[4.8] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast

RiotJag·5/13/2014, 11:48:34 PM·18 votes·28,345 views

Hey guys, Jag here again for the 4.8 Patch Forecast. We're trying to rotate the Live Gameplay designers that deliver this each patch so you get to know more of the Balance team, but RiotChun was hard at work on some Kha'Zix changes (more details on that below), so hopefully you'll hear from him or SmashGizmo for 4.9.

As it stands, this may be a light patch because we're working on a few mid/long-term changes that you may not see until 4.9 or later, but we'll do our best to keep you on top of everything we have in flight. When we first started doing these forecasts (not too long ago), we thought we'd just talk about all the challenges we faced in the past and present, but didn't fully consider how long each would take in terms of getting 'right.' This might give a better idea of how we approach design and conception.

1) Because we saw how light 4.8 was in terms of our shorter-term projects, we also took some time to 'modernize' a few champions in the game. There are a lot of challenges to doing this constantly (we can talk about that later), but the ones we changed were selected for their low impact, high value for players without skewing or being 'halfway' fixes that don't address core issues. You'll see these in the patch notes soon.

The ones below we're in the process of concepting and ideation, and some are closer than others but they're all at least close enough to talk about:

2) Soraka

Solo lane Soraka is definitely a problem with her easy lane clear and almost infinite harass potential. As with Lulu, we have to ask the question of whether or not we think this is a character that has a play pattern that can provide healthy gameplay as both a support and a mid/top laner. We looked into solutions to just hit Soraka's wave clear, like reducing the Starcall damage done to minions, but overall it's hard to see her having such significant sustained damage through the base values of Starcall, even when she has tankier builds. To that end we may refocus some of the power value of Starcall into utility instead of damage.

3) Feral Flare

We've had a lot of pivots on this item in terms of its purpose and long-term direction. I think the live version more accurately reflects the concept we want it to facilitate - a mid/late game item that has strong scaling for carry/autoattacking champions. We still need to make sure that it fits in, in terms of jungler map interactivity, so we're looking to tweak the item's power level while refining the kill/assist mechanics to further incentivize Feral Flare junglers to at least occasionally leave their camps and pressure lanes.

4) Skarner

We're still working on some changes to help Skarner's stickiness and reduce the snowballiness of his current passive. He probably won't have changes for 4.8, but he's still a high priority we're actively working on. Promise!

5) Kha'zix

The team has been hard at work on finding ways to make Kha'zix's popular evolutions balanced. As a side goal we're trying to make all 4 feel like viable evolutions (at least situationally), but our greater concern is keeping him an interesting Assassin with options for counterplay without giving him too much Fighter-level utility (and the capability to brute force fights like Fighters while finishing the fight quickly like an Assassin). The damage reduction on his evolved Ultimate is one of the big culprits here, as there are no avenues of counterplay against him when he stealths (detect and kill him? run away? He has tools to avoid both!).

6) LeBlanc

Our team is continuing analysis on LeBlanc. Her problems remain the same: she's a high burst, high mobility assassin with low counterplay. However, we're reluctant to totally break down her high points without making sure has ways to meaningfully contribute to her team's success, whether that be through her Mage patterns (i.e. her CC) or her Assassin patterns. The problem right now is her 'core identity' is so tied in with her unbalanced play that extracting one from the other is a bigger challenge.

7) Nidalee

Nidalee has been problematic for some time now. We like seeing comps oriented around poking the enemy, but the onslaught of life-or-death projectiles that Nidalee can throw at enemy teams in the mid/late game, particularly when she's built some cooldown reduction, is not interesting gameplay. We have larger set of promising changes in progress for her that fixes her long range spear problems while trying to emphasize more of her "hunting" ideas (you'll hear about it when we get more confidence in the overall direction), but we may need to make a power adjustment on the interim if Nidalee remains so optimal for poke comps.

8) AD Carries

Twitch has made a big splash recently in the competitive scene. Some of our design team has wondered why it did not happen earlier, given his strong laning and fantastic end-game scaling. We're guessing his prettier (or uglier, depending on the thematic we're going for) model helps. We're not going to rush any changes on him yet since we'd like some time to see how a high pick rate on him will play out, but he's definitely on our radar. His end-game hypercarry role is something we like and are unlikely to remove from the game; if anything, his early Contaminate (formerly Expunge) damage may be a little too powerful.

Lucian has been a steady pick in competitive for some time now. His combination of very reliable and effective damage in lane (his Piercing Light ability has relatively low counterplay and Lightslinger is a strong scaling damage passive), as well as his very high levels of safety make him a carry with virtually no weaknesses. We are a little more confident that we're going to need to make adjustments to him soon to help give him more defined strengths and weaknesses instead of being such a generalist blind pick.

9) Jungle

We have been spending a lot of time examining what function the jungle plays in League of Legends and how to evaluate jungler interactions we like seeing in the game. We need more time to deliver a cohesive story here but I want to note that it is at the front and center of our team's focus right now.

10) Braum

Braum has just released and we are keeping a close eye on his power level!

339 Comments

Tik 5/14/2014, 2:27:30 AM33 votes

Cmon Riot, ADCs are almost useless in this meta and now you want to nerf the two good ones because they are actually decent? -.-

mi ramfan5/14/2014, 12:09:29 AM15 votes

Glad to see you're finally addressing Nidalee.

Do you guys have any news on reworks of the "bottom of the barrel" champions like Poppy, Sion, Urgot, etc? Would be nice to know they're not totally forgotten.

cold ravioli5/14/2014, 3:05:11 AM12 votes

People seem to be missing something. Some of these changes aren't because someone is overpowered, it's because they're not fun to play against. I love Leblanc, but playing against her is misery. The same is true of Nidalee. Playing against the spear-onslaught of death simply isn't fun. Yes, Nidalee can be beaten. Statistically speaking, the game is pretty well balanced. But having fun is important to a game... because if it's not fun, people will stop playing.

flemflem5/15/2014, 11:10:14 PM7 votes

I have some questions I would like to ask. I Love Soraka as she is now, the changes that were made in this season, made her viable. The questions I would like to have answers to are:

  1. In Season 3 Soraka was almost unseen. So now that she can functionally play her mage role why such a hard nerf?

  2. In the release with the trinkets and the supports getting a buff, and reportedly Soraka was underperforming, Why weaken her main source of damage, which is not much due to her ratios, encumber her light form of cc, and perplex an already squishy champ?

  3. What do you want her to be, and will the nerfs be so hard, that she is unplayable, then once again go back to needing a buff?

I understood why the mana scaling was taken off. and due to her ratios the amount of ap and items needed to make her "overpowered" as some may think,(Soraka is actually Under powered) leaves her more vulnerable to any and all forms of attack.

Soraka has no form of escape, already moves slow, squishy, is always locked in place when casting any ability. The change of her passive took what little extra mr she offered.

These are some questions I was pondering.

It almost makes it seems like the players are being punished for trying to make a champion viable.

Limakoko8085/14/2014, 12:24:23 AM6 votes

I love playing LB, she was the first champion i tried since switching to midlane in the preseason, and i do agree that she needs tweaks.

Having said that, PLEASE keep her identity as that of an assassin. We already have a bunch of mages(although not all of them are viewed as viable) and im scared that if you guys try to focus on her mage patterns, it will ruin what makes her so fun. Which is, for me at least, high mobility that you try to find ways to outplay opponents, and high damage to make those squishies explode.

Honestly i feel that her late game is perfectly fine, mostly people just complaing about her laning phase because the lack of counterplay of an all in besides staying as fr away as possible and having really good reactions. Now i dont have trouble laning against lb often, but i can see how it could be frustrating for people because there has been many times where ive surprised my enemy by flash/ignite and killing them at level 2/3.

I dont believe she needs nerfs at all, but power redistribution would do alot for her and her opponents if done correctly. Honestly the only reason so much people hate he, despite her abysmal winrate, is because they play right into her strengths instead of taking advantage of her weaknesses.

For some strange reason a lot of the people who ive won against with her, and the complained about how op she is, are the players who would constantly die again and again because they dont learn from thei mistakes. I cannot tell you how many times ive killed someone who overextends without wards, or the squishy adc who facechecks then tells me in allchat "wow so op."

Lol i know the average person at my skill level isnt that knowledgeable, but its surprising how many people play against her with this going through their head: "instead of poking down the squishy burts assassin with no sustain, im going to all in her and complain when i die."

She has very clear weaknesses, the problem is certain parts of her kill pattern leaves a small window of counterplay. Its not impossible, but its definetly not easy to play against a good LB.

Zyngo5/14/2014, 10:37:39 PM6 votes

You're probably going to decide to nerf Braum after this first week because you see that he has a fairly high winrate and a very strong presence in team fights. But wasn't the whole point of his creation, making a tanky support that can really change a teamfight when played well?

The fact that he is being dominant in lane is not because he is OP, I think, but because people don't know how to play against him because he is new. Just like when Yasuo came out, and Vel'koz came out. Or any new champion that people need to learn the counterplay for. There are so few really good supports now that we can play, so as a support main I have to ask you, Riot, please don't nerf a new champion after just a week or two simply because people who can't play against it bitch and moan.

Let us have more than three viable top-tier supports. Let us have a manly tank if that is how we want to play our support. Thanks.

Remlap12235/14/2014, 12:09:01 AM5 votes

Houw about instead of nerfing champions into the ground (which has worked out so well in the past heavy sarcasm inbound) you bring the old champions that have been Olaf'd back into the game though making them viable again. The problem isn't the fact that Leblanc and Nidalee are overpowered, but the fact that they've been allowed to go unanswered for because simply every mid laner besides these Soraka Nidalee Leblanc Lulu Ziggs have been taken out of the game. If instead the focus on bringing these former awesome mid lane champs back into the game (Gragas TwistedFate Orianna Lux Anivia ) you'd get more variety. Same applies for bot lane Quinn Graves and top as well Aatrox Chogath Darius Gangplank Garen Olaf Tryndamere

Crackbateh5/14/2014, 6:17:37 PM4 votes

If you make Nidalee's spears like Teemo's mushrooms.. that would help balance her out a lot.

This way it keeps her poke potential, but reduces the frequency of it. Making it all the more important to land those spears and not just throw them whenever they are up.

Sir ArmaMalum5/14/2014, 12:02:42 AM4 votes

Was wondering when this was coming along, I really do appreciate these.

I'm wondering how much Lucian's pick rate is going to skyrocket with a Braum duo. Their passives combined are pretty obnoxious. Whether that's a good obnoxious or bad obnoxious I think we'll find out soon.

I'm excited to think of what changes Kha (evolved spikes are an easy pivot to move power around, as very few people like them imho) and Nidalee may get in the future, would love some separate "Let's Talk" threads on them. Well, more of them in Nid's case.

Are there any new developments for the 'Renekton bar' and the current state of fighters?