What makes a support?

Kikirino·6/21/2014, 11:40:56 AM·4 votes·3,417 views

Why can't just anyone support?

Malz has a silence and a dot he can safely use to harass and a suppression ult.

Ashe has a free vision ability, permaslow AA and a cc ult.

Heim can zone with his turrets.

Anivia has a wall, stun and ult slow.

Jarvan has an AS steroid, a knockup and a slow.

Ryze has a stun and good poke.

Galio has a slow, a MS steroid, a shield and a AoE taunt ult.

Lissandra has a lockdown ult, AoE cc (I think was a support at one time... might be a bad example)

But you see my point. Why can't these Champions be played as supports? What does it take for a Champion to be labeled 'support'?

31 Comments

RiotPhreak6/21/2014, 8:41:13 PM12 votes

What players typically use is "I can do useful things even without farm."

I don't expect Corki or Draven to ever be used as supports, simply because their "base utility" is not high enough.

The secondary requirement is being able to stomach the 2v2 laning phase. Champions like Annie have decent base damage and a good stun. She lanes pretty well. Morgana can pretty easily acquire gold and moderate harass with Tormented Soil while also having good trading/picking power with Dark Binding.

Angry Monster6/21/2014, 9:13:20 PM6 votes

Their are 3 types of supports

Off mage. The lux/annies of the world that are going to be a late game source of damage.

Mage Supports usually have have decent early game numbers is some sort of damage that turns into scaling CC Morg or Sona with her ult.

Tank support just have to get beefy so almost any champ can fill this role.

The problem is that ADC players are not comfortable/ able to play without someone helping to peel in team fights. When u take a non tradtional support u are not looking to protect the adc but make a play for the team.

Not all champs are good for supporting though. Ashe is a good example of a feast or famine champ as a support. Her ult is not great unless used a close o\to max range but then u are not there for the team fight. Needs to build expensive damage items without have a real income source. champs like this just do not make good supports

Tulare6/21/2014, 6:46:11 PM3 votes

I don't know what it takes for a champion to be labelled as a support but I frequently try different champs in the role. Ashe support was actually a thing for a while there. I play Galio in support more than I play him in mid. I see Lissandra there from time to time and she's effective.

For what it's worth, you've also forgotten Urgot and Aatrox. Urgot reduces his target's damage with AA's, shreds armour with his E, and has a long-range, point-and-click slow. Aatrox has a good poke that also slows, a dive with a knock-up, and loads of sustain as long as you don't mind pushing the lane.

ElJanitorFrank6/21/2014, 8:44:35 PM3 votes

I've seen everyone you just listed used as support. But for most of them, they need some CS or kills to be relevant. It's a waste of potential for a lot of people. Galio for example, he's an OK support, but he gets so many benefits from actually getting kills and CS that it's wasted potential. And a lot of the poke (I.E. Malzahar) have a lot of potential to take the kills accidentally.

12tales6/21/2014, 1:53:51 PM3 votes

Supports are effective 2v2 laners who function throughout the game with minimal gold income.

Alternatively, supports are champions who aren't completely and utterly outclassed by Thresh.

More specific champion choices are generally informed by the meta at large - in a lane swap meta, ranged supports are more valuable. In a meta with tank junglers and top laners, supports without initiation are able to compete. In a meta with immobile, squishy hyper carries along the lines of Twitch and Kog'Maw, hard engage supports like Leona and Annie are particularly valuable.

Jivira6/21/2014, 7:05:21 PM2 votes

<3 Support love! Your team makes a champion a good support. If the team works with the support instead of flaming them, then there are many fun options. (This is a game after all, so being "the best" isn't the only option.)

Nortwin6/21/2014, 3:32:08 PM2 votes

Anyone with good CC can be a support, but there are always better options.

What does it take for them to be labeled as support? Diamond players meta. Support Gragas demonstrated this.

Remlap12236/24/2014, 12:08:45 PM1 votes

To be able to play a champion as a support they need to do 5 things.

Be able to harass and at least soft CC the enemy
Be able to function on little farm
Be able to boost some aspect of the ADC's kit
Be able to utilize a support build effectively
Be able to do enough damage to secure a kill for an ADC, but not steal it

If they fall under that criteria, they can support. It's for the same reason I detest Annie Blitzcrank Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Kayle and Teemo support. Although I really shouldn't talk since I play Gangplank support quite often, and he's my main pick in ranked. I also enjoy Nautilus , JarvanIV , Shen , and Yorick support as well.

MackleDoge6/21/2014, 8:53:13 PM1 votes

It isn't just about what the champion kit has for laning. It also needs utility and the ability to function well off of limited gold or less levels. Also need to take into account the way that the supporting champion works with the carry roll of the lane, you can take a good carry and a good support and still get a bad lane because they don't work well together.

That being said, I've had Anivia, Ryze, and Galio support before and all of them knew what they were doing and how to lane with me as those champions. In those cases the Galio support was great throughout the game, and generally I like getting a Galio support if it fits the team composition. But in both the Anivia and Ryze support games, they fell behind really hard and became completely useless. Ryze had no farm, no money, and none of the items he needed to be effective, so he became nothing more than a ward slave and a free kill for the enemy team. The same thing happened with the Anivia supports, but in that case they could at least bring the stun and utility of the wall.

Shinjusuke6/21/2014, 9:29:58 PM1 votes

Just wanna go on record as saying I've won every game I've played as Malz support (granted that's like under 10, but)

There's too many people who think they're "pros-in-the-making" yet won't play anything but what pros play.

A few champs make great supports, pros just don't risk money on them.

Penguin Eclipse6/21/2014, 10:06:50 PM1 votes

For me, a support must have a heal/shield of their own (items do not count.) Otherwise I do not consider them a support and will not play them.

Linna Excel6/22/2014, 2:03:02 AM1 votes

Phreak has a pretty good definition - works well without farm and can survive in a 2v2 lane. I think I'd add has CC as well.

IMO as of now Ashe probably can support with Essence Reaver and Hurricane. Figure that keeping 3 champs on permaslow isn't bad. And if she can get fed enough to build a damage item to be an off ADC, even better.

Anivia is I champ I asked about before and has a major problem with mana issues I've been told.

Ryze probably could support, haven't tried it tbh. I don't think he'd be able to build enough items though to be effective... he needs mana.

No one plays Galio.

Lissandra probably is too item dependent to be a support. I haven't looked into her.

Shinjusuke6/23/2014, 5:21:13 AM1 votes

I think, of course, if you play Malzahar support like any other support, no, he definitely falls short. But that's like playing Garen as an ADC and expecting results.

Malz is a good support in the respect that he, if played right, and with the right ADC champ pick, can force the other laners out easier than most any support I've encountered. His pre-6 peel is obviously lacking, but, if you're taking mana regen runes and rushing a chalice (buying wards to compliment obviously), peeling shouldn't be much of an issue.

Pre-6 guide to Malzahar support:

Max his E, and let your ADC decide when they want to push, or when the wave is nearing tower. Cast E on frontline minion, have your ADC push it through the wave for fast clear, zoning enemies away from their CS, and an added point of focus for the enemy laners.
Assuming you know ADC ranges (which you should if you're doing ANYTHING off-meta in bot lane), place your W where the enemy ADC will have to stand to farm, forcing them to another position or away from CS altogether. They will almost always avoid the pool pre-Bloodthirster, and if they don't they eat free damage.
Each time you zone with W, try to wiggle into range for an E if you know you won't be using it to push off your turret sometime soon/push their turret. Furthermore, if you know getting into E range is too risky, harass with Q instead. If nothing else, you buy a second or two of time that might force the enemy ADC to miss a CS trying to dodge the delayed skillshot.
Always go for an E when your passive is up, or if you're able to chain a Q-E-Passive onto the ADC. You force them to waste SOOOO much time trying to avoid or kill that little minion.
Before 6, you probably won't kill their duo, unless they engage on you while your Q is up (a really stupid idea). The point is not to try to kill them, the point is to try to force them off cs and out of lane as much as possible, which is very often as Malzahar.
If they DO engage hard on you pre-6, it's either situation A) Where no amount of peel was going to save your 100hp adc who's in a bad position, or situation B) Where as soon as they do, burst the hell out of their adc. If your lanes are going even, you will more than likely scare away the adc, allowing you and your adc to focus down their hard engage support, or get their adc so low while they've got their kill vision on that they're going to have to either recall or B immediately. If it's a hard engage that separates from their ADC to do it, like Leona or thresh for example, you'll have to make the decision whether to Q the support if they are a threat, or Q the adc so they can't close in. Usually, you'll Q the adc unless the support is way out of position.

After 6, obviously, it's just free kills all day if you time your ult right. Wait for a hard engage from their support (as only a few ADCs can stop Malz's ult), and ult the support for a free kill. Or, if their support has little in the way of stopping your ult or is too far away, ult the ADC when they're in a poor spot.

Some sidenotes:

Malzahar with the CDR to spam up Voidlings as they die can solo dragon, you require Chalice to do so. If you force out your opponents, and you have (IIRC) 20% CDR and chalice, you and your ADC can solo Dragon without any HP loss.
Malzahar with most of the usual support items (and yes you do need sightstone whenever you play a support) and a DFG can still burst down or almost burst down a champion. Learn your damage numbers, your picking power is very strong.
You still even as a support have some of the strongest pushing power in the game, and you don't even have to take CS to do it. When they're out of lane, if you and your adc wanna push, you can chunk their turret each time they have to B.
NOT ALL ADCS are good with Malzahar, don't pick him first unless you know your adc and don't pick him wihtout it being a good ADC matchup for you. Draven (riskier), Ez, Jinx, Luc, Ashe, Cait, and Corki are good adc's to lane with.