Armor Penetration vs Scaling Attack Damage Marks

THExJACKAL·Dec 29, 2013·1 votes·2,180 views

So I was thinking, wouldn't it be better to get the Scaling Attack Damage runes, vs the flat armor penetration? According to what I've read, and even reading on the Armor Pen items themselves, all armor penetration does is increase your damage, by the armor pen amount.Meaning, an item giving +25 AD and a passive giving +10 Armor Pen, is the same as +35 AD. Correct? If so, wouldn't it be better to get the scaling attack damage, which gives you a +2.43 (at level 18) vs a flat +1.28 armor pen? Case being, if I get 9 marks, all armor pen, then i'm looking at a +11.58 armor pen, which is essentially the same as +11.58 attack damage. Whereas if I get 9 scaling attack damage, it'll be +1.17 attack damage at level one, but by level 10 I'll already surpass the armor pen, with the scaling giving me +11.7 attack damage, and by 18 I'll have +21.06 attack damage. So based on all this being correct, the scaling would give a better output of damage, vs the flats, and overall just being better. Yes?

6 Comments

TerchioDec 30, 20133 votes

Flat Armor Pen is not the same as AD. I don't know where these values are coming from. Armor Pen drops the enemy's effective armor, and the more you have, the higher the shred. For instance, if the enemy has 15 Armor, you naturally deal about 13% less damage to that guy. With 5 Armor Pen, you deal about 9% less damage to him, and with 5 more, you deal about a smidge less than 5% less damage to him, with 15 Armor Pen raising it finally to full 100% damage on the enemy. Armor Pen is actually stronger the more you have. On the other hand, AD decreases in value. 10 AD makes a 50 AD character 20% stronger, but it makes a 100 AD character only 10% stronger.

Overall, it's best to have both stats improving one another, but if you were to stack only one indefinitely, Armor Pen would eventually win out. With the limited methods to obtain it, though, it's not a one-size-fits-all situation. Some champions do better with AD because they have lower natural AD values they are working with, such as Attack Speed champions, where as others prefer to do more damage with the AD they have, especially those with large physical damage base values on skills, such as Pantheon, Talon, and Zed. It's all dependent on who you're playing. Considering that most popular physical damage characters rely on high AD values nowadays, Armor Penetration will still be a commonly good path to go toward.

JOÊMAMAMANDec 29, 20131 votes

I was just thinking the same thing too because I wanted to set up my AD runes into something that can probably harass an opponent early game but I was actually messing around with my runes with armor penetration marks and attack damage marks, I even blend them both together if that makes any sense. I played adc in a normal to test out my runes and I felt like armor penetration and attack damage marks were pretty useful since I did only have 2.1k IP just to get about 4-5 armor penetration marks. I was playing Vayne, too. I actually thought it kinda worked because of Vayne's W so I felt pretty good about it. I tried the same runes on Riven and it was just easier for me to farm and harass my lane. I don't know what other people would think, but I think armor penetration is pretty good instead of attack damage since you're not only having the same attack damage scaling, but it can also help fight off tanks during game without having to get Last Whisper or any other item with armor penetration till mid or late game.

THExJACKALDec 29, 20132 votes

Well, you see, based on the information giving, armor penetration, is essentially the same as attack damage. Having a +1.28 flat armor pen, is the same as having +1.28 attack damage. That's why I'm thinking the scaling marks would be most beneficial, by level 10 in-game. With it almost doubling the damage by level 18.If anything, I would think it would depend on if you're looking for better early game(flat armor pen) vs mid/late game(scaling ad) I'm just trying to see if there are other facts that I may be missing out on, or if what I'm saying, armor pen equaling attack damage, is true. As I said, in the items with armor pen, it just says that it increases the attack damage, based on how much armor pen you have, so that leads me to believe, that +10 armor pen, is the same as +10 attack dam.

Crowe StalkerDec 31, 20131 votes

Flat Armor Penetration Calculation for Armor/Magic Penetration is as follows: Almost every champion starts with around 30 innate armor (which can scale up to 61-90 naturally) 9 Greater Marks of Armor Penetration would add up to 11.52 armor penetration. Rounding down, that's equal to 11 Flat Armor Penetration. Now, subtract that from actual opponent armor, and then calculate armor reduction from damage. That's how it works.

If it was so simple as 1 armor protects from 1 damage, then 100 armor would essentially protect from 100 damage. Armor reduces damage as a percentage, and Flat Armor Penetration removes some armor from that calculation.

Flat Armor Penetration Marks would ignore 11 of the target's armor when calculating damage values, increasing damage by migrating armor, which is more effective on heavily armored champions than it is on weak ones.

Unless your composition is mostly AD (and therefore, Armor is preferable) or you are trying to kill the enemy Tank, you usually want to go for Attack Damage runes rather than Armor Penetration, as most enemy teams, unless your entire team is building attack damage, will likely not build the armor needed to make this rune hold much value beyond starting ganks (which, by the time they start on average for me, are usually around level 5, at which point scaling would be preferable.)

THExJACKALDec 31, 20131 votes

Thank you much for that explanation. I really appreciate the insight. What caused me to think the way I was prior, was the misunderstanding of 1 ArP equals 1 AD. Now that I know it's a percentage, that clears it up quite a bit for me, and I can choose what I feel would be best. Thanks again.

CoknucklesDec 30, 20131 votes

But you're also bringing up 2 seperate points. Attack damage vs armor pen, and flat vs scaling runes. No matter what you decide, there are always flat runes, and scaling runes. The flat ones are better for champions you're having trouble with early game. The scaling ones help later late game, but do nothing in the first few lvls.