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[Item Discussion] Essence Reaver: "It's like communism"

ModCaptainMårvelous··15 votes·1,003 views

"It's like Communism: Great in theory, falls apart in implementation"

So I wanted to talk about Essence Reaver (Which doesn't have a CB icon yet) because I feel that it's kinda worth talking about. So, for background, the apparent reason this item was brought into existence was to diversify the Marksmen's build paths (AsheVarusLucian). Mostly, it was made to accommodate those who used mana frequently but didn't really justify buying item 3004/item 3042.

So, in theory, it's a great idea. Gives mana for restoring auto-attacks, a bit of utility stats for ADCs (Mana Regen, Cooldown reduction, lifesteal) and overall it's a cool idea. Where it falls apart, however, is in the implementation of this item.

Here are my main complaints about this item:

  • It's expensive- At 2650g in total, about a 150 less than item 3087, this item is a pretty pricey purchase to deal with mana. Sure, it gives lifesteal/CD reduction but if you rush this or even buy it as a second/third purchase, you're going to be hurting a bit versus the enemy adc who rushed some other big ticket item.

  • It's incredibly niche- 2-8% of the damage dealt as mana sounds nice, but most ADCs rarely use that much mana at ALL. The only ADCs I ever run into mana problems on are Ezreal and Lucian. Most of the time, this isn't even a problem with mana drain from skirmishes. Rather, I'm just spamming and not moderating my mana efficiently enough.

  • It has to compete with Manamune- Manamune is only 2100g. While it doesn't have the same stats that most ADCs want, that's almost 2 kills worth of gold packed into Essence Reaver. Furthermore, when mana becomes less of an issue late game, Manamune turns into Muramana and increases the damage dealt. Do many ADCs get this item? Not at all, but from the sound of it Manamune seems like a better purchase than Essence Reaver. ESPECIALLY considering how it grows stronger late game.

  • It's a bitchin' Scythe- Not an actual problem but god damn if it doesn't have a cool icon.

  • It overlaps with Sanguine Blade- Not a huge problem but it has the EXACT same build path as item 3181. On maps like Dominion/ARAM, this would be a bit of an issue especially considering that sanguine's stats end up being stronger when you put in the passive. Do I want to save a little more gold and get 10 more damage, CD and mana regen at all times? Is mana regen enough of an issue for me to get this item? Will my attack speed compensate and turn 40 to 70 and 15 to 20? It was a bit of an oversight, for sure.

  • The price and stats don't justify the need- My biggest problem, the item's stats and what it gives doesn't seem to justify the cost for the items. If I wanted lifesteal on an item, I'd be better off with any of the other options. Cooldown reduction is decent but not that often required on an ADC (And 10% isn't really going to do much), 50 attack damage is cool but why wouldn't I just get a BF sword? The reason I'm getting this item is for the mana regen and, at it's core, a little more mana won't win a fight like an early BF sword/crit cloak will.

So, what about essence reaver is cool? Well, for starters, it seems to work better on other champions than marksmen. Champions like Jayce and Yorick can purchase this item and rarely deal with mana issues instead of buying a manamune (Especially if they're like Yorick, who spams so much he runs out of mana at almost all stages of the game). Furthermore, I think this item is cool. I like this item, it's neat. I just think it could be built/implemented in a bit more clean way.

Is it bad? Naw, not at all. For getting on the client for a single patch it's pretty awesome. I just feel that it could be improved a bit:

  • Have an in-between or T1 version- Maybe do something like...

item 1053 + 400g = Mystic Viper

Total Cost: 1200g. Stats: 8-10% Lifesteal (Negotiable for price), 15-20 Attack Damage. Unique Passive: Mana Venom: Basic attacks grant 1-4% of the damage dealt as mana. The lower the mana, the higher the return.

This way you can build a smaller version to deal with current mana problems (As well as expand the early-mid tier of marksmen items that seems to be lacking a bit) and upgrade it later when you feel the need.

  • Change the buildpath- How about instead of overlapping with item 3181 on maps, we can change the path so that it's a bit more "unique". For example:

item 3134 + item 1053 = Essence Reaver.

Now the cooldown reduction doesn't seem to pop up from thin-air (As it's on brutilizer), the armor pen could either be added or lost upon upgrade (Giving a meaningful trade-off between the various brutilizer upgrades you could get) and there is no longer an overlap. Not to mention you have two decent mid-game marksmen items to carry you until you A.) Build essence reaver or B.) opt for rushing a different item.

  • Make the divide between Essence Reaver and Manamune more unique- How about we make there bit a more of a divide between the two. Maybe Manamune is for champions who function better with higher mana pools or tanky champions who will build more mana items while Essence Reaver works best for champions who need just a -little- more mana to get through the day. As of now, these two items feel like they're fighting to occupy the same position.

Overall, I'm not design expert. I'm just suggesting some ideas and trying to diversify the build path and what may be best for an item like Essence Reaver. In indea, it's an awesome concept. In execution, it leaves a bit to be desired. However, for being out for only a patch, at least the problems aren't that bad at all.

21 Comments

CaptainWednesday3 votes

You're right about the price. It is very pricey to even rush as a first or second item.

That being said, there are fighters that can also benefit from Essence Reaver.

Skarner, Poppy, Urgot (with others) have mana issues and the Reaver allows them to sustain themselves without backing after every skirmish.

Even with that, I agree with you that concept is nice, but the implementation of said item was poor and ineffective.

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

Yeah, I did mention that this item seems to work better for certain mana-intensive bruisers than it does for the intended audience (The Marksmen ADC area)

CaptainWednesday1 votes

It does help with them, especially junglers. You restore 5-11% of the damage dealt from just your AA's as mana from Reaver and a Spirit Stone (or higher tier SS item). That being said, it's so MEH at best.

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

If it was about 2000 or so, I'd easily get it on a lot of champs. The problem is that it's such a high cost item and only gives damage-stats.

ploki1222 votes

Actually, allow me to chime in on that as a Poppy main...

First of all, Poppy isn't as mana starved as people would think. She is different from Sion/WW, in that if you know how to play her, you won't run out of mana. Basically, you shouldn't be using W unless it saves your life, or kills the enemy. As for E, you use it exclusively if you can stun the enemy (and get something meaningful out of it) or get away from a dangerous spot.

Why people think that Poppy really has mana problem (and this works with a few other champs) is that her mana pool is limited, and Essence Reaver doesn't help that at all. Basically, at level 6, if you use WREQ + a 2nd Q (your ult probably isn't even over at that point), you just blew through 96% of your max mana. Even at level 2, you're using half (47%) of your mana for a single trade.

Now, if you rush Essence Reaver, you're 100% gonna lose your lane, and here's why. What does ER does... it gives you damage and sustain, and gives you mana back when you attack (including towers for now). So what you will want to do is cast spells, and attack stuff. You other opportunities are Tiamat + Vamp, or Cutlass + 2 daggers + boots 1. Both of these will give you similar DPS, but can actually evolve into a much more valuable item (Hydra and BotRK). So you end up matched against someone, and with your huge power spike of a completed item, all you have is higher mana regen... So if you were winning the lane, you're still winning the lane, and if you were losing you're sitlll losing the lane (without any real extra mana regen, since you're zoned).

This item is basically a win/lose more item, and that's not useful in most cases.

What you can do instead is Cutlass + Sheen, which will allow you to all-in better (25-33% bigger mana pool), while sustaining just as much. I seriously don't see any champions who would like a completed Reaver over Sheen + "filler item" (Cutlass, Giants' + boots, Phage, whatever).

TL;DR : What you need is either reliable flat mana regen, or a bigger mana pool (Muramana does both, ER does neither)

KSHarrison3 votes

My beef with this item:

  • Essence Reaver pales in comparison to Athene's Unholy Grail

Athene's and Essence Reaver are essentially analogs. Athene's is an AP item for unlimited mana; Reaver is an AD item for unlimited mana. They even both grant %CDR. Because their passives fulfill similar functions about as well, we can directly compare their gold efficiencies:

  • Essence Reaver : 100.6% Gold Efficient
  • Athene's Unholy Grail: 116.8% Gold Efficient

To make them equal, Essence Reaver would need its price reduced from 2650 to 2280 - almost 400 gold.

Seems a little unfair to have Athene's so damn efficient while Essence Reaver is not.

On top of this, Athene's has Chalice - it does have that mid-range upgrade!

OP:

I really like option 1. The mid-tier item with passive is what this needs.

I don't like option 2. Flat APen is already very efficient at lower levels, providing "unlimited" mana to boot makes the item too strong early.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Mmhm. Though the options aren't together. If Mystic Viper ended up existing, the path wouldn't be Bruitilizer + Mystic Viper. Just instead of Pickaxe + Vamp it's be Bruitilizer + Vamp.

JackYAqua3 votes

I've said this before, but I think Pickaxe + around 400 gold to make an in-between item should do the trick.

P.s. : I laughed out so hard when I read the title. Like communism? That comparison though.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I find it fitting. Communism is always touted as a great solution to humans working together (Everyone is equal!) but when you try to implement it? Falls flat on it's face and is just an utter mess. :P

On topic, Pickaxe + 400g would be a good path or even Pickaxe + 325g. Just give -some- path to work with.

ploki1222 votes

I think you hit the mark quite accurately. Basically, if you want mana regen, you want quick, reliable mana regen, and you want it without already being oom. The reason that Athene's work so well is that 1) mid laners have blue, and athene's work on blue and 2) it synergizes with other sources of mana regen.

In ER's case, it's a "life steal" of mana, meaning yo uhave ot constantly AA to regain mana, and early game you will probably be hiting ~100 which means 2-8 mana per hit, or ~4 mana per second (if you're at half mana with ~.8 AS). That's barely more than a 180g fairie charm, and late game you're stuck with a slot-inneficient item (unless you're really craving for CDR and mana, which you aren't).

On top of that, if you're building it on a bruiser instead of an ADC, it means you have to be winning lane to be able to stay in the minions and constantly AA minions. If you're simply last hitting, a Doran Ring is cheaper and will give you much more mana than this item.

If you're an ADC, you're gonna start vamp scepter, but then you need the power spike now, so it's vamp + Shiv/BT/IE. Then, you're gonna need an AS item if you didn't rush shiv, so Trinity Force/Shiv, and IE if you did rush Shiv. At this point, peoples are geared up, so you're probably getting LW next. So as a 5th item, Reaver could be used... or you can get take blue buff and be done with it... or a tear.

Basically, the item is good... but there's no good time to buy it. I also believe that "Mana Steal" is a flat out worse way or regenerating than Muramana.

Nortwin2 votes

Pantheon and Gangplank benefit from this item, if you have trouble managing their mana pool and just don't want to get Iceborne. With over-decent farming, you will be able to grab it just after main items.

Fires of Justice2 votes

Unfortunately, I personally found Essence Reaver to be very Lackluster after multiple attempts. I have to agree that I really feel like it makes me fall behind vs item rushers. While it looks pretty, it's not intimidating against an enemy. I think the item is confused between been an early or late game item, if that makes sense. Not a fan.

Linna Excel1 votes

There's one flaw in your post: you are only considering ADCs and not all AD based champs. Some aren't viable only because they've got mana issues up top. Having a mana constraint when dealing with a manaless champ is always a PITA. This just gives mana-starved tops an option.

You are also ignoring the CDR which is important for AD casters.

Another thing: its build items are common for all AD based champs. That makes it convenient to buy. If I'm sitting on a vamp scepter and a pickax and I'm running into one of those games where I'm using more mana than I'd like to, I might want to pick this up.

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

Nope. I actually talked in the post that Jayce and Yorick work well with this item and, as in the discussion above with CaptainWednesday, champions like Skarner Poppy and even Urgot work well with this item. And yeah, it's good for some other champions but the core problem is that none of these champions really use all the complements these choices.

Lifesteal? Not really all that optimal on an AD Caster, especially considering no lifesteal translation to spells.

Mana on-hit? Nice for some but again, most AD casters are likely going to be going through a rotation and then waiting to use their spells again instead of getting into the thick of it. (Certain exceptions listed above).

CDR? Well -everyone- likes CDR. Moving on.

As for these build paths being common, I'm more so liable to pick up a longsword and keep it as such instead of upgrading it to a vamp scepter. After all, sword/pickaxe build into more viable item paths than Vamp Scepter.

But the core issue is if there -is- a mana starved top, why would he get essence reaver? If he's hyper-spammy, he'd probably get Manamune/Muramana. If he's just managing mana poorly, he'll just grab some items that give bonus mana (Gauntlet, Frozen Heart).

The problem with this item is that it tries to fill a niche for one class (Marksmen) but ends up being better for other classes...and then fails because other items already are there which are better for it.

The Bored Frog2 votes

I like how it feels on pantheon he uses the stats pretty well and makes spears for days just feel right

Tobasco da Gama1 votes

Oddly enough, I just posted a similar thread about ER, and I think we agree about its major issues: http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/EvLzdVVO-the-fundamental-design-flaw-with-essence-reaver

To TL;DR what I said over there, basically I suggested that the Mana Regen comes too late to be useful on champs who want it. Your Mystic Viper suggestion is one way to tackle it. I proposed instead changing the build path to include Forbidden Idol, since it seems like a perfect early game item for most champs who want Essence Reaver, apart from the fact that it currently only builds into AP items.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

A different build-path seems to be the biggest consensus here. There are just too poorly worked paths with Vamp + Pickaxe.

Tobasco da Gama1 votes

Scepter and Pickaxe are both good items in themselves that are also pretty good when paired together, it's just that Mana Vamp gets to be mostly irrelevant by the time you finish the item. At least, that's my perspective.

12tales1 votes

I still think that Kog'Maw might be able to use this effectively as a 2nd or 3rd item. He's relatively mana hungry after he hits 6, and can use CDR fairly effectively effectively for an ADC. He's also able to proc the passive from longer range than most other ADCs thanks to his W.

The CDR is also interesting on Lucian in particular, since at 40% CDR, he's able to use his Culling every 30 seconds (AKA every wave). I'm not certain what the most efficient build path would be, but the addition of a new CDR item that gives entirely desirable stats is certainly helpful.

BlueBuffandChill1 votes

This is your opinion not mine i love essence reaver lol

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Oh I love it too. It's just not that good. :^)

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