A quick suggestion for Renekton

Joxac·6/2/2014, 4:27:17 AM·18 votes·2,680 views

Alright, we all know renekton is pretty much the instalock go to champ for top lane. After all, his kit has a gap closer, escape, heal, and hard cc, as well as a steroid boost ult to tank/survive/shred, and don't forget that he doesn't use mana or energy, but uses the constantly replenishing fury to make these attacks stronger. Honestly I'm fine with his kit, it's his thing to be that super aggro top. The only issue I have is with his double dash.

Since he has to use 50 fury for most of his kit to be useful lets take a look at it.

His main choices for this use is to get extra heal from a trade (or use it to heal during the trade and with more damage) or to make his hard cc last a bit longer. Both of these are fine choices and you can make and both are situational. But then there's his dash. The 50 rage bonus is used for armor shred and some more damage, but why would anyone do that? Sure it might help your team in a fight, but getting a black cleaver would do the same. The dash is mainly a utility tool, although it still does ok damage for waveclear, who would use that 50 fury on some more damage on utility when it could be used on extra aoe and heal, or even a longer stun. Overall I believe Slice & Dice has no reason to be using 50 fury as it currently stands.

My thought is that instead of Slice & Dice giving extra damage and shred for 50 fury, make it so you have to have 50 fury to use the 2nd dash. The main reason that I see renekton as the bar for top lane is because he has 2 dashes on command in tandem with his natural tankiness, aoe clears and heal, and his hard cc, making him near impossible to punish for mistakes. Sure, he has to hit an enemy to dash a 2nd time, but realistically, in lane there will always be minions, and if the enemy is close enough to renekton he doesn't have to even go through them to dash twice. Making his 2nd dash cost 50 fury will actually make renekton have to choose between keeping his escape and doing less damage/sustain, or to use his fury on other abilities to do greater damage, but throwing away his escape.

It's just my thought, because from what I've read about the top lane situation is that most of the top laners will get buffs to compensate for renektons huge presence because riot doesn't want to just nerf him into not being used. This way his damage output isn't watered down, but now renekton players will have a drawback for making bad choices, much like how lee sin's safeguard has a higher cd and other issues when he uses it on minions and wards for risky plays.

EDIT: Regarding some feedback I just want to add this into the main post- While it will cost Renekton 50 fury to use the 2nd jump, his shred will remain (most likely buffed to compensate for cost). Also to note, his 2nd jump won't rely on contact with enemy units, therefore you can use the 2nd jump whenever you want, assuming you have the fury, making not only for sudden engages from great distances, but for reliable escape if the player sees an imminent threat that can't be fought.

20 Comments

RiotRiot Baconhawk6/3/2014, 6:19:28 AM5 votes

This seems an interesting idea. Would you propose taking the damage and shred off of his Slice and Dice?

(and grats on PotD!)

cawws and sizzles approvingly

CarbonWyre6/2/2014, 2:22:09 PM2 votes

A quick suggestion in paragraphs.

Sir ArmaMalum6/3/2014, 7:48:37 AM2 votes

As far as laning goes I do like this idea. It would force a good Renekton player to either save up almost full rage for the normal quick combo or stay in for a little, Q a minion wave for the rage, and then be able to dice back out. Forcing a little more trading would be nice, and Renekton is my favorite champion.

However, there is one problem I can see with this. Post laning chase. As you said, there are always minions in lane, and that means his mobility isn't taken down too many notches with the nice rage generation possibility. However, when those targets aren't there it's difficult to accumulate rage barring ult, which means initiating and/or chasing squishy targets would be incredibly difficult. Once the combo's down he has no real sticking power, and his Q and W are often required to keep him alive and relevant in a teamfight. If I jump in and pop my W-Q, most adc's and mages can simply walk away, as I'd have no second dash to follow up. Even if my ult was up, there would still be a decent window of time before I could use Dice.

Now I'm sure this can be worked around with other ideas, but that's the challenge eh? Making it all work. So, what are your thoughts on this particular problem? More burst? Instant 100 rage on his ult? Small slow on the first dash? Other? Not a real problem?

1LT Twitch6/3/2014, 8:16:44 AM2 votes

I second this!

AfroNinja68106/2/2014, 5:31:59 AM2 votes

I like this idea. I, personally, have never used my fury on an empowered Dice. In fact, as the page was loading, and as I was reading the first few lines, I came up with the same idea as you did. Having the second dash cost 50 fury causes several things:

  1. Renekton can no longer do the E, empowered W, empowered Q, E combo, which would do ABSURD damage and have no counterplay, as you are stunned and then he is back behind his minions. Now he must choose what ability(ies) he wants to empower, and whether or not to keep his escape (like you were saying)

  2. This might lower his escape potential by quite a bit. When I think of Renekton, I think of a very dive based, all-in fighter, and I think his escape is a little bit too much. Heck, sometimes I've engaged on the enemy with E, full comboed them, the jungler shows up and I just E right back out. Now, if Renek engages and something goes wrong, he won't have that guaranteed escape.

However, when he ults, he still gets that constant fury. So this doesn't hinder his teamfighting by very much, which is where he should be striving, not in 1v1s but in teamfights. This is crucial, as Renekton is designed as a teamfighter, diving the back line and doing lots of AoE damage. But, his kit is VERY GOOD for 1v1s aswell, which can cause an unhealthy gameplay experience for those trying to lane against him.

This video, starting at 6:40, explains more on the subject of Renekton and what should be done with him. The whole video is based around the champions of LoL and such, but there is a pretty long section on Renekton that I think illustrates a good way to balance him. But be warned, if Riot did say that they want to BUFF other top laners, instead of nerf Renekton, then this video may not seem relevant. But, just watch it you'll see what I mean.

ChaosThief6/3/2014, 2:08:45 PM1 votes

I play Renekton a lot, and it became frustrating for me to play ranked as him after LCS. I played him back in season 3 as a bruiser; which is almost terribad against the tops paired against him.

I would be fine with this, because I often would be fine with walking out after using fury W.

MackleDoge6/3/2014, 5:14:46 PM1 votes

Honestly, I don't like the direction of this change at all. If you treat the mandatory 50 fury cost just to use the second dash as if it was simulating mana, then it easily becomes the harshest mana gate in the entire game, especially considering that a good opponent can freeze the lane on their side and require you to use fury to unfreeze or play aggressive just to get enough fury to use your escape. Requiring over-extension in order to allow for a champion to use their escape mechanic is pretty awful in design.

I don't see how this could be interpreted as anything other than a direct nerf, which has already been addressed numerous times as not being the direction that Riot wants to take with adjusting top lane.

I Main Swain6/4/2014, 1:51:46 AM1 votes

that's actually a great idea, his lane combos are too basic right now. you just wait for your abilities to go off cd, then you dash, stun, spin, and dash away. they cant react in time 90% of the time, and they cant chase you very well either. this will make people think twice about their combos instead of just raping everybody and their dog (get it? wink).