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Let's talk about reforming the Rune System @Riot

mi ramfan·2/23/2014, 4:24:24 PM·29 votes·2,072 views

(cross post from GD)

Hello, everyone. Today I’d like to talk to you about one of the greatest blessings and greatest curses of League’s customization features, Runes. It’s a system with numerous positive effects for customization and player choice that also has several large problems that need to be addressed.

Currently, the Rune system is meant to serve as a vehicle for playstyle customization. The sheer number of runes available and the number of possible combinations does tend to help with this. It also is good for enabling niche playstyles to exist; most junglers other than Warwick, Fiddlesticks, Udyr, and Cho’gath would be unable to exist without runes simply because they wouldn’t have the armor or stats to survive the punishing early game jungle.

However, this system also has some very notable drawbacks. Rune pages are incredibly, incredibly expensive. Just buying a blank page costs 6300 IP. Then, buying a full set of 9 marks can run you anywhere between 1890 and 7200+ IP! A full set of Quintessences can run you anywhere between 1500 and 6150 IP.

Because the pages are so expensive, they’re especially punishing for new players. New players are busy trying to build their champion pool, and here they are running up against a system which is pretty opaque and hard to figure out, and has extremely high costs to the point where you can waste a LOT of IP very quickly. If a new player jumps into runes, they could end up wasting all their IP on tier 1 or 2 runes, which are just a blatant waste of IP. Or worse, they could buy up Tier 3 runes that aren’t actually helpful or even useful (Reduced death time quints, I’m looking at you), resulting in them throwing away IP for no gain whatsoever.

That’s a serious problem in and of itself, and the rune combiner isn’t helping. It supports the system of Tier 1 and 2 runes by allowing players to combine 3 to 5 weaker runes for a chance to get a stronger rune of the next higher tier. Unfortunately, since the rune you get is randomized, what you get could be just as worthless as what you combined to get it. All of this isn’t even mentioning the harm someone can do to a stolen or hacked account with the rune combiner; if a hacker thinks someone else is going to get the account back, they’ll spend the RP on skins and gifts, spend the IP on crap runes, and then use the Rune Combiner to destroy all the account owner’s rune pages.

The challenge, then, is to reform the rune system so that

  • Runes are more affordable for the average player
  • There are no runes which are an outright waste of money
  • New players can safely tinker with the rune system without worrying about their IP being wasted
  • Experienced players can still sink lots of IP into the rune system if they wish.

My proposed solutions

1.** Runes are too expensive for players to acquire**.

This is one of the most off-putting problems for new players. It simply costs too much IP to acquire a solid rune page with the current system.

That being said, it’s not unreasonable to have costs for runes. The costs need to be high enough to make people think about the runes they purchase, but low enough so that purchasing runes isn’t overly burdensome. A full set of any mark, seal, or glyph that’s in the 800 IP tier right now is over 7200 IP-you could get a champion or more for that price! Clearly, though, runes aren’t nearly as impactful or interesting as a champion, so why do they cost the same amount? Champions are even monetized, allowing you to bypass the IP gating with RP purchases; there’s no such system in place for Runes because that would start to cross the line into Pay to Win, a system which I think we all despise.

The best way to solve this problem is to simply reduce IP costs to a more reasonable level. I propose changing the IP costs such that a rune’s current IP price is the price to buy a full set of said rune. This will drastically reduce the IP input for filling in a rune page, without reducing the ability of players to customize their pages.

2.** Some runes are just flat out bad, and people can be tricked into buying them. ** This is more of a problem for new players then for us experienced players. There are a lot of runes in the rune system which are frankly bad. They serve no real purpose other than to waste IP. Those runes are noob traps and should be removed.

The difficult part is deciding which runes fall into this paradigm and which runes do not. To do that, we need to differentiate between noob trap runes and niche runes. Niche runes are useful on a few champions for a few specific scenarios, or they’re strong in cheese strategies (like people running entire pages of flat AD on Riven, for example). Noob trap runes, on the other hand, serve no legitimate purpose. They are almost always completely useless to the player and are there to suck up IP.

These, specifically, are the runes I believe to be noob traps right now:

Quintessences: Death time reduction, Experience, Energy/Energy Regen, Scaling Mana

Glyphs: Critical Damage, Mana/level, Energy/level

Seals: Mana/level, Energy regen/scaling energy regen

Marks: Crit Damage, Mana/level

I’d rather this thread not turn into a debate over “which runes are noob traps” although I suppose there’s a definite possibility it could happen. It is my opinion, though, that all of the above runes should be removed from the game and their owners refunded. I also recommend that base champion armor be buffed across the board, so that the Seal slot is filled up instead of being used for Armor every game. (Armor seals shouldn’t be removed, though; they should be a choice instead of being mandatory every game for every champion)

3.** New players are expected to immediately know which runes are good, and are overly penalized for not knowing which runes to buy.**

When you’re a pre-30 player, all you’re really focused on is leveling up and expanding your champion pool. You know that eventually you’re going to have to take care of the runes, but you just don’t feel like it at the moment. And it’s really way more fun to focus on improving your game and learning more champions than to worry about the stat boost in the background.

It’s difficult to tell the difference between the Tier 1, 2, and 3 runes. Sure, the Tier 3 runes give more stats, but they also cost way more precious IP. It’s not hard, then, for a newer player to invest in Tier 1 runes not understanding that they’re a waste of IP. Later, they might realize their mistake and try to use the Rune Combiner. That’s even worse, because the Rune Combiner just serves to reduce the number of runes owned by a player in a sadistic game of dice to determine if the player gets anything worthwhile back out.

For this reason, Tier 1 and Tier 2 runes as well as the Rune Combiner should be removed with any reform of the rune system, and owners of T1 and T2 runes should get refunds. Runes should then be locked out for any player below level 10 (to ensure all players are on an even playing field at low levels) and the new system of runes should become available at level 10.

While this change is a big step forward, another change should be made on top of it to ensure that new players get some help venturing into the dangerous waters of buying runes. It can feel like a futile exercise to buy runes as a newer player; you’re not sure if buying runes will even help you or what kind of impact they’ll have. You’re worried they’ll turn out to be a waste of IP, a resource you have precious little of.

Even with the cost reforms outlined above, new players will still be understandably apprehensive about the Rune system. That’s why I propose a new system of “Rune Credits” to slowly ease players into the Rune system without them having to invest IP, so that they can get a handle on the impact runes have and be more willing and confident when they invest IP later.

In this system, rune slots are unlocked in bursts instead of in individual slots, and each burst comes with a credit that allows the player to purchase one set of runes for the type of rune unlocked for free. For example, a sample level setup might look like this:

Level 10

  • Rune system unlocked.
  • Marks unlocked
  • Mark credit earned-spend in the store to acquire one set of Marks for free.

Level 15

  • Seals unlocked.
  • Seal credit earned-spend in the store to acquire one set of Seals for free.

Level 20

  • Glyphs unlocked.
  • Glyph credit earned-spend in the store to acquire one set of Glyphs for free.

Level 25

  • Quintessences unlocked.
  • Quintessence credit earned-spend in the store to acquire one set of Quintessences for free.

This system (or one like it) would allow new players to experiment for their first rune page without having to spend their own IP on the page. The next time they look to build a rune page, the experience from the first time around will be helpful to them in spending their IP wisely. Because of the reduced IP costs on the runes themselves, buying poor runes won’t be as punishing as it currently is.

Another possible addition to this system is to allow additional rune pages purchased to come with a credit that grants a free purchase of one set of marks, seals, glyphs, or quints. This will help to reduce the cost burden of buying additional rune pages by making buying more runes to fill the page cheaper.

Conclusion

If you’ve made it this far, good job. This is a really, REALLY long post-it took up 4 pages in the Google Doc I wrote it up in.

I’d really appreciate additional feedback on the ideas I posted here. Please post whatever you think about this rune reform, whether it’s constructive criticism, ideas of your own, or rage about me calling experience quints useless.

Please note that **according to WizardCrab, Riot is thinking about a rune overhaul **(although the plans are a while out and may or may not ever come to fruition). This post is intended to spur things along by injecting some fresh ideas from an outside perspective.

Here’s a TL;DR of my main points for people who can’t make it through the essay:

Strengths of the current system

  • allows character customization
  • effective IP sink
  • makes many playstyles more viable (jungling in particular)

Weaknesses of the current system

  • NOOB TRAP runes
  • Rune Combiner is pointless RNG that serves to waste even more of new players’ IP and time
  • IP costs are ludicrous and suck in IP at a crucial time when players are attempting to unlock more champions

My solutions

  • Reduce cost so 200/400/800 IP buys a full set of a given mark, seal, or glyph (1000/1500/2000 for a set of quints)
  • Remove tier 1 and 2 runes, and refund owners
  • Remove the Rune Combiner
  • Remove noob trap runes and refund owners
  • Allow players to earn credits by leveling up or buying additional rune pages that they can redeem for a set of a specific rune without paying IP

2/24/14 edit: We're at the very top of Community Beta as of this edit!

43 Comments

MXXIV2/23/2014, 10:30:06 PM9 votes

I wasted many IP on level I and II runes. It almost seems to be a trap for new players - just to take their IP.

Flannel Mannel2/23/2014, 5:04:50 PM5 votes

This is a really good idea. Runes are slightly expensive at the moment.

Magister Ragun2/23/2014, 9:35:10 PM5 votes

The Rune system right now is really bad. I understand that having Runes might be an importent element of Riot's buisness model (use money to buy these champs while you build up your runes with IP) and so I don't expect the price to drop a whole lot, but the truth is, if we need more than one set of seals, they need to make runes cheaper, or a huge swath of players will be discouraged by having to invest more into this system.

It seems strange to me that Rioters asked about the rune combiner earlier, and were surprised when it turned into a "let me explain how much runes are terrible" thread. Runes are a best a nessiaary evil, and its a huge barrier to new players enjoying the game. "Oh you want to jungle.. yeah.. about that..."

Nicarasu2/23/2014, 8:28:21 PM5 votes

I have two sets of runes, and can't afford to buy more. I'm level 30, still increasing my champ pool, and got some, well, substandard tier 3 runes (attack speed quints, I'm looking at you), and wasted a lot of IP. In order to be truly competitive I have to sink 15,000+ into runes, and that leaves me deciding to just sacrifice being truly competitive. And don't get me started on the absurdly high rune page cost.

shadwraith992/23/2014, 8:50:47 PM4 votes

Here's an idea, how about the option to buy a rune slot for lots of IP, maybe 1000-1500 per mark,glyph, or seal slot, and 3000-4500 per quintessence slot, and then getting all runes that fit in that slot for free. This will allow new players to experiment with different rune combinations while also costing lots of IP, but not as much as you would spend on bad runes that you never use anyway. So you start out with all the runes unlocked, each one unlimited amount, but you have no rune slots, you need to buy rune slots to use your free runes.

Calderweiss2/24/2014, 5:40:43 AM3 votes

I feel like we could have rune bundles for ip, and you would save overall on runes. An individual rune would cost more then a single rune in the bundle, and we could just eliminate tiered runes. That could help lower levels learn to last hit.

WereScrib2/24/2014, 7:40:21 AM3 votes

Honestly. I think what really needs to happen is an initial rune setup, similar to Dawngate.

Basically, there is a universally useful rune page. If nothing else happens, giving everyone Attack Damage Reds, MR blues, Armor Yellows and lets just say Health Quints would at least give starting players something to keep that is pretty much useful across the board for all champions, while not being overly specialized. (Attack Damage reds on an AP mid aren't actually a bad choice. So don't say they are. A bit of extra last-hitting never hurt anyone)

Of course, an actual changes to the rune system goes in, yes. Just, all the yes.

Oh, and dump the rune combiner, throw away Tier 2 completely, and eh. Well tier 1 are incredibly cheap so why not keep them if you don't overhaul price.

Im bad at adc2/23/2014, 10:52:55 PM3 votes

I think they should put dodge runes back in and everything would be good. Jax

Sire Hippington2/24/2014, 2:31:22 AM3 votes

I agree with most of ur post, but there are some more things about runes that should get looked at:

The Rune balanceing: u did mention it, but i think it's very important and want to highlight it. In an ideal case, all runes u can buy should be viable, no Rune should be flat out better than another, wich currently isn't the case. There are some runes that are mostly usless(ad glyphs ftw), and some that are just mandatory(helo armor seals).
Especially scaleing runes need some buffs.

The Rune priceing: besides that they need to get ovrall less expensive, i also don't understand why a flat-ad-quint has a diffrent price than a scaleing-ad quint. They(in theorie) should bove be as viable, but if one costs more, it gives the impression that it's better than the other one. All Quints should have the same price, same for Marks/Seals/Glyphs

I also wouldn't mind some more runes, like hybrid vamp, or %ad/ap

Travaran2/24/2014, 6:19:10 AM2 votes

I'M SAYING THIS IN CAPS SO HOPEFULLY SOMEONE WILL START READING THIS LOL PLEASE DO! Ruble looks like a pretty cool champion but what is with his fire attack? don't get me wrong its cool and powerful but its a terrible animation! I've seen better flame effects from 198 star wars games lol like if you have some ability animations you would like to have changed.

Koobadoobs2/23/2014, 5:28:04 PM2 votes

I don't want to turn this into an argument about noob traps but the crit damage runes can be really fun sometimes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpIiEhL-U00)

These are all really good ideas though. I'd love to see this.

Death to Heavies2/23/2014, 9:43:33 PM2 votes

Well despite your complaining I do not foresee any of your suggestions coming true other than maybe the rune combiner getting taken out. You are not spose to hit 30 with a full set of runes. It is fully intentional that you should have to wait to get your runes and being that you've probably been playing for a while you should know that. Riot set up the rune system clearly as a goal to work towards and I don't know why you would think of it as something they would just give you for free. the runes are only bought with ip because they intended it as something you can't just buy to get ahead you have to actually play to get.

Basic Payne2/24/2014, 12:04:29 AM2 votes

Personally, I feel like Riot should really just give new players all the 450 IP champions for free, and at level 10 they get all tier 1 runes, and level 20, their tier 1 runes will all turn into tier 2 runes.

This would really help new players progress into the game easier, while also giving them a nice intro to the game so they can try different types of champs with low skill caps. New players typically stick to co-op vs. ai to begin with, so they would be earning ip gradually to build up to ther tier 3 runes, and some new champions they may have tried out during the weekly rotation.

~~

Another suggestion I have is that you could maybe buy the tier 1/2 runes, and then when you go to purchase the tier 3 version of that rune, you are refunded the ip you spent on the tier 1 version, giving you a discounted price.

Rhyto2/24/2014, 2:56:58 AM2 votes

I like the method, especially the unlocking of certain sets of runes throughout playing and I can't even delete the runes I have and especially when your maxed out you can't do anything else.

Hirok02/24/2014, 5:32:29 AM2 votes

  1. Taking 30 T1 runs for like 1000 ip is not bad at all. They are a little under T3 stats and a fully functional compromise to allow players to have a half-effect runepage while loading up on champions. They can always chose to go 0 runes for a while or charge into runes first. Its their choice. Don't make it for them.

  2. Here, let me croos out the ones that didn't belong on the list:

"Quintessences: Death time reduction, Experience, Energy/Energy Regen, Scaling Mana

Glyphs: Critical Damage, Mana/level, Energy/level

Seals: Mana/level, Energy regen/scaling energy regen

Marks: Crit Damage, Mana/level"

You need to play more champions. Some of these are very niche indeed, but very useful to specific champions.

  1. I'm all for reducing the prices a little, as in maybe reduced to 75% of current value, not to 10%. I honestly don't care though. I have plenty of runes I want to buy and am saving for, but I don't mind dishing out champion-prices for something that helps any champion I play.

  2. Why would you section off rune unlocking order? Alternating unlocks lets you slowly understand where each's strong points are.

  3. "Remove noob trap runes and refund owners" No. You are asking to take something away from people. Just treat it like a limited rune.

  4. "Remove the Rune Combiner" Yes. Or change it so you can pick the result.

  5. "IP costs are ludicrous and suck in IP at a crucial time when players are attempting to unlock more champions" You get matched with people near your level most of the time. They have the same problem. Some have 5 champions, some have one or two and are a little more buffed. Its a choice thing that doesn't need fixing.

  6. "I also recommend that base champion armor be buffed across the board, so that the Seal slot is filled up instead of being used for Armor every game." While that does touch on the situation, it creates a paradox. By raising armor, you need to adjust other stats too to keep balance. Perhaps that means raising magic resist. But now the game prgresses slowly. So lets increase everyone's damage. Then theres factors like items and masteries with % ignore for defences, etc etc.

Angry Monster2/24/2014, 6:25:17 AM2 votes

i really dont care about the OP post.

But i want to know where the damn s4 rune changes are. You know the ones that were supposed to hit in feb?

Snailed2/24/2014, 9:29:39 AM2 votes

My god this is a ridiculous post..to think it needs fixing.. If your level 30.. you don't care anymore about runes..Once you have them you have them forever..So it takes you one season to get some runes.. why is that a problem? It gives you a reason to play the game.. that and you learning a champ better before you get into ranked. IMHO people go into ranked WAYY too early and don;t have the proper clues about how to win this game as it is..

I happen to think the way this game levels up is very good. It slowly gives you an understanding of the runes and mysteries as you unlock them..

Also the idea to unlock runes as you pay is great..gives you a good reason to play lots of games..

If you complain about it then you probably should just play Dota2 and be done with it..go away..LoL is fine as it is IMHO.

It doesn't take a hell of a lot of time to get decent runes..

True the runes are bit stale for Yellows at the moment.. but that may change in time..

ModCaptainMårvelous2/24/2014, 4:23:51 PM2 votes

Personally I think the easiest way to fix this is (as you said) remove T1 and T2 entirely while greatly lowering the price of T3 and getting rid of level requirements. As it stands, T1 only has a place because they're so cheap you can easily fill up any rune page with them. T2 are an absolute trap as they are fundamentally worse than T3 and yet fairly expensive. T3 are pretty damn expensive (as stated) and you'll have to fill out around 10k+ IP to do decent in one role, not counting champions who need specific rune pages.

In addition, just a small list of random things that could make the rune system more friendly/alternative ideas:

  • Discounts for buying runes in bulk. IE: Buy 9 Marks for the price of 6 or 7. Would certainly make it easier to fill out "generic" rune pages for certain roles.

  • Make all runes function like quintessences and only have three slots per page. Put in multiple function runes so that people don't feel the loss of specialized rune builds, such as 3 Damage Reds, 3 Crit reds, 3 armor pen reds.

  • Rune combiner can actually combine runes for more unique playstyles. IE: +3% Crit chance + 2 Armor pen = One Rune with 1.5% Crit and 1 Armor pen. Might cause more unbalance but could allow for some truly unique sets.

  • Ditch runes overall and make slots what you buy. For example, you are given a full runepage of all T1 slots. However each IP "upgrade" lets you use T2 and T3 runes while giving you access to all the rune in that slot available.

  • Get rid of runes or at least allow for a "runeless" queue for ranked/normal so that there is more of a basis for raw skill as opposed to who has the BiS runes for the role they get.

Good post though, I really enjoy a well written and well thought-out discussion!

Letler2/24/2014, 3:09:14 PM1 votes

Tier 1 and 2 runes removed.

Also make seals glyphs and marks clear at what their strengths are supposed to be.

Sure you can AP Seals but AP Glyphs give you better stats. This isn't clear, and it isn't easy to find out via the current store set up.

ShadowNinetails3/9/2014, 5:26:35 AM1 votes

So I was kicking around Infinite Crisis for awhile because I was burned out of LoL and found that I had a beta key for it because I own Batman: Arkham Origins. They have a system of stat modifiers that's a lot like our Runes but with a couple good twists:

  1. There are several pre-packaged sets that you can use for free (when I was playing as Batman, I could choose from about 10 sets iirc). Each set was focused on different things like early assassination, overall tankiness, late game damage, etc. This let you try out different things with heroes and see them from different angles to find what works for you with absolutely zero investment aside from your time.
  2. There were mods that not only affected the stats of your hero, but also the stats and costs of the items you purchased. Imagine a rune (we'll say it's a Quint for now) that granted you Infinity Edge's crit damage passive on a BF Sword. Once you upgrade that BF to IE, you still gain the added AD and crit chance from the other items, but if you upgraded to BT or Mercurial instead, you lose that effect. This would create a situation where getting that BF Sword early means a LOT more for that Jinx or Tryndamere that got a couple early kills, but is a gamble because falling behind means you fall even further behind because you gave up an AD rune for the chance. Think of an Amumu being able to shave off 100g on the upgrade cost of his Spirit Stone, or Frostfang generating 6g/10 from 4 and 12g for Tribute from 10. Think of Hexdrinker's recharge time being cut to 70 seconds from 90. These are perks that would easily make me think twice about 13 Armor being mandatory on everyone. They would make runes something that rewards forethought and knowledge of your champion and their power spike items vs. the enemy and their power spike items. It would make runes something worth talking about all the time rather than "This guy in Korea swapped two of his MR glyphs for mana regen! OMG!"
Kosmicosis2/24/2014, 5:13:59 PM1 votes

I get the feeling that when people say "new players" in this thread, what they really mean is "my smurfs".

Noam Braumsky2/24/2014, 6:23:05 PM1 votes

I hope this happens. I'm still trying to make out a page of runes, and it's taking me months. Curse you tier 2 runes!

Shooty McSnipe2/24/2014, 8:41:50 PM1 votes

Tier 1 and two runes are a waste of time , but as far as others being too expensive, you have to spend your IP on something... by time you hit 30 you should have a few champions you like fully purchased for free , and at least a set of multipurpose runes , and just change marks from AD to AP for roles.

Play more and upgrade from there. I don't see an issue with how they are done right now, the "combiner" thing was always a joke though.

Meyvn2/25/2014, 8:57:21 AM1 votes

How about instead of unlocking marks, glyphs, and seals at certain levels, just have all level 1 runes available for new players. When you get to summoner level 10, the runes evolve to level 2, and level runes 3 at 20. In addition, you could only buy runes appropriate for your summoner level. Maybe also have a suggested layout for ADC, support, etc. This should cut some of the IP costs. Oh, and I like the idea of a bundle discount.

I SUPPORT YOU2/24/2014, 6:57:44 AM1 votes

If they have rune combiner my suggestion is they charge you to combine 2 different runes to make a rune have 2 effects. It would make that more valuable not to mention give players a bit more flexibility to play different styles. any thoughts? (sorry if I went a little off topic)

TooJacked2/25/2014, 12:52:58 PM1 votes

Interesting read, I believe that they should definitely revamp the rune system.

Although when I was new,I did some research before I bought runes so I never had a problem of wasting it on T1 - T2 Runes or pointless T3 runes. I do agree that they are pointless and you should be able to re-sell runes at any time to get your IP back. I would also agree that it is stupid expensive; just for 3 Life Steal Quints for my ADC rune page cost 6k+ which is almost the same as a 6300 IP Champ (and I'm aware Riot does this for financial reasons or else we wouldn't have an amazing game to play for free.

I basically saved all my IP until I got to level 30 and than I bought 4 Rune pages + 4 full tier 3 Runes. I have a Basic ADC , AP, Top Rune page and a special Akali page just so her passive procs at lv 1.