[4.8] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast

RiotJag··18 votes·28,345 views

Hey guys, Jag here again for the 4.8 Patch Forecast. We're trying to rotate the Live Gameplay designers that deliver this each patch so you get to know more of the Balance team, but RiotChun was hard at work on some Kha'Zix changes (more details on that below), so hopefully you'll hear from him or SmashGizmo for 4.9.

As it stands, this may be a light patch because we're working on a few mid/long-term changes that you may not see until 4.9 or later, but we'll do our best to keep you on top of everything we have in flight. When we first started doing these forecasts (not too long ago), we thought we'd just talk about all the challenges we faced in the past and present, but didn't fully consider how long each would take in terms of getting 'right.' This might give a better idea of how we approach design and conception.

1) Because we saw how light 4.8 was in terms of our shorter-term projects, we also took some time to 'modernize' a few champions in the game. There are a lot of challenges to doing this constantly (we can talk about that later), but the ones we changed were selected for their low impact, high value for players without skewing or being 'halfway' fixes that don't address core issues. You'll see these in the patch notes soon.

The ones below we're in the process of concepting and ideation, and some are closer than others but they're all at least close enough to talk about:

2) Soraka

Solo lane Soraka is definitely a problem with her easy lane clear and almost infinite harass potential. As with Lulu, we have to ask the question of whether or not we think this is a character that has a play pattern that can provide healthy gameplay as both a support and a mid/top laner. We looked into solutions to just hit Soraka's wave clear, like reducing the Starcall damage done to minions, but overall it's hard to see her having such significant sustained damage through the base values of Starcall, even when she has tankier builds. To that end we may refocus some of the power value of Starcall into utility instead of damage.

3) Feral Flare

We've had a lot of pivots on this item in terms of its purpose and long-term direction. I think the live version more accurately reflects the concept we want it to facilitate - a mid/late game item that has strong scaling for carry/autoattacking champions. We still need to make sure that it fits in, in terms of jungler map interactivity, so we're looking to tweak the item's power level while refining the kill/assist mechanics to further incentivize Feral Flare junglers to at least occasionally leave their camps and pressure lanes.

4) Skarner

We're still working on some changes to help Skarner's stickiness and reduce the snowballiness of his current passive. He probably won't have changes for 4.8, but he's still a high priority we're actively working on. Promise!

5) Kha'zix

The team has been hard at work on finding ways to make Kha'zix's popular evolutions balanced. As a side goal we're trying to make all 4 feel like viable evolutions (at least situationally), but our greater concern is keeping him an interesting Assassin with options for counterplay without giving him too much Fighter-level utility (and the capability to brute force fights like Fighters while finishing the fight quickly like an Assassin). The damage reduction on his evolved Ultimate is one of the big culprits here, as there are no avenues of counterplay against him when he stealths (detect and kill him? run away? He has tools to avoid both!).

6) LeBlanc

Our team is continuing analysis on LeBlanc. Her problems remain the same: she's a high burst, high mobility assassin with low counterplay. However, we're reluctant to totally break down her high points without making sure has ways to meaningfully contribute to her team's success, whether that be through her Mage patterns (i.e. her CC) or her Assassin patterns. The problem right now is her 'core identity' is so tied in with her unbalanced play that extracting one from the other is a bigger challenge.

7) Nidalee

Nidalee has been problematic for some time now. We like seeing comps oriented around poking the enemy, but the onslaught of life-or-death projectiles that Nidalee can throw at enemy teams in the mid/late game, particularly when she's built some cooldown reduction, is not interesting gameplay. We have larger set of promising changes in progress for her that fixes her long range spear problems while trying to emphasize more of her "hunting" ideas (you'll hear about it when we get more confidence in the overall direction), but we may need to make a power adjustment on the interim if Nidalee remains so optimal for poke comps.

8) AD Carries

Twitch has made a big splash recently in the competitive scene. Some of our design team has wondered why it did not happen earlier, given his strong laning and fantastic end-game scaling. We're guessing his prettier (or uglier, depending on the thematic we're going for) model helps. We're not going to rush any changes on him yet since we'd like some time to see how a high pick rate on him will play out, but he's definitely on our radar. His end-game hypercarry role is something we like and are unlikely to remove from the game; if anything, his early Contaminate (formerly Expunge) damage may be a little too powerful.

Lucian has been a steady pick in competitive for some time now. His combination of very reliable and effective damage in lane (his Piercing Light ability has relatively low counterplay and Lightslinger is a strong scaling damage passive), as well as his very high levels of safety make him a carry with virtually no weaknesses. We are a little more confident that we're going to need to make adjustments to him soon to help give him more defined strengths and weaknesses instead of being such a generalist blind pick.

9) Jungle

We have been spending a lot of time examining what function the jungle plays in League of Legends and how to evaluate jungler interactions we like seeing in the game. We need more time to deliver a cohesive story here but I want to note that it is at the front and center of our team's focus right now.

10) Braum

Braum has just released and we are keeping a close eye on his power level!

339 Comments

Tik 33 votes

Cmon Riot, ADCs are almost useless in this meta and now you want to nerf the two good ones because they are actually decent? -.-

Jingerbeardman7 votes

if they were useless they wouldnt see play at all.

RiotJag26 votes

Short answer: We know that Marksmen have problems right now. We're exploring solutions (we've mentioned we're examining ADC itemization on the systems team) to help the class out. The perception that they are weak has definitely entered into our decision process when considering nerfing specific carries.

Long answer: I'm not trying to preview specific solutions or changes we may end up considering here, but let's explore the issue a little deeper. Consider which ADCs have the ability to most dramatically impact the outcome of a game. I'm talking about the big bad hyperscaling carries, like Vayne, Tristana, Kog'maw - the ones that can stop the enemy team dead in their tracks (I know Twitch fits here too, but his lane bully presence warps this comparison in his case). There are multiple reasons that these champions aren't in favor at the moment, but one of the big reasons is that when you pick a strong-late/weak-early scaling ADC, you'll see the enemy team lock in a Lucian, Caitlyn, Draven, etc., you'll get bullied out of lane, and you'll not have the game go long enough for you to catch up/outscale them. Some of these champions have the same impact Renekton does in the top lane, in that they skew what champions can actually survive lane and still stay relevant.

Again, Marksman class's strength as a whole may need to be brought up a bit, but part of the problem is that the most early-game dominant Marksmen suppress a lot of the most powerful ADCs from playing the game. If we do change Lucian and Twitch, rest assured we're not going to leave Marksmen players without any viable choices for impacting the game.

ggambino12 votes

I actually really agree with this sentiment. Lucian/Cait/Twitch every game is boring, especially Lucian.

Breath of Fire7 votes

To be fair, Lucian is the most fun of an adc, 'cause you use your skills + auto's. Like you do Q + Auto then W + Auto. It's just a very fun adc to play. But Jinx is a bully in lane also, Ezreal can do well in lane also, Vasilii is proving how strong Ezreal still is. The annoying E dmg from Trist is really good also. Most adc's can do just fine in lane. I don't see the point in looking at weakening certain adc's while they're in a bad spot instead of keeping them as they are, and buffing the weak adc's to make them on Lucian's level, since Lucian is probably the best ADC.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

However, Tristana especially falls into a gaping mid-game hole, despite her rather strong laning presence. This is due to her ability damage not scaling, her safety needing build-up time (range/lvl) and her auto-attacks not yet packing the punch due to lacking the necessary items.

Ezreal is possibly the weakest of AD carries, lategame-wise.

Lucian is just (too) strong at all stages of the game, never possessing a point where he really has a distinct weakness. Yes, he doesn't have the hyper-strong late-game of Vayne/Kog/Tris/Twitch, but, he's still an AD carry.

Same goes for Caitlyn. I actually think her late-game is rather underrated, especially in siege situations. 650 range, with a slowing gap-opener, is nothing to scoff at.

Eddard Sheeran3 votes

Just to offer a different perspective, many pros have said the biggest problem with tristana is the fact that when you play her, you don't have the ability to control the lane, because your e passive automatically pushes the lane. This is a huge problem for a high-level adc.

CSDragon84 votes

As a Twitch main, Twitch is nothing more than a product of the Meta right now.

You ask why he was less popular for a while? It's not the new model. Twitch was insanely popular in the 2013 Summer Split, but you did not nerf him out of popularity, the reason he faded was due to meta shifts.

First and foremost, twitch's largest weaknesses are high burst that he can't stealth away from, and enemy champions with quick harass patterns that can get in, do damage and get out before twitch can stack his poison and Contaminate for massive damage.

Near the end of the summer split, the assassin mid lane became very popular. While bad news for many ADCs, Twitch was one of the most affected, as he relies on his 850 range in teamfights to survive, and Ahri and Zed could close that distance instantly. Twitch was suddenly a lot less powerful.

Then, the Trinity Force rework happened. Suddenly burst ADCs like Corki and Lucian were not just viable but top-tier, and twitch's biggest weakness, early game burst lanes, became the standard bot lane. About this time, the high-burst Annie support also rose in popularity.

After Corki got nerfed, the bot lane meta shifted to Sivir/Jinx/and/Lucian ADCs and Thresh/Leona/Annie supports. Bot had become a deathlane that Twitch was not suited for.

About this time the tanky rushdown top meta was in full swing. This meta was bad for any ADC without an escape or movespeed steroid, Twitch among them.

Twitch does not thrive in this environment at all, and became one of the least picked ADCs at the time (barring Quinn and Urgot), sitting next to Miss Fortune and Kog'Maw in terms of popularity. (Also big 2013 champs that got ousted due to the meta.)

But meta is change. No meta lasts forever, and with the season 4 changes to snowballing, assassin mids fell out of flavor and building for late game suddenly became more preferable. This put carries back in the top lane instead of Mundo and Shyvana.

Another unexpected thing happened about that time too. Morgana took to support, weakening the bot lane all-in lanes, and Lulu and Soraka became popular in solo lanes, giving Twitch his much needed peel late game. This allows Twitch to operate at full capacity.

TL;DR: Twitch is strong in a meta that emphasizes peel and late game. He was weak for a long time because the meta emphasized burst and early game.

Please, leave Twitch alone. If you want him to have less of an impact, buff Tristana. Buff Kog'maw. Buff Vayne. Buff ADCs that should be as powerful as him late, but have been nerfed into uselessness, even in a meta that favors them.

Or nerf late game and buff early game so we can have a nice balance between Season 3's early game meta and Season 4's late game meta and Twitch will fall into place. Nerf Morgana support, Soraka top/mid and Lulu mid so "Protect the Doublelift" comps are less viable.

undyl4n5 votes

The Meta shifts because, as you say, certain things get nerfed or buffed and cycle into favor. Riot balances, aka buffing and nerfing, based on what is most powerful/needs help/is abusive. Twitch falls into the category of "most powerful." As you say, late-game peel oriented Marksmen like Kog, Twitch, Tristana, and to a lesser extent Vayne and Varus are valued in the current meta which focuses on late game. Twitch shines high above the others because he not only is strong in the late game on-par with those other Marksmen, but has an early game lane bully phase as strong as the lane bullies like MF. This patch forecast specifically said they would most likely leave his late game alone, and are looking at the early game values on his E. If he was to be toned down a bit, the other late game Marksmen could compete with him because they have other strengths which Twitch may not have. In his current state, Twitch's strengths are such that the other late-game Marksmen are not worth choosing over him in almost any situation.

mi ramfan15 votes

Glad to see you're finally addressing Nidalee.

Do you guys have any news on reworks of the "bottom of the barrel" champions like Poppy, Sion, Urgot, etc? Would be nice to know they're not totally forgotten.

Cerbearus2 votes

Urgot... There was a lot of talk about him last year on him being top priority on the rework list, and we haven't gotten anything since...

Gixia4 votes

They were talking about him, but they specifically said he WASN'T top priority. Rather they said they'd like to get to him sometime in 2014 if they could, but if they did it would be near the end of the year, and 2015 was probably more likely, specifically because other champs like Sion and Poppy and whatever emergency situations have arisen since then were greater priority.

Cerbearus4 votes

I don't see why he wouldn't be. Having the lowest win rate AND play rate for TWO YEARS now would be top priority to me.

mi ramfan3 votes

If Poppy and Sion are "higher priority" I'd love to see some actual action (like "let's talk about Poppy" thread on GD

Instead we have nothing. Complete silence. Did Riot EVER even make a token attempt to balance her?

Gixia3 votes

They've never made a thread for her like they did with say, Rengar, no. But they HAVE had some detailed discussions about her in the past.

They also don't always make threads for the champions they're reworking. Just look at some of the recent ones. Skarner and Rengar got one, but Kassadin and Gragas did not.

RiotJag11 votes

They're not forgotten.

Polaritie3 votes

Poppy is in the "nerf into oblivion until toxic gameplay fixed" tier, right?

Cerbearus3 votes

She wasn't actually nerfed, and hasn't seen any changes at all (excluding bug fixes) since early S1

Phoenix Kotori 2 votes

Yup morello said months ago that she is in that spot because of confusing and complex passive and her ult in general. And that if she saw as viable competitive champ that riot would forced to nerf her harshly.

PatMcGroyn4 votes

Poppy is such a binary champion. Probably one of he shittiest laners in the game, with huge hypercarry abilities given enough time to get items.

mi ramfan4 votes

Can you send us whoever's working on Poppy/Urgot/Sion (could be any one of them for a feeding frenzy discussion? Doesn't have to be in this thread (or necessarily community beta).

Or could you give me their name(s) so I can tag them on here and on GD to try to get their attention?

justtryanother10 votes

They are not Urgotten.

.

.

.

Sorry for that.

:(

RiotRiot Scruffy7 votes

Yep! We are actively working on a lot of "needs love" type champion updates. They are a much bigger undertaking because they usually need multiple new mechanics and often a complete visual overhaul.

We hope to treat these projects with the same TLC as a new champion. They may take longer to complete, but they're hopefully worth the wait.

Cuix6 votes

A bit more insight into that "actively working on" bit would be great.

exec32 votes

Any chance Cass is on that list? Specifically i'd like to see Twin Fangs reset check to happen on cast rather than on hit because of all the cases where the enemy dies or the poison wears out before it hits making it unfairly go on cooldown. I even made a thread to which Statikk replied saying he'd try and get back to me about it but sadly never returned. :(

Also any chance that Nidalee's autoattack projectile will get fixed up? Having the spear projectile go through the enemy before 'hitting' was really awkward and led me to stop playing her.

Bombolz2 votes

Viktor I'm curious as to how the Viktor rework is coming along. There hasn't been any news for him in ages regarding his rework. The skin was nice and all but I don't know why its taken so long. I understand that fixing a champion is a lot of work and time but Viktor just seems to be one of the most neglected champions I have seen. Other champions have had their rework started long after Viktor and despite being a much larger rework overall, it's been completed and Viktor's rework is still somewhere in the dark. From what I heard, the main changes viktor is getting is related to his passive. I believe his release date was on 2011-12-29 and his scheduled rework came about a year after that, so even after all this time we, the players are still left in the dark about the progress of him. It just makes me wonder if they are even working on him at all.

RiotMorello4 votes

We've focused some of our reworks (Grags/Kass) on getting problematic champions fixed so that we can have them healthy, but still see play, but the other side of this coin is the weak/unusable champions who are either binary in power (overbearing when strong and worthless when not OP) or have major things holding them back from competing in today's landscape.

Balancing these two approaches is one of the bigger focuses for the reworks team from a gameplay front. Some (Sion/Poppy) are basically "brand new champion" amount of work - but with the added difficulty of current expectations and how we can either meet or evolve those. Some need big changes to provide anything meaningful to the game that you can leverage (Shaco, and a bit of what Heimer was). This is a monumental effort that has the same level of focus and resources as new champions do.

My opinion is that reworks are one of the most important and engaging pieces of content we can do if done well, and one of the biggest ways we need to re-earn people's trust. The reason we're still working on Skarner follow-up is due to this fact.

cold ravioli12 votes

People seem to be missing something. Some of these changes aren't because someone is overpowered, it's because they're not fun to play against. I love Leblanc, but playing against her is misery. The same is true of Nidalee. Playing against the spear-onslaught of death simply isn't fun. Yes, Nidalee can be beaten. Statistically speaking, the game is pretty well balanced. But having fun is important to a game... because if it's not fun, people will stop playing.

flemflem7 votes

I have some questions I would like to ask. I Love Soraka as she is now, the changes that were made in this season, made her viable. The questions I would like to have answers to are:

  1. In Season 3 Soraka was almost unseen. So now that she can functionally play her mage role why such a hard nerf?

  2. In the release with the trinkets and the supports getting a buff, and reportedly Soraka was underperforming, Why weaken her main source of damage, which is not much due to her ratios, encumber her light form of cc, and perplex an already squishy champ?

  3. What do you want her to be, and will the nerfs be so hard, that she is unplayable, then once again go back to needing a buff?

I understood why the mana scaling was taken off. and due to her ratios the amount of ap and items needed to make her "overpowered" as some may think,(Soraka is actually Under powered) leaves her more vulnerable to any and all forms of attack.

Soraka has no form of escape, already moves slow, squishy, is always locked in place when casting any ability. The change of her passive took what little extra mr she offered.

These are some questions I was pondering.

It almost makes it seems like the players are being punished for trying to make a champion viable.

Limakoko8086 votes

I love playing LB, she was the first champion i tried since switching to midlane in the preseason, and i do agree that she needs tweaks.

Having said that, PLEASE keep her identity as that of an assassin. We already have a bunch of mages(although not all of them are viewed as viable) and im scared that if you guys try to focus on her mage patterns, it will ruin what makes her so fun. Which is, for me at least, high mobility that you try to find ways to outplay opponents, and high damage to make those squishies explode.

Honestly i feel that her late game is perfectly fine, mostly people just complaing about her laning phase because the lack of counterplay of an all in besides staying as fr away as possible and having really good reactions. Now i dont have trouble laning against lb often, but i can see how it could be frustrating for people because there has been many times where ive surprised my enemy by flash/ignite and killing them at level 2/3.

I dont believe she needs nerfs at all, but power redistribution would do alot for her and her opponents if done correctly. Honestly the only reason so much people hate he, despite her abysmal winrate, is because they play right into her strengths instead of taking advantage of her weaknesses.

For some strange reason a lot of the people who ive won against with her, and the complained about how op she is, are the players who would constantly die again and again because they dont learn from thei mistakes. I cannot tell you how many times ive killed someone who overextends without wards, or the squishy adc who facechecks then tells me in allchat "wow so op."

Lol i know the average person at my skill level isnt that knowledgeable, but its surprising how many people play against her with this going through their head: "instead of poking down the squishy burts assassin with no sustain, im going to all in her and complain when i die."

She has very clear weaknesses, the problem is certain parts of her kill pattern leaves a small window of counterplay. Its not impossible, but its definetly not easy to play against a good LB.

Phoenix Kotori 6 votes

She has very clear weaknesses

Which are what exactly?

She has CC on 2 of her skills (3 if she chooses), mobility, waveclear, jukes, and burst.

She has pretty much everything a champion could want outside of sustain or tankyness.

I hate her because she is so clearly broken in competitive play when you watch a pro mid lane play her, it doesn't matter they're playing they just lose.

Hyrum Graff8 votes

Silence + Root = stun. A stun on assassins is not healthy for the game. Give her the kassadin treatment: remove her silence, give her a compensation buff, and she'll have retained her identity while giving her counterplay.

Jingerbeardman2 votes

silence and root on a mages my seem like a stun but it is far from that on an adc

Buckarooboi2 votes

A silenced, rooted ADC is a dead ADC unless the enemy team is retarded or it's a pre-6 teamfight or something. They can still auto attack one to three times (depending on AtkSpd) during the duration but they can no longer use escape abilities, BotRK active, or defensive summoners and are the easiest target to kill in the first place. Positioning is everything on an ADC, and a snare removes that option.

TSM GodKong1 votes

A silenced, rooted ADC is a dead ADC unless the enemy team is retarded or it's a pre-6 teamfight or something. They can still auto attack one to three times (depending on AtkSpd) during the duration but they can no longer use escape abilities, BotRK active, or defensive summoners and are the easiest target to kill in the first place. Positioning is everything on an ADC, and a snare removes that option.

A silenced, rooted adc is a bad adc. If any adc lets leblanc get close enough to use her e (500 range) He's bad. I can see an adc being 100-0'd by leblanc in a team fight if your team doesn't deal with leblanc correctly, but same goes for zed. So....

ICantNameMe5 votes

LB has a 2550 range snare with (W R Flash E). Its still 1550 range with just W E. There's no way for an ADC to both deal damage and stay out of her kill range. LB combo (W DFG Q R E W) takes about 0.5s to execute and will chunk 70% of the ADC's life even if E misses. Average reaction time is ~300ms, so it is very hard for your support (ali,thresh,lulu,morg) to react in time to save you.

Zed, on the other hand, has pretty mediocre laning, his rank 1 ult only amplifies 20% damage, and he needs to land his Q skillshot to even do noticeable damage. If you miss your Q on Zed, you are not getting the kill unless it's already late game or the enemy is low hp already. You only get 1 Q per ult. Like Zed's ult alone gives you 0.75s to react (he's untargetable) and prepare for his ult. LeBlanc has already done her combo and either killed or chunked you before Zed even becomes targetable...

Hyrum Graff2 votes

Going untargetable also gives a lot of outplay potential - it's a strength and a weakness.

Limakoko8086 votes

I agree with this. However the compensation buff cannot be damage on her q or w, it would make her do way too much damage in lane, she already does enough.

A cop out would be to just add damage to her e but i dont think it will be worth it because her chains are primarily used for the slow/root not the damage.

The fact of the matter is that if they just took away her silence and done nothing, she would be horrible. Her silence is the only thing keeping her from dying when she w's in. She is just way too squishy. So i feel that maybe her silence could stay on her ultimate q, but not her regular q. They could also put in a delay for her blink back for her w, like .5 to .75 seconds. Or make it a full second, but if she hits an enemy champ it gets reduced to .5 seconds.

Obviously this alone is a nerf to her pre 6 lane bully identity, so perhaps they could add a slight buff to her w when she hits an enemy champion? Like it could be a shield, or a flat percentage damage reduction until she she blinks back? That way if you dodge her w, you can damage her until she can blink, and if you hit her with cc in that amount of time she is basically dead.

Idk if that would actually work lol but thats why im not on the balance team

Tanonev4 votes

As a compensation buff, why not make her R be mirrored on her clone if it mimics W or E (but adding in the restriction that each enemy can only be affected by the spell at most once)? There's precedence for this mechanic (skill shots from multiple sources) with Lulu and Zed. Also, it doesn't increase her combo damage, but it does boost her iconic deception powers. If she needs more of a compensation buff, have the real W and E be mirrored as well, but have them do 0 if they come from the clone.

TSM GodKong1 votes

"everything a champion could want outside of sustain or tankyness"... Thanks for listing her weaknesses. You're probably the guy who says "I can never beat leblanc with my assassins so she's op". Lock in nidalee against a leblanc though. Games easy.

Phoenix Kotori 6 votes

So I have to pick another broken mid laner that **everyone **complains about to beat her? Sounds balanced to me.

Zyngo6 votes

You're probably going to decide to nerf Braum after this first week because you see that he has a fairly high winrate and a very strong presence in team fights. But wasn't the whole point of his creation, making a tanky support that can really change a teamfight when played well?

The fact that he is being dominant in lane is not because he is OP, I think, but because people don't know how to play against him because he is new. Just like when Yasuo came out, and Vel'koz came out. Or any new champion that people need to learn the counterplay for. There are so few really good supports now that we can play, so as a support main I have to ask you, Riot, please don't nerf a new champion after just a week or two simply because people who can't play against it bitch and moan.

Let us have more than three viable top-tier supports. Let us have a manly tank if that is how we want to play our support. Thanks.

Brydaro4 votes

I actually wanted to weigh in and mention some supports that counter Braum in terms of breaking his play-style and mechanics.

Morgana Morgana in particular can immobilize him and break his positioning (which is key) and provides a spell shield for his Crowd Control.

Alistar Alistar is great for breaking his positioning, though not as strongly as Morg and can keep him suppressed.

Pantheon Mantheon's temporary immunity from AAs gives him some resistance to Braum's passive and his all-in style maybe enough to secure a few kills. It's not as strong a pick as the other two IMO.

Edit:

Kayle Kayle's fire blade counts as a melee basic and bypasses Braum's Unbreakable.

Hyrum Graff3 votes

One of Braum's major purposes is to body-block for his adc. If he's been harassed enough, he can't do this safely. Therefore, any poke support works well against him. Specifically, there are two I'd like to add to the list:

Karma Karma's ult-q is aoe. If you shoot it next to Braum when he has Unbreakable up, you can get it to detonate at max range and hit someone behind him (and him, at the same time).

Velkoz Vel'Koz's Q, because geometry. Furthermore, Braum's Unbreakable doesn't block Vel's ult.

Remlap12235 votes

Houw about instead of nerfing champions into the ground (which has worked out so well in the past heavy sarcasm inbound) you bring the old champions that have been Olaf'd back into the game though making them viable again. The problem isn't the fact that Leblanc and Nidalee are overpowered, but the fact that they've been allowed to go unanswered for because simply every mid laner besides these Soraka Nidalee Leblanc Lulu Ziggs have been taken out of the game. If instead the focus on bringing these former awesome mid lane champs back into the game (Gragas TwistedFate Orianna Lux Anivia ) you'd get more variety. Same applies for bot lane Quinn Graves and top as well Aatrox Chogath Darius Gangplank Garen Olaf Tryndamere

Phoenix Kotori 10 votes

Did you **really **just suggest TwistedFate or Orianna need BUFFS? You just invalidated your opinion entirely with that both of them been used very successfully in recent competitive play, any changes could buff them over the top into OP FoTM status then result them getting nerfed.

Darius Gangplank Garen Tryndamere are examples of champions with poor or unhealthy game play and are huge part of the reason the "Renekton bar" **must **exist because Riot is well aware of the dangers of allowing such champions to dominate the top lane.

Aatrox Olaf are simply a bit out of the meta currently, they've been used for successful team in highest play during S4 just aren't in the current meta, so at best could use minor changes or tweaks. Chogath could probably use a little of actual changes though, but no idea where riot would want to fool with him.

Anivia Lux are both extremely safe mages with how much range and safe clear they have atm, so I have trouble seeing where you could buff them and call it fair. Gragas was too recently reworked and buffed to call for anymore changes until the dust clears and shows if he actually needs more.

Graves is seeing play in competitive and is just a bit overshadowed by Lucian, I don't think he really needs much if any changes right now.

Quinn is strong in her niche I could see anything besides bugfixing, or minor CD change on early rank ult pushing into an OP point potential. She just isn't in meta mostly.

Thales7 votes

Quinn is basically Garen as a marksman. For each, if they get ahead even a little bit, they'll harass you out of lane continuously, and kill you every time their ult is off cooldown.

Sir ArmaMalum4 votes

Was wondering when this was coming along, I really do appreciate these.

I'm wondering how much Lucian's pick rate is going to skyrocket with a Braum duo. Their passives combined are pretty obnoxious. Whether that's a good obnoxious or bad obnoxious I think we'll find out soon.

I'm excited to think of what changes Kha (evolved spikes are an easy pivot to move power around, as very few people like them imho) and Nidalee may get in the future, would love some separate "Let's Talk" threads on them. Well, more of them in Nid's case.

Are there any new developments for the 'Renekton bar' and the current state of fighters?

Inciflahrdus7 votes

For Kha's Evolved Spikes I would like to see a mechanism similar to Heim's Rockets: You can control the spread width. It would allow to "tunnel them" towards enemies making them so much harder to dodge = more valuable without buffing parameters.

Crackbateh4 votes

If you make Nidalee's spears like Teemo's mushrooms.. that would help balance her out a lot.

This way it keeps her poke potential, but reduces the frequency of it. Making it all the more important to land those spears and not just throw them whenever they are up.

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