have to be a complete moron not to understand... or you just dont give a fuck about supports and probably never main'd one yourself >.> either way your completely wrong =_= WHY would i want 20% more magic dmg on a sona thats gonna do 0 fucking damage? LET ME SPELL THAT OUT FOR YOU Z E R O F U C K I N G D M G ZERO so 20% more OF NOT A FUCKING THING is still 0 so DFG isnt even worth getting since they NERFED THE FUCK OUTTA HER DMG what part of that dont you got? NERF HER DMG MAKE HER BUY A FUCK TON OF AP TO GET BACK TO WHERE SHE WAS then get DFG as your what 5th 6th item? take current sona give her the same shit she'd be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER... but riot doesnt want a SUPPORT MAGE at all... what the FUCK is 1400 gold leftover from 3000 gonna do for me when that shit aint gonna do dick for my dmg or my heals since im still in the hole from the FUCKING NERF?????? only LATE LATE LATE game will sona even minorly do more dmg than my 2.5k masteries/runes/build sona and thats ONLY IF SHE CAN GET FUCKING BUILT cuz sure you get more GP/10, GP/5 but that isnt gonna give you the 3k+ you need in the ammount of time its needed to even match the current sona... the ONLY fucking thing they SHOULD HAVE DONE TO SONA is make the ap scaling on her W (her heal) higher! THATS IT! NOTHING ELSE! NOTTA! ZILCH! >.>

djumpNov 21, 20131 votes

Go read Robo the Pichu's reply to your thread. If you're still upset after that I don't know what to tell you. He has direct experience with the changes and is directly telling you it's a strong buff to sona overall.

If you are disappointed specifically that sona as a sustain healer is not being emphasized, that's a whole different issue. I can point you to several threads where rioters talk about how they think sustain healing is bad for the game if you want.

djumpNov 21, 20131 votes

Also, if you're not convinced by me, go check out Morello talking about this very subject in this tread from the normal forum

And by the way, when I said 3000 extra gold, apparently I was on the low side. Morello says 3000-6000 extra gold.

Cameryn KyreNov 21, 20133 votes

As a player who has main'd Sona since Season 1, Nami is the new, better Sona.

You need more skill to get the same amount of CC out of her in one burst, but she has great CC in her basic abilities and heal/harass in one convenient package. Honestly the only reason to pick Sona over Nami in this patch is for the flash/crescendo... And honestly if you're good enough to get picks with Aqua Prison and know how to lead and angle a good Tidal Wave... you won't miss Crescendo that much.

LadyLightSynNov 22, 20133 votes

Please save Sona and other supports.

The Divine HeirNov 21, 20132 votes

Having spent a good amount of time on PBE testing supports with the new and improved gold flow, I can say a couple things. The gold difference that supports get is HUGE! Not small. I was amazed at how much stronger supports felt now, even though I was playing them exactly the same as I did on live. When I started to try and play differently according to the changes, they were even stronger.

If they kept the base damages and ratios at the same level as they do now, then AP Sona will do close to or more damage then the mages who are made for damage, while still playing as a support. That means your team can now have two super powerful apc's without having to make a sacrifice. They have to sacrifice nothing to gain tremendous power! Because now instead of being specifically good at support, growing/protecting the adc, proving benefits to your team, and making plays, or being a mage who does a lot of damage, Sona can do both at the same time while losing none. That means she can do what a full-on mage does, at the same time as being a full-on support.

To keep her from being that insanely powerful, they needed to reduce some of her base and ratios.  But, because she has more gold then before, now she can afford regularly to get support items, supplemented by high ap items.  Riot must balance for how possible a champ COULD be too.

If building Sona one way was too strong, they have to nerf Sona respectively. It's just how it has to be, because if one way is too strong, that's how people are going to build it, which in the end hurts their item choices even more than what you are saying. Why? Because, they will know that obviously they are OP when they build this way, and it is more effective than building the other way too. Also, they might have pressure from their team if their team sees them not building the OP way, increasing toxicity (potentially).

I know it might at first seem it sucks that Sona's numbers are being hit, but in reality it's a lot more complicated than that. I can tell you that in the end, you still have plenty of choice in buying support items, and Sona should still feel a great deal stronger.

VexingRavenNov 28, 20131 votes

Zyra, Annie, Veigar, and Lux would all like a word with you.

silentloreNov 21, 20132 votes

i completely agree you literally destroyed SUPPORTS they are worthless i have alot of money in support characters and skins and i almost want to demand a refund because you RUINED MY CHARACTERS

FizCapNov 21, 20132 votes

I agree, I don't even want to play sona anymore. I main her as well.

R.I.P Sona

A Dancing GamerNov 27, 20132 votes

I feel that sona is currently the weakest of all the supports now against mage supports, since she has no trade power with her q bases being almost a none factor, one her abilities is a simply speed up, and her heal is weaker then soraka on a 7 sec based cd. Since she has no trade now zyra annie fiddlesticks, or any kill lane simply focus all there dmg on the ad carry and there is nothing sona can do with her kit to help soften trades or help with them even if the ad carry is out playing the one with the mage support. They seriously should just buff her base dmg but not let is scale well with ability power.

AkavaNov 21, 20131 votes

Buy a Tear and turn it into Archangel's. That makes your heal slightly stronger than Season 3 while giving you a ton of mana. That one item makes your heal slightly stronger while allowing you to keep going late game.

I love Tear on Sona.

hunnyflashNov 21, 20131 votes

Yes. They killed Supports. Because the old supports were shit and forced to play like only two different ways.

They are completely making a better game with these changes.

lol Sona is underpowered as a healer/buffer? What the hell are you guys smoking? She's one of the hands down, best supports in the game.

The gold changes are only going to make Supports stronger. They have to be nerfed somewhere or they'll be completely out of control.

I don't understand how this is such a difficult concept :/

CarbonWyreNov 22, 20131 votes

lol Sona is underpowered as a healer/buffer? What the hell are you guys smoking? She's one of the hands down, best supports in the game.

This is correct but extremely false at the same time. She is the best, but the best is a lot lower then it was in S1 when Sona still stood a chance in a lane.

ObalisNov 22, 20131 votes

I mained as sons as well. I have stopped playing her because its just not enough. She needs some kind of buff. Maybe some mana regen or less cost to her heal. It is killing her lol and the person she is supporting.