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Skarner Rework feedback!

Píllow·2/18/2014, 9:54:00 AM·6 votes·1,225 views

Since the actual criticism isn't acknowledged in the official thread made for it... here goes.

Skarner

So, yeah. Skarner rework. It's pretty bad, and not going anywhere at all. We know Scruffy just wants to help and make him viable and all that jazz, but we're all getting frustrated at his inability to listen to or understand our criticism. It's a miracle he even acknowledged the idea of Skarner's E slow marking an enemy and the slow being extended when the mark is detonated/activated via basic attack or Q. But even then, the community came to this solution/suggestion because, to us, it feels like Scruffy avoids actually engaging in a conversation with the people criticizing his rework.

I've enjoyed discussing reworks with Xelnath and Xypherous in the past, mainly because they were really active with their responses whenever they could be, and took everyone's opinions into account while being very constructive with their own thoughts. Scruffy feels like he picks the few positive comments out of the many negative ones and goes "Man this is some good feedback, Imma tune some small numbers". The community has desperately kind of "fallen down to his terms" and plays by his game now, trying to find a middle ground with him, even though said middle ground barely pleases anyone.

Now that that's out of the way... I have a few ideas for Skarner, myself.

First, I'll go to my ideas for his E. Basically, I've been thinking of a burrowing ability that has been suggested by a few in the thread. Initial idea is this:

"Burrow (E): Skarner burrows underground, becoming invisible to normal sight and moving underground for X seconds. Skarner can reactivate the ability to jump out back to the surface, slowing/slightly knocking back enemies caught in a small radius around Skarner."

Of course this is a completely raw idea and bound to change, but something like this would actually give Skarner something really cool besides his ultimate to go with. If being completely invisible is too much, you could add a small effect on top of him where the ground above him kind of "crackles" so observant players would notice him coming. He would be invisible to sight wards/stealth wards, but could be seen on the minimap with pink wards, and possibly highlight the outlines of his model when he's in true vision while burrowed.

The effect of Skarner digging himself up from underneath someone is also up for debate. A slight knockback could be neat, knocking the player away from Skarner's position, but if you feel like that's too much combined with his ult, it could be a strong or a long-duration slow, too. I personally feel like his E is really boring, and no amount of CC or numerical changes are gonna change that. Of course I might be alone on this, but I always felt like his E was the least fun ability to use: just felt like a boring, linear skillshot with nothing interesting to it.

If the burrow ability was implemented, however, I believe his W would need changes. So how about this: It would give Skarner a shield, and bonus armor/MR? I'm open for ideas.

His Q, at the moment, feels the most redundant, IMO. The attack speed is barely noticeable at early levels (and still kinda stale lategame), and it's unsatisfying to use. It honestly feels like I'm not doing anything when I'm mashing Q and fighting someone. It's not satisfying to use without the slow, I'm afraid. I honestly feel like Skarner isn't Skarner without his permaslow, which really saddens me because it strongly seems like it's not coming back (Still a little irked how there's many ranged and more reliable permaslows in the game, but somehow only Skarner's easily outplayed permaslow is considered 'toxic'). Please, you can even nerf the slow on early levels if that's what needs to be done to bring it back.

I also really, really don't mean to offend Scruffy, but his behavior towards community feedback so far has been frustrating at best, with only slight actual progress. Other Rioters in the champion and rework departments are more than welcome to post their thoughts on Skarner. I really want to find Skarner fun to play again, as he was my first jungler, and the first expensive champ I bought with IP and fell in love with.

15 Comments

Zaphas2/18/2014, 10:44:13 AM4 votes

This is reposted from the GD thread that I made on my thoughts of what Skarner needs, and really, I think it's just an extra mechanic added to the E.

This is incredibly simple, and really awesome. Ok, so Skarner lands his E. As the kit is right now, 2.5 seconds later, the enemy champion is free to frolic away, pretending that Skarner never existed in the first place, and the giant scorpion trying in vain to catch up to them in League of Gap Openers cries tears of crystal.

Here's how you make it unsuck. Skarner lands the E. Target gains a slow and a debuff called 'Crystallization'. When and if Skarner catches up to the target and lands a Q, the slow is lengthened, giving Skarner extra precious time to complete his noble work. Second Q lands, the slow is not only lengthened, but strengthened, as Skarner's magic claws begin to encase the target in crystal. And if Skarner lands a third Q? Well, now you ****ed up, son. 'Crystallization' is now 'Crystallized', and the enemy champion is doing the exact opposite of frolicking, because Skarner just rooted them for a second or two, and his max AS from Q stacking is allowing Skarner to actually bring his damage to bear on a target, which only happens on the Live servers right now to enemies that are absolutely braindead.

This change is good for these reasons:

  1. It gives Skarner a role that he lacks when his ult is down (a fast moving, non-sustain crowd controlling monster), and a purpose to actually work towards, instead of mashing 3 different abilities that have utterly no synergy.

  2. It plays into the fantasy of playing a gigantic crystal scorpion, because you actually are working at turning your target into living crystal so you can sit there and beat the piss out of them.

  3. It gives his kit real synergy. E starts off the action, W gets Skarner to where he can capitalize on landing the E, and Q/Q/Q turns your target into a crystallized target, where Skarner can actually use the increased AS buff you gave him on the Q during the rework.

This change also allows the enemy to have counterplay, because the entire 'Crystallization' process would have opportunities to peel, disengage, or otherwise attempt to ruin Skarner's day, without feeling like you were instantly Crystallized, and didn't have a chance. That is what Skarner's ult is for. He skips all the red tape and grabs you up, and you're done. It creates an actual thematic progression to his kit, from slow to root to full on crystalline suppression with his ult.

I know that the root concept would make him more powerful (honestly right now he needs it anyway), but I think that most Skarner players would take a slight reduction in numbers if it meant having a kit that actually made thematic sense for a pissed off scorpion, rather than a numerically powerful jumblefuck of abilties.

Blorgorize2/18/2014, 11:33:16 AM1 votes

Personally, I have little to no problems (Except the slow fading when Crystalline Exoskeleton's shield pops) with the mechanics of Skarner's current kit, the numbers are just incredibly undertuned, which is covered in another of my posts on these forums.

That said, I brought up a Skarner rework months ago that turned him in an armor shredding AD variant that actually resembles how a Scorpion fights.

Energize remained the same as it is now.

Crystal Slash was renamed to Crystal Smash and empowered Skarner's next basic attack to deal additional physical damage and reduced the target's armor by X% for X seconds.

Crystalline Exoskeleton granted Skarner pseudo stealth (translucent while moving or a dust trail) instead of a shield while retaining the bonus movement speed for X seconds and had synergy with the rest of his kit. Such as:

  • Crystal Smash now causes Skarner next basic attack to also allow him to lunge X units towards the target, dealing physical damage as well as reduces the armor of all targets caught in the path for X seconds.

  • Crushing Grasp's cast range gains X units.

  • Corrupting Venom's active cast range gains X units.

Fracture was reworked into Crushing Grasp, Skarner grabbed the target and rooted them to one of his claws, dealing X physical damage every second over X seconds. When Skarner activates Crystal Smash it instantly deals X physical damage as well as reducing the armor of the rooted enemy.

Impale was reworked to Corrupting Venom, which was both a passive that dealt X physical damage every third basic attack and an active that stung the target, reducing their movement speed and attack speed by X% every second over X seconds while applying Corrupting Venom's passive every second for X seconds.

It was shot down by an angry GD that wanted their Skarner back and I can't really disagree with them for identity's sake, so I just put this kit on an original champion of mine (Brackern Spider / Dragonfly) since I feel it's still a great, if not amazing, ability kit.

Once again, I have no problems with Skarner's current kit, even if it doesn't really reflect a Scorpion, his numbers are just all over the place and are relatively easy to fix.

Sire Hippington2/18/2014, 6:54:53 PM1 votes

I realy didn't like that scarner rework as i first saw it in the PBE patchnotes, and nothing chnaged since then... I don't see why a rework was needed, and even if one was needed, this is the wrong way to go imo. Anyway, a good thread about the Scarnerrework: http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1598584

P.S. I realy don't like that i can't post as a EUW in the main Scarner post while there is no similare riot-thread in EU, as if EU has no opinion regarding that rework

Peacemaker96692/19/2014, 2:18:33 AM1 votes

Honestly, as a player who has played Skarner ever since he came out. I enjoy the Skarner rework. If you think about it, permaslow is never fun to play against and having the attack speed buff on q instead of his shield gives him really good dueling potential now since he can still put out a lot of auto attack damage even when he loses his shield. Plus, the slow is 50% for 2.5 secs maxed level, which I think having the slow on his e gives a lot of opportunity for counterplay for Skarner's slow. The issue I think mainly is the windup on his w is really weak and the fact that jungle Skarner has to get an extra ability which nerfs his damage and the slow is pretty weak at level 1, which is a level that Skarner normally keeps his e for most of the game. Plus the fact that his e has a noticeably long cast time before he can do anything does give the opponent time to escape even when hit. So even if he hits his e, it's not really rewarded well due to the slow being gone by the time he reaches his target. Honestly I think they need to make the e slow and mark targets, so whoever he auto attacks, it refreshes the slow buff. Sorta like Sejuani's old passive but only if he hits his e.

Atyres2/25/2014, 4:59:30 PM1 votes

I personally think that Skarner needs to just be reverted and retuned. Losing his heal and keeping his mana issues is just bothersome and not conducive to the jungle. I know the perma-slow is "antifun" but why do we still have frozen mallet then? Or Udyr for that matter who can chain stun an entire team. I feel like removing his better slow and his heal have done nothing but gimp him, like the promise of not nerfing him was just one huge lie in order to gut him of his idenitity and role. I personally am not a fan of this new Skarner and to be honest just kinda wish I could refund his skins. This isn't the champion I bought and is a terrible reiteration of him.

Timjin3/18/2014, 6:00:53 AM1 votes

Perhaps we could have a less angry discussion about the future of our crystal scorpion here?

@Scruffy, you had a few weeks to watch Skarner's changes play out. Do you have a direction planned for him or do you feel you need to see more data still?

Could we test some of the changes you thought about implementing in the PBE setting?