Don't change Manamune until we figure out how to use ER, pls.

Kraken Skulls·Jul 18, 2014·8 votes·3,818 views

We are just starting to realize ER's place in the game on a wide variety of champions. A lot of the theorycraft going on right now is using a Tear for early game mana, followed by an ER for all around sustain, then building into Manamune/Muramana for good damage. The on-hit effect of Muramana synergizes with the LS on ER. The return mana on autos hits a medium point where mana consumed will balance with mana expended and a REAL and sustainable dps gain will be visible from Muramana's on-hit. Using this build with IGB, TForce, or FH makes a lot of sense.

This even sounds cool as a build, Manareaver. See?

PLEASE WAIT RIOT. Let's see how it works until the end of the season. You will be suprised at the variety of builds that come up on previously obscure champions. GP, Olaf, and Darius could all benefit from a build like this. It will help them pressure lane and push better. They need that so that they can roam. Push/Roam tactics is what lets you counterplay camping immobile champs top.

So please, wait at least a few months and let us see how awesome this combo can be. The experimental rework will make a build synergy like this disappear because true dmg doesn't proc LS. The way Manamune builds now is enough of a change.

9 Comments

RiotricklessabandonJul 19, 20143 votes

the experimental changes are just that—i'm just trying to gather data on what kind of actives might work (mostly cast paradigms, how mana costs work with them, etc). at some point muramana's active will be changed (or at least adjusted for balanced), but that time isn't in the immediate future from what we've been seeing.

TortferngatrJul 19, 20144 votes

Since you're here (although this might be a better question for the Statikk AMA, if you could answer it that would be great), I have a question about ER: Why doesn't it have Forbidden Idol in its build path?

It seems like the CDR and mana sustain components come out of nowhere on Essence Reaver.

VPXDEj85AYJul 19, 20143 votes

I agree here. Essence Reaver's mana sustain only comes at the very end of the build path, negating it's usefulness a lot because the window for mana issues normally persists in the early to mid game. Giving the few people who would want this item a way to opt into early mana regen instead of being stuck to choose between Life Steal and AD to get their CD and Mana Regen item would greatly benefit the health of this item.

Also (and this is more of a personal issue than an actual one) it bothers me that both BT and ER have the same exact item path. I think this breaks some sort of unspoken rule for item paths and if it stays this way would set a precedent that shouldn't be broken quite so nonchalantly.

OrinneJul 19, 20143 votes

Rather than BF Sword, wouldn't designing a new mid-tier Essence Reaver along the item path be a quick fix to this?

Something like:

Spirit Scythe

item 3114 + item 1036 + + 530 gold = 1950 gold

40 AD
10% CDR

UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your basic attacks restore mana equal to between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt, based on your missing mana.

This would change Essence Reaver to

Spirit Scythe (1950g) + Vampiric Scepter (800g) + 650g

FunsterJul 19, 20142 votes

I really like this idea. Plus, it makes more sense just in terms of the items leading up to Reaver. Having the build path identical to Bloodthirster is kinda strange to me.

exec3Jul 19, 20143 votes

I hope when the time comes you opt for adjusting for balance rather than changing the active. There are some good ideas for what you were experimenting with but those ideas would be best served in a new item imo.

Kraken SkullsJul 21, 20141 votes

Good to know. Thank you for replying. I like that the on-hit can benefit from lifesteal. Without meaningful AD-only-spellvamp, lifesteal is an important tool on AD mages. Having Muramana's on-hit work with it let's you itemize around mana in interesting ways.

Furthermore, breaking down the build path of ER into more sensible pieces would make a build like this even more interesting. I would like to be able to decide if ER or Manamune would be more beneficial to complete early depending on a situation as much as just which one is stronger for dps(a situation where stacking faster is better because I don't need the added sustain as much, for example).

The on-hit as true dmg is interesting too though(On-hit Yi anyone?). Whatever happens, I'm sure the end result will be fun. I know it's hard to have a lot of build variance in a game like this, but I really enjoy builds and theory crafting as much as actually playing the game.

If you have time for another quickie, is there any talk of reworking Atma? A few people have suggested a CDR path instead of a crit path in the recipe. I think that would open it up to a lot more champions. Currently it's only really useful on Olaf(w/TriF) or Garren(w/YGB or SS). This change would leave it as viable on those two champs while opening up better bruiser builds for a lot of others. If the AD passive remains the same, it's possible that this wouldn't bring back the metagolem. I could see this as problematic with SotAG though.

Flying BuntcakeJul 19, 20141 votes

Wow people like ashe could really benefit from this build. Slow and extra damage 24/7

matrii thanaJul 19, 20141 votes

what balance problems are there currently? is it above or below expected value? there has been little to no commentary on it in both in the items section nor general discussion except to defend its continued existence. if it's not an immediate future, is there any chance that changes will be marginalized permanently?