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Show Your Support for Lee Sin

Simon Plumaj·3/8/2014, 6:25:58 PM·19 votes·1,809 views

Please show your support for Lee Sin in this thread. Reign in your offensiveness - yelling and cursing won't help your cause, and probably just angry the people whom you are looking to for support.

I personally think Lee Sin is an incredibly balanced champion. I have my share of difficult games against him, and I was never quite good playing as him, but my own lack of skill shouldn't come into play here. He is a champion beloved by all.

As Woofaira said on reddit: "[Lee Sin is] one of the most balanced and well designed champions as he is right now. He's one of the few champions you can play with or against in this game and say "oh, that was a good outplay" rather than it being a foregone conclusion of champion pick. I see a Lee Sin on the enemy team and say "If he's good I'm going to have a problem," not "That champion gives me problems." I feel that's an important distinction and the only champion that he shares that with that comes to mind right now is LeBlanc."

I couldn't agree more. There is a general feeling that the game is becoming "dumbed down" (I see the word 'homogenized' being thrown around a lot).

I understand that your balance team must face many challenges, and has numerous factors to consider (skilled players, unskilled players, the bosses at Tencent, personal bias against champions, and a thriving e-sports community). There are details that I don't understand, because I don't have the responsibility of creating a good experience for the largest MOBA playerbase in the world. However, what a non-trivial portion of your audience really seems to want is balance and diversity, and I believe Lee Sin embodies these values quite well.

With that being said, I respectfully ask that you reconsider the proposed changes to Lee Sin.

Those who agree, please show your support here. Riot has wanted us to embrace the Community Beta for some time. Let's use it as a positive force.

46 Comments

Jingerbeardman3/8/2014, 9:24:17 PM15 votes

Most people here are overlooking many aspects as to why these changes are happening. Saying that lee sin is balanced is rather untrue. Lee is a champ who has no definitive role he can go top, mid, jungle, and even support and still excel. He can build to be a tank, a carry, an assassin, and a fighter. Does he have and incredible skill cap? yes he does, but that alone does not justify the state he is currently in. Lee sin is one of the most mobile champions in the game and some of the highest potential damage early game. But he also has one of the most unsatisfying late games as well. You could snowball out of control early game and feel invincible until suddenly you hit a brick wall and you feel like the weakest most useless person on your team. That is what these changes are aimed at changing.

If you take a step back and remove your bias for a moment and compare what lee is now and his current game health and what he will be with these changes he isn't losing anything aside from some early game damage. He is still keeping all of his skills and how they function and even gaining some new pretty cool mechanics as well. Heck they could have retuned lee to only be an assassin or tank but instead they kept his versatility and that to me is pretty awesome.

Is lee sin going to feel the exact same after all is said and done... no, and no one likes change all that much. Is he still going to be a viable champ and play his role well? I think so and that in the end is what truly matters. If everything was simply kept the same and never changed, the game would feel stale unbalanced and not very fun to play.

Xanius73/8/2014, 8:43:29 PM11 votes

Seriously riot? Lee Sin is one of the most balanced players in the game that thrives off being skillful to get kills, you don't face all Lee Sins then see them automatically snowballing crazy, he has to first get a good start and a good player to use him, anyone can say he's OP but that's only because the player knows how to chase or juke and chain combos with him, if I play Lee Sin more normally than all other champions and if this is happening to the next patch, you might as well delete him because he's a ASSASSIN. emphasis on able to do high amounts of damage in a short session. If you take that off Lee Sin, you're taking that off every character that has fun and mains with Lee Sin.

Project Red3/8/2014, 6:26:21 PM7 votes

SAVE LEE

Toyo3/8/2014, 11:37:27 PM6 votes

Personally, I believe Lee simply has too much diversity in what he can do, in addition to his insane mobility. I think the changes to him will solidify his role as a jungler, while reducing the amount of crazy plays he can make with ward jumping and such. Also, the obligatory buffs to damage-based Lee in the late game with the SUDDENLY MASSIVE ATTACK SPEED that he gets from his passive.

Leave Lee Alone3/8/2014, 6:25:08 PM6 votes

.

Haó3/8/2014, 9:56:35 PM5 votes

please leave lee alone ): its bad enough hes blind ):

Legionance3/8/2014, 9:21:37 PM5 votes

I main Lee, AS boost doesn't do anything later in the game for Lee Sin's Kit. As much as I would love some buffs on my favorite champion, you shouldn't take away his bread and butter. Don't change Lee!!!!

TyradactylCandy3/9/2014, 5:33:20 AM4 votes

Why do people keep saying Lee is such a high skillcap champion?

He litteraly only has one skillshot in his entire kit, it's fast travelling, has long range and a pretty large hitbox.

What else is there that makes this champ "hard" to play, aside from the scarce attention u need to manage his passive by autoing between skill usages (something that anyone will start doing automatically given a little practice).

Just don't tell me that quick wardplacing-jumping is high skill because it isn't and anyone can pull it with some practice.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's super easy to play, neither do I feel Lee Sin is massively OP, but I do feel he is on the strong side atm.

Not saying that Riot is doing anything wrong, cause I do feel they have the right intentions. But wouldn't it be better to just leave it at:

Making hiss E do physical dmg, (so he's easier to itemize against).

Slightly increase cooldown on his W.

Slightly nerf his ult (Since it does pretty massive single target damage, has great scaling and brings loads of utility free of cost - while remove the root on impact so that squishies actually have a chance to counterplay it).

My 2 cents.

Kageshi3/8/2014, 6:35:05 PM3 votes

Absolutely hate the changes and agree with everything said.

I genuinely think that riot should re-think about who they employ as champion designers (or rather, the people that are responsible for "champion balance".

This changes are ridiculous. Lee sin SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED. I'm positive that many people will decide to quit league as a result of something like this.

Here's my take on the changes: Reddit Comment

Shinjusuke3/9/2014, 12:27:31 PM3 votes

I'm loving that there's like a billion of these threads, all from Lee Sin players who can't accept that finally, for the first time since released, he's getting actually nerfed.

He's literally been, for as long as he's existed, one of the strongest champs in the game, one of the most frequent professional picks, and one of the easiest champions to play (seriously, if you think a champion who LITERALLY never has to fight a fight he doesn't want to is hard, I'm sorry).

God forbid they take a champion who's been a god-tier jungler literally since release and tone down his free stomp-fest in the early levels in exchange for scaling his lategame better. The only people who actually believe that he's perfectly fine as he is now are the people who play the champion religiously cuz their desperate to protect their free wins. Everyone else who knows anything about the game at all? Yeah, you look nuts to us.

A champion who has insane damage early on, fast clears, ridiculous sustain, powerful dueling potential, hard cc, and soft cc (which is pretty heavy), 2 gap closers that can be used far too frequently, and 7 skills including an AOE nuke knockup? You guys seriously can't see the issue here?

You poor, poor "mains", how will you ever stomp people now? D:

Now, go downvote my post into oblivion. Vent your rage and accept that this needed to happen one day, and then either learn the champ when he takes an iota of skill or move onto some other OP tank dps assassin cc duelist jungling top mid. I'm sure the brawler class has plenty more for you :D

Hi Im Dude3/8/2014, 10:57:49 PM3 votes

Show my support for support Lee Sin? Thank you, no.

Earl Eulrich3/9/2014, 2:15:10 PM3 votes

Kinda sad all the red answers to the Lee-retune are to find in reddit. Y even bother make a own community forum if your own employees don´t attend to it?

Noobs People3/8/2014, 6:33:25 PM3 votes

Can I get a amen. Cause this isn't a nerf. Like one of the times Riot is going to take a look at Lee Sin and they don't even nerf him. They stick him in a blender and just destroy him. At this rate if your gonna go through with this retarded stuff delete him form the game. Im looking at Surrender@20's post about his new ult dmg... 50 DMG at level 1 do you know how sad that is... At level 3 only 250 DMG, this pisses me off. That's barely more dmg than a level 1 ult in the live patch. Im not even one of those people that tell Riot there being retarded and yet look at what there doing.. IDK who came p with those Base DMG's but they should get fired.... Those cost now are dumb your gonna take away all his DMG AND heres the big one, your skills that don't do anything are gonna cost 100 energy., that's half of his energy he already struggles with that bull... Those Attk speed buffs aren't gonna do anything for a Tank Lee Sin... I don't even want to here Riot say these changes are going through.. Those fucking ass holes need to stick to nerfing Irelia I don't even want to hear a joke about this.

Never the less here lies the body of Lee Sin

                       RIP Lee Sin 2011-14 ![LeeSin](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/LeeSin.png)
Cinquefoil3/8/2014, 6:26:40 PM2 votes

After seeing all the changes it looks as if Riot is trying to make him tanky instead of a fighter/assassin. I dislike this and I hate the fact that ward jumping takes 100 energy...

I don't even understand why they're nerfing Lee Sin because he's basically the same as Draven but Vice-Versa

  • Draven is weak early game
  • Draven is strong late game
  • Lee Sin is strong early game
  • Lee Sin falls off late game
Yuumi the Zoomie3/9/2014, 1:37:14 AM2 votes

Riot only nerf a champ when they need to be nerfed. Lee Sin is balanced and doesn't need a nerf. What your a doing is nerfing his early game when his early game is where he is strong. He drops off late game and that is fair. He is strong early and weak late. Keep him and the community happy by not nerfing him

Sincerely,

OmletteGamer and the Community

Montel Jr3/8/2014, 9:02:30 PM2 votes

In the end ALL champions are being called "OP" ... But I'm highly against Lee Sin changes because, in Bronze and Silver nobody really knows how to play him, even not the main lee sin players. And about half of all League players are B and S...

BIG TITO 233/9/2014, 5:53:55 AM2 votes

IF Lee is so strong that we have decided he has to be changed then why don't we start by looking at champions stronger than him first to see if he really is that bad compared to them. I mean I would much rather take on a Lee Sin any day compared to a Katarina. There is so much more to fix before we focus mainly on him.

Cirath3/8/2014, 9:10:52 PM2 votes

Please Riot, Lee SON is pretty much perfect/BALANCED(<what u want) There is no need, nothing 2 change. Just leave this one be, PLEASE! As some1 who supports this game with buying RP, I beg you, just leave it be.

Ãverage3/8/2014, 8:46:22 PM2 votes

I wish if riot would focus on the more unfair champs instead of messing around with the Good champs... Like Yorick Tryndamere Teemo Mordekaiser MasterYi Kassadin like those champions right there need somthing chaged about them when i see one of those champs on the other team it usually makes me rage because i dont play stupid champs i like to have fun not be gay lol But yeah I hate the changes to lee he was a fun champ to play with and against R.I.P Lee hes gonna be those champs that nobody plays anymore because they screwed him over Gg Riot you have proven your stupid game is trash once again!<3

Water of Eden3/8/2014, 11:18:54 PM2 votes

LEAVE MY LEE SIN ALONE :(

i cant PAUSE EET3/10/2014, 8:59:03 AM1 votes

Don't do it riot!!!

cantcmenoobz3/8/2014, 8:58:41 PM1 votes

Lee is slow early. As a new player, learning him is very difficult. I started playing him one game, and skill shots are ally he can do. Being quick with your fingers is the only way to play him and you have to practice him exclusively to even be remotely good at playing Lee. I do not like the changes, because then you will have no chance of jungling and remaining in the jungle just after your first buff. All the changes lately have destroyed any creativity in the game. Trying champs in different lanes is what the game, in my opinion, is all about. I love League, and in destroying people's imagination on new combos, teams and champ builds, have destroyed things. This hard nerf to Lee Sin is just another factor in the game that will continue from Riot to destroy early game, and turn all games to 45 min-1 hour+ games which not many people can do. I love to play 2-4 matches at a time, and I can't do that too much if everything revolves around a late game, after 45 minutes. I really hope Riot will be considerate and listen to the community on these matters, and I hope Lee Sin's nerf will not go through, or won't be as harsh then if it is.LeeSin

NàCl3/8/2014, 9:21:05 PM1 votes

I currently am an unranked, MAYBE silver level league player, and Lee is one of my favorite champions. I'm not very good with him, but I have seen what good Lee players can do with him, and I aspire to be that good with him(I'm a jungler main). I don't know how higher elos go with some of the champs that get nerfed, but honestly, it seem that whenever a champ at low elos dominates and people are able to dominate games with them, they get nerfed. Lee is a rare ban for me too see because it's rare that I see an even mildly competent one, but when I do, it's a sight to see. But, when a Nasus or Kassadin gets in and carries a game, I just get upset because, unless I was top against that Nasus, there was nothing I could have done about it. I feel that riot needs to leave the higher skill cap champions alone and focus on the easy to play champions, and punish people who play champions that require little or no mechanics. Among many of the people I know who play this game, all of them say that Lee is either the highest or one of the highest skill cap champs in the game. When you take that into consideration, it makes sense that diamond and plat players can carry games with him because his kit is so versatile and he can do so much with it. Seeing Lee nerfed will lower hope for any kind of real balance in this game from riot for a looooong time.

ModCaptainMårvelous3/8/2014, 10:08:45 PM1 votes

"Lee, do you think we should hang out with this guy?"

LeeSin "HE COO'!"

UndeadShadowfang3/8/2014, 10:31:57 PM1 votes

We should totally LeeSin to this guy :D lol no? ok summoner 3

lightfantastic3/8/2014, 11:05:44 PM1 votes

I don't feel Lee Sin's early game strengths are a guarantee of early game domination and even if the case does occur, it is possible to recover with intelligent counter play.

I agree with the OP's quoted text. Lee Sin is probably one of the only champions in the game I feel is truly in a good state. Yes, his kit is good but I never feel it is Lee Sin himself that is going to cause me the issue, it is the player behind it. The test then is if I, understanding Lee Sin's kit, have the foresight and skill myself to outplay what a potentially good Lee Sin can bring to the table. If I can, great. If not, then it isn't Lee Sin's fault, the player was just better and I probably did mistakes myself.

Briareus3/9/2014, 12:10:56 AM1 votes

The change that I dislike the most about all this is the change to safeguard. Mid laners better get use to Lee Sin taking every blue buff because his energy ratios are looking a lot like Shen's dash and we know how much play Shen gets...

buletpen13rawr3/9/2014, 1:49:36 AM1 votes

i like cookies

Piglettank3/9/2014, 5:25:19 PM1 votes

I dunno, i feel like the energy cost on his w is just going to get annoying for people, and they are making people to build him more of a tank than an assasin with these changes. Which will suck for my part since i can no longer go lee full ad and actually do something.

But, like people say, he hasn't had a real change, and this is a cool thing to do, i just think it's a bit too much...

Murshra3/10/2014, 6:21:42 AM1 votes

  • @Reds With the thoughts of Lee getting some work done. I totally agree that he becomes Early threat nearly meaning less in the late. I feel that the Lee should be pseudo snowbally. Where as he Jungle speed reminds well, i.e. mean good general stats, but as the game progress those stats don't carry him( IE raw damage,flat numbers, from abilities or high values to build off of).

  • Make his skills reflect the build. Q is his Offensive (AD skill), W scales somehow from Defensive values, E is a Utility scaling from non-direct sources (AS,AP, something like that). In short I liked the generic "putty" that Lee felt like when he was released instead of a shtick that he has become lately referring to build not position.

  • I have to say I hate that I agree with the comment where the game is feeling "'homogenized'". Champions don't feel unique or skillful enough though testing has been better where Champions don't feel OP/UP till patch day. There are items that aren't used so they take up space in the shop making it crowded. There was a time where I enjoy learning and becoming good at a few champions. Now its better to obtain a better skill of general game mechanics than to have in-depth knowledge of champions.

theponytheory3/9/2014, 1:40:01 AM

i like lee sin