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Summoner spells need fixing or removal

Brainden··3 votes·1,165 views

Revive, Heal, Clarity and Clairvoyance are in desperate need of either. Their usage isn't even at the level of niche in competitive play.

Part of the problem is the omnipotence of Flash. When 90%+ of pro players take flash regardless of champion or lane you know there's a problem.

Spells need a buff, and Flash needs to be reworked mechanically to provide some counter-play.

16 Comments

RiotXelnath4 votes

I agree. FeralPony, Xypherous and I have been adjusting these lately.

Tortferngatr1 votes

Incidentally, how's ManWolfAxeBoss doing with the Dominion summoner spells? We had a big (eventually derailed) thread on Revive in the forums--know if he's doing anything with them right now?

daves3hd1 votes

Please just remove flash from the game already. It should have been done in pre-season 2. And it turns out to be the only answer for it, because look what happened. It's cooldown was nerfed twice, it's range has been nerfed. And still it's the superior pick by FAR.

The are you really going to nerf cooldown and range to a point where flash is just almost useless unless you are close to a tin wall like behind baron/dragon to flash over? I'm not sure this is where it needs to be either. The only counter to a good flash untill now has been flash it self. I don't think there is a "good" way to implement a "get out of jail free" card where the counterplay isn't that same card (given that some champs have gap closers like j4, vi, zed and zac, though that is their role. Maybe the fact that they can do it a bit too good is because they needed to do it because of flash)

PriorityOne1 votes

Flash makes the game better. The sheer number of great plays (offensive and defensive) it creates makes matches more fun to play and watch. Removing it would make the game worse.

daves3hd2 votes

It doesn't make the game better, imo. Let me explain my vision a bit. It creates the illusion it makes "great plays". While in fact we all know what's going to happen before it happens. You can predict almost every flash, and sure it can look cool when a malphite flashes over the jungle wall and ults an entire team or someone gets caught and flashes out just at the right moment. However these aren't "plays" these are just a result of what flash is. A get out of jail free card. In fact it doesn't add anything to the game or gameplay. Making plays is understanding positioning and awareness enough to make stuff happen. Not the opposite where someone just presses D/F and gets out.

So while at first flash seems like this amazing skill creating all kinds of plays. It's actually not creating anything because everyone is carrying the same skill, and it's a "get your way every X time when it comes from cooldown" (depending on your champ/role being kill target X or escape enemy X). Making plays would be understanding the game and enemy enough actually making a difference depending on your champ, team, role and skills.

Let me make one last example instead of just creating endless stories: Think of how often Zed players (lets not just look at lcs/diamond1) use their ult and/or shadow in situations to dive a priority target and have to flash out of turret or enemy team range. For a champ like Zed it means every time he has flash from cooldown he can kill almost anyone he wants and have a very high escape chance, purely because of flash. Sure it can win his team the teamifght, game, what ever. But this isn't what I would specify as "play" making a move within the champions utility and still have the same result would make the game much more based on knowing the limits and not "forcing" things to happen just because well flash will save all. For instance the tower dive can still be done with barrier allowing for Zeds survival and escape. But in a teamfight it's not likely to be enough. So Zed needs to pick timing more carefully and think about what other possible way out there is :)

Praprapra1 votes

You see flash only as an "free escape route". You can make play with flash, save life, fail flash, waste it, and more. Here's some points(to keep flash) :

-Low mobility champs need some kind of escape or get buffed (add number to their kits, add CC, etc.) : I won't play a champions withtout escape if flash is removed (Malazhar for instance would get ganked no stop.)

-High mobility on champions kits is more present than ever before : Really, look at almost all the last champs release, they come with CC and high mobility skills.

-Aggressive play : If flash is removed, there would be less aggressive play, league would become a more passive game. Maybe it won't matter in lower elo, but in high elo, when flash is down, people play more safe and then nothing happen.

I can find more reasons if you want.

I have some exemple of nice play with Flash : -Flashing to save a teamate from Caitlyn's ult.

-Maokai jumping on you, you flash underturret (or near your teamate)

-Flash juke (You go near a wall to bait the enemy flash/abilities, there's more juke with flash)

-Malphite ulting you, you flash at the last moment to dodge it.

-You flash over Ashe's arrow.

-You're ulting as fiddle(Kennen, amumu, or anyone with AOE), you flash to reach the enemy team.

-Shen's taunt + flash combo.

-You go really aggressive and got caught, you flash out.

Overall, i see more play possible because we have flash.

Cypherous2 votes

Flash already saw a nerf a long while back that reduced its range by a fair bit, there isn't really anything else you can do to it mechnically, its a blink, there are many champions with much better versions built in to their kits want to nerf those aswell? :P

I agree that some summoner spells aren't taken but thats just because they serve no real use, CV used to be standard on supports but it was far too strong, when they nerfed it nobody bothered with it anymore, revive is and always will be a troll spell :P clarity isn't required aslong as you understand mana management and heal does get picked but for supports its better to run exhaust

ValiantComics2 votes

Revive is not a troll spell really. In summoner's rift it is but on the Crystal Scar it is one of the few highly chosen spells. People seem to forget there are more game types than 5x5...maybe relegating revive to dominion like they did with garrison would settle that problem.

RedHawk Shade2 votes

i was thinkin about this today while i was takin a dump. Heres what i came up with. They should treat summoner spells like champs. By that i mean some spells should counter others. Actually its just flash but i feel like there should be a summoner spell that disables ur ability to flash say for maybe 5 seconds. Also lets say u can cleanse this. What would happen right away is people would rush to get the anti flash spell since the meta is Flash > all. what would happen is u would either see people start running ghost and something else, Flash Clense, or something random. Eventually players would pick their summoner skills based on what they think the enemy will bring to counter them with... or not. After people stop using flash as much the anti flash summoner would fall out of place and then people would pick back up on flash making an interesting cycle.

As far as Revive, Heal Clarity and CV those spells would get used more but still could use a rework. Maybe if flash is that strong it should be removed and players should just play more careful?

TLDR; add anti flash skill > possibly remove flash > rework the unused skills.

Phlogosis1 votes

Cleanse already counters Exhaust and Ignite - however I feel that Cleansing Exhaust is kind of a noob-trap, whilist I have gone games with 0 deaths, purely from the fact that Ignite's cooldown is longer than Cleanse's.

Kira Onime1 votes

Thing at this point the game is pretty much balanced around flash.

CrissDeBonTacos1 votes

For Revive.... how about to delete his cooldown and change how it work . Exemple , make him just cut by half ur dead time ?

gazreal1 votes

I think at this point what needs to be done is either let players use 3 summoner spells or reduce it to one per player and add a different mechanic of ability to use

CrissDeBonTacos1 votes

but still prefer delete every spell ...

RedHawk Shade1 votes

Make a spell that disables flash for a few seconds but can be cleansed. U now have created a shifting mete for summoner spells. I spoke long about my idea but somehow it got deleted b4 i sent :(. long story short people would stop using flash and use something else then start using it again and it would'nt be something picked by everyone in every match. I feel like that would be more interesting than getting rid of flash. Also maybe this skill should stop all movement abilities for like 5 seconds or something

Rasmuffin1 votes

short suggestion: add a .25 second channel to flash.

The potential to interrupt dashes exists in League with Aatrox jumps and Lee Sin kicks against a thresh flay. Every Elo has had it occur with the few champions where it is possible. the perpetrator feels skillful, and the recipient knows exactly what they didn't account for.

A short channel doesn't significantly reduce flash's utility in game. Flashing out of a situation will give counting CC mind-games similar to nunu's ult and retain the benefit of flashing into a situation will be easier than fiddlestick's ult.

The direction of the flash is undetermined while channeling giving potentially more juke potential despite relative distance traveled being lower.

Final note, I promise, a negated summoner spell may causes some frustration, which may be why barrier > heal. A second option would be an interrupted flash, could go to a 10-30 second cool down.(change the channel to .5 seconds if this is the case).

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