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I will never build Ardent Censer.

Mârty·6/21/2014, 1:40:30 AM·13 votes·7,526 views

Hi!

I've been a Janna main for three seasons now, and I'm here to talk about my thoughts on the new item.

This item is a really cool attempt at giving traditional supports some itemization choice. Unfortunately, it's never going to find a slot in my build.

The passive is really cool, and at a glance, it seems to provide all the stats a traditional support would love. Some AP to scale their abilities, CDR, a bit of mana regen, and movement speed to help with roaming. It sounds really good on paper, and I was really interested to give it a shot.

Before I could get in a game, I thought about how I could fit it into my build.

  • When would I want this item?

  • How would I make sure I nail that 40% CDR cap, without going over?

  • Is it worth an item slot?

My masteries give me 10% CDR. I usually get an unholy grail because the mana regen and 20% CDR are invaluable on a traditional support, leaving me at 30%. Finishing my Frost Queen's Claim rounds me off nicely, and very early, at 40%, while giving me a nice active.

If I want to include the new item, I have to take 10% cdr off somewhere in my build. I really like the active of Frost Queens, as well as the increased gold generation from being able to farm minions while proccing the passive, so I'm reluctant to remove that. I chose to substitute athene's with the ardent censer, and find some other way for that last 10% CDR. The results were rather underwhelming.

I had the option of getting an early chalice, and turning it into a crucible later on in the game, which would round me off at 40%, while still providing me with really nice mana regen.

This test build costs:

  • 2200 FQC
  • 800 Sightstone
  • 2200 Ardent Censer
  • 2450 Mikael's Crucible

For a total of 7650 gold.

7650 gold would get me 40% CDR, enough mana regen to sustain me in prolonged fights, and 80 AP, a 25% attack speed passive buff on my shield, and a cool (but long cd) active on mikael's, working like a cleanse/heal. and some movement speed.

Instead, I choose to build like this:

  • 2200 FQC
  • 800 Sightstone
  • 2600 Athene's unholy grail

At this point, for 5600 gold, I have reached a 40% CDR cap, and I have enough mana regen to sustain myself. I reach the CDR cap and mana regen 2k gold earlier than with the previous build, AND I have 110 AP, on top of 25 MR. The only thing I'm lacking here is 20 AP, the 25% attack speed passive buff, and the mikael's active.

1600 - Needlessly Large Rod

This puts me at 7200 gold build, and provides me with an extra 80 AP.

This extra 80 AP puts me 110 AP higher than the other build at the same gold cost, while also contributing towards the building of a deathcap.

1700 - Death Cap

The Death Cap round off puts me at a final cost of 8900 gold, and a total of around 280 AP.

If I get a rod on the other build, I'll have a total of 160 AP, at a final cost of 9450 gold.

A summary of the two builds:

Build 1.

Total cost: 9450 Gold

Cost for 40% CDR and lasting Mana Regen - 7650 Gold

Stats:

  • 160 AP
  • 8% MS
  • Enough Mana Regen
  • 40% CDR
  • Mikael Active
  • Ardent Passive
  • 40 MR

Build 2.

Total cost: 8900 Gold

Cost for 40% CDR and lasting Mana Regen -** 5600 Gold**

  • ~290 AP
  • 40% CDR
  • 25 MR
  • Enough Mana Regen

I will ALWAYS opt for build #2. The main reason for this is how quickly I can rush that 40% cdr, and the mana regen. On a traditional support, especially Janna/Nami, nothing feels worse than running out of mana. I value 40% cdr rush tons more than a 25% attack speed boost and mikael's active.

The extra AP also scales my shield, slow, and heal. The extra heal from the AP on this build far surpasses the heal on the crucible. While it can't cleanse CC, it applies to everybody on my team.

The gold cost of the other build, it takes way too long for me to actually reach the full potential. How often will a support get 9450 gold to round off their perfect build?

My final thoughts on the item

It's really cool, but I can't see myself building it because it doesn't provide me with what I need early. CDR is a stat that I want, ASAP. I HAVE to build a chalice, no matter what traditional support I'm playing.

I always feel that chalice is required. Because I'm building a chalice, I only have two build options. Unholy Grail has the 20% cdr, and insane mana regen in a prolonged team fight with its passive.

Unless I am specifically aiming for a SUPER late game build, I will not be buying this item as a core part of my support build.

While people might opt for the ardent censer/crucible build, I will always take the path of unholy grail.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but I've made my case.

TL;DR

If I choose to build ardent censer, I don't have the mana regen and CDR I need until later in the game. I also delay my deathcap significantly, which is core to the utility scaling on my kit.

Therefore, I will always go build #2 over build #1.

86 Comments

RiotRiot Baconhawk6/23/2014, 6:54:24 PM10 votes

So I know I'm a Gold I scrub but I don't always build Chalice... oftentimes I finish FQC and Sightstone and go boots 2 before looking at any other items. Since I'm a Karma main, though, perhaps my build is dictated by my kit/playstyle...or maybe my MMR ;)

cawws and flies about overhead

(grats on Post of the Day!)

Goumindong6/21/2014, 4:14:12 AM6 votes

This is a problem with support itemization in general, not just Ardent Censor.

Ardent Censor's problem is that it doesn't really have any power in it.

Angry Monster6/21/2014, 2:19:04 AM4 votes

good numbers

The only problem is that u are not giving a numerical worth to Mikael Active. The pros think that on a support it is worth more than alot of other things.

I am not saying you are wrong though. it really is personal preference

The Yetii Rider6/21/2014, 5:49:59 PM4 votes

It's funny how you mention the 25 MR on Athene's as a highlight in your Athene's build but completely disregard the 40 MR offered by Mikael's Crucible in its build.

RiotRiot Sotere6/24/2014, 3:32:59 AM3 votes

Hiyas!,

Your build is substantially different than my own Janna build. I opt for the item 3069 into item 3190 start. Glad to see you're making use of that AP scaling. I never plan on getting enough money to complete a item 3089. :( I also don't value mana as highly as you. I regret not having it every game but I still don't build much towards it.

Supports want to maximize their CDR as soon as possible, which makes them highly value items with CDR. Then they reach the cap, and many of the attractive items have CDR in their statline, and that portion would become wasted.

Oversimplifying matters a bit: if item 3504 had no CDR, it wouldn't be an option until after the 40% cap. This way, people may find a way to fit it into their build if they value all of the stats on the item and want to increase the power of their allies.

We do recognize that the CDR crunch is something we need to resolve. Ardent Censer should be a neat new item, but it's not going to be for everyone and it certainly doesn't solve support itemization.

Sire Hippington6/23/2014, 10:40:39 PM3 votes

Ardens Censer got the same problem as Morellonomicon for me: the mana-regen

Neither item offers the sustain i need, so i would need a chalice anyway.
But Athenes and Mikaels both offer enough manasustain on their own, so the mana-sustain of other items becomes somewhat obsolete.
So the only viable(for me) option is Morellos+Ardens, wich leaves me with no defens stats at all... Overall, getting Athenes or Mikaels for mana always seems the better option, as u gain sufficient sustain from just one item and some tankiness and cdr on top, wich is prettymuch all i want as support

Erockandroll6/23/2014, 7:19:37 PM2 votes

Support itemization is weird. Especially with the gold gen Items, along with the mana sustain item. Which guaranties you will be flushed with CDR.

The most noteable thing with item 3098 is when you finally upgrade it to item 3092, The Tribute passive is no longer disabled on minion kill. I usually upgrade this if I have to transition from a support to more of an APC.

I am not sure I want to take item 3174 anymore since the MR and Mana regen have been nerfed. If I don't need the MR I would rather take, item 3165 Which is slightly cheaper, and the grievous wounds will hurt the enemy sustain.

Try combiningitem 3504 item 3165 it will combined most of the stats of the current grail with additional utility. If you need extra damage as a harass support, try item 3151. The %HP will cause pretty good harass damage even without much AP. And the magic pen helps your base damage to have more effect.

Hyrum Graff6/23/2014, 7:15:56 PM2 votes

2200 FQC
800 Sightstone
2200 Ardent Censer
700 Forbidden Idol
For a total of 5900 gold, you have reached your cdr cap. Is this enough mana for you to sustain yourself?

If so, you can go straight to your deathcap from there, and wait until later to pick up mikael's.

MEMEME6706/22/2014, 10:08:57 PM1 votes

Wait...what? You're not going to build an item that can provide substantial benefit to your team in teamfights, because it doesn't provide stats YOU want?

That's just not how support works. If you want to be selfish, I suggest you play a different role, as although item builds have changed since season 2, the overall idea has not.

You give up gold (and therefore the effects of items) in order to make your team better overall. At the core, that is what the support role does in league, and Censer fits that.

Also, did you consider removing the 10% cdr from masteries? This frees up the cdr that you feel you need free in order to not go over the 40% cap, and doesn't cost you any gold in your build.

Linna Excel6/21/2014, 3:36:58 AM1 votes

I never finish frost queens. I sit on the second one and sell it when I'm at getting close to a full build or I need a core item now and it has made up for its cost.

Second if the item is worth it, it's fine to go over the CDR limit, it just becomes less cost effective when you do.

Finally, if your ADC knows how to use the buff, then Ardent Censer becomes more valuable. So it's probably more useful gold and higher.

Cuix6/24/2014, 4:41:08 AM1 votes

Janna really doesn't need THAT much mana regen. Chalice regen is necessary if you're spamming or sieging, but she doesn't particularly want to do either. 20 mana per 5 from FQC and Censer is already a lot, and the Meditation mastery is a fine choice. The 10% CDR from masteries is similarly non-essential. If you really want the Intelligence mastery, then that + item 3158 + FQC + Censer is a neat 40% at a fairly low cost.

Papy Mougeot6/24/2014, 8:40:26 AM1 votes

I'd say you should compare FQC vs ardent censer. The gold generation stop at frostfang so you don't need to finish FQC to get the max gold. Then you have to choose between those 2 items to get your last 10% cdr. I think in some game you should get Ardent censer instead of FQC.