Increasing jungle interactivity- some ideas

RiotRiot Bazaam·4/24/2014, 4:23:40 PM·6 votes·1,222 views

First off, the goals (from the patch forecast)

We continue to see Junglers taking over games. In particular, damage focused junglers frequently outlevel, outfarm, and outdamage their laning teammates without the level of risk that their counterparts are forced to endure. We are looking into to altering the total gold/experience output that the jungle can provide. Additionally, we mentioned that Spirit Stone might be weighted a little too heavily in favor of DPS-focused junglers (especially health vamp), so we're taking that into consideration with our changes.

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/POLbQ0Nl-47-patch-forecast

So, the idea here is that you're allowing a strong damage-carry a free pass into the mid-late game with no early risk. Fair enough. But the problem is... if you nerf the gold/exp in the jungle again, we're back to where we started. Jungle carries disappear and it's land of the utility tanks. So let's get a little more creative. Let's define our goals...

  1. More risk in the jungle

  2. Encourage junglers to interact with the team

  3. Modify feral flame so it doesn't define the jungler pool or promote selfish farming for the first 25 mins

  4. Preserve the place of carry junglers in the game, without shoving out all other options

So, how do we do this?

General jungle changes

  • Increase gold and exp for jungle camps (wait for it)... in the enemy jungle. AKA if I take my wraiths, I get the normal (or a little less) gold/exp than current values. BUT, if I take the enemy side wraiths, I get a significantly increased amount of gold/EXP. Tie this into the jungler items, and you've got a reason for the junglers to interact with each other and the team to work with them to collapse on invading junglers.
  • Improve blue trinket. Ya, everyone's saying this, but listen. If it is made into a viable item for junglers to use to spy on each other, plan camp steals, etc... you improve jungle interactivity
  • Increase the gold/exp from dragon, and decrease its spawn time. But bazaam, why? Because if you want junglers interacting more, make a major objective even more important, to the point where it cannot be ignored. Junglers must plan around it, gank lanes, and set up, and more often.
  • Add an extra effect for stacking two of the same buff. Something minor... increase the slow of red, the CDR of blue, if someone has 2 of the same buff simultaneously. More reason to counterjungle.

item 3160 Feral Flare changes

  • Don't increase the needed stacks for transformation. Either it stops being a viable item or it promotes even longer selfish jungling.
  • Allow kills/assists to contribute stacks to the transformation of item 3154 Wriggles Lantern into item 3160 Feral Flare. Fairly straightforward... junglers can get their stacks without having to ignore the team for 20 mins
  • Here's the big one. Add an effect to feral flare that allows you to steal stacks from the enemy jungler. If one jungler with feral flare kills another jungler with feral flare, they steal some number of those stacks away. Imagine the counterplay... the teamwork to help kill the enemy jungler, the plays made to catch out the enemy jungler while they're stealing the more valuable enemy jungle camps (see above). The decision point about whether to make yourself a target by getting feral flare or stick with the safer, but lower-reward spirit items.

Anyways, just some of my thoughts about the future direction of the jungler. Jungling is the most fun I have in league of legends, and it's where I feel I have the biggest impact on games, both as carry junglers and utility tanks helping my team. Every decision you make as a jungler feels impactful, and playing well is extremely rewarding. It would be nice to preserve that spirit while working towards a more healthy system of risk and counterplay.

P.S. I know the spirit items need some work as well, I just haven't had a moment to sit and brainstorm ideas there. Gotta get to work now but if anyone likes these ideas I'll put something up about spirit items later.

EDIT: cleaned up formatting.

7 Comments

Lilinae4/24/2014, 5:22:38 PM2 votes

Interesting Ideas. I approve!

CARPEN0CT3M4/25/2014, 3:41:32 AM2 votes

If you know that there jungle is going to be stronger send two top and destroy the top or send two mid to destroy their mid Ahri You don't always need a jungler

Lavantant4/25/2014, 11:30:34 AM2 votes

me likey

Tobasco da Gama4/26/2014, 10:49:19 PM2 votes

I disagree with your last two Feral Flare suggestions.

First of all, the idea behind the Wriggle's/FF stacks is that farming the jungle gives less gold than farming a lane or securing kills in a gank. So, the stacks are meant to compensate for lowered gold income by giving an alternative, non-gold form of scaling. Allowing kills and assists to add stacks is basically giving double scaling to the jungler who's out there securing kills.

Second, removing stacks from the enemy is the wrong kind of counterplay for LoL. If you want to "steal" stacks, you do it by farming enemy camps so they don't get those stacks in the first place. That lever is already there. An explicit stack loss mechanic incentivises junglers to run away from fights, not run into them. You're not rewarding a jungler for making a play, you're penalising a jungler for sticking his neck out. It's also way more snowbally: the stronger jungler is going to stay stronger, because he makes his opponent weaker every time he scores a kill.

JediofChrist4/27/2014, 10:13:32 PM2 votes

I think this is a definite spring-board. I would definitely approve of Riot using aspects of this in the game. :) nice work.