Banshee's Veil; Why it promotes defensive play and how to fix it

Subtle Roy·7/29/2014, 12:22:39 PM·7 votes·2,612 views

Hey guys! I'm Just Roy, a Diamond 5 (Time Warner Cable is a cruel mistress, RIP my elo.) support main. I've been pondering why the late game can feel so frustrating, and one of the main reasons I've found is Banshee's Veil.

If you look at the most game changing items at the moment; Banshee's is by far the most impactful. It's extremely common in competitive play for all 10 players to have Banshee's Veil's come late game.

In a meta where a rogue skillshot or CC hitting your carry can immediately end the game, Banshee's is king. It gives poke comps a safety net from getting engaged on, and hard engage comps a way to stop their carries from getting poked down.

If the item is so good, why rework it? I'm glad you asked! Because the spell shield block provided is so good, many games reach a point where neither team wants to make an aggressive move, because they are safer being engaged on with their banshee's all up than making an aggressive move. Also, every time one team attempts an aggressive move, they are forced back for 25 seconds while they wait for their Banshee's Veil's to come back up. Intended or not, every time Banshee's Veil returns to the meta, competitive game time across all regions increases.

What do you propose? Essentially, I think that spell shields have an extremely important role in league of legends. They create a much needed defense against poke champions and long range CC. But the current iteration of it is too steeped in promoting defensive play.

What if, instead of the current passive, Banshee's worked as a mini Nocturne Shroud of Darkness? It could be an active, that when used blocked the next spell for 1.5 seconds.

What would that accomplish? First of all, it would require the player to mindfully block a skillshot or ability, instead of Banshee's doing all the work for them. It would also still allow CC/Skillshot/Poke champions to hit their abilities on unsuspecting Banshee's users.

But wouldn't this end up in the same scenario as the old Banshee's Veil where everyone wait's until the usable active is up? Here is where we get to the meat of my idea! What if, Banshee's Veil's active had an overall cool down (let's say, 2 minutes). Twice every ten seconds, an enemy spell cast could reduce the cool down of Banshee's Cry by 10 seconds. This is barring a 25-40 second minimal internal cool down.

That sounds incredibly convoluted for something that doesn't necessarily need fixing, how does this help the game again? Making a system that rewards being near the enemy team creates a late game scenario that encourages riskier play. Also, if a backline poke champion, say Ziggs, wants to buy a Banshee's, it would be harder for him to charge it than say, Shyvana. However, Ziggs has the added safety of picking and choosing what CC to use the active on, unlike the old Banshee's.

My proposed change for Banshee's Veil:

Banshee's Veil

+450 health

+55 magic resistance

Unique Active -Banshee's Cry-: Grants a spell shield for the next 1.5 seconds that blocks the next enemy ability. This active is on a 2 minute cool down.

Unique Passive: Nearby enemy spell casts reduce Banshee's Cry's cool down by 10 seconds. (Occurs up to 2 times every 10 seconds. Banshee's Cry has a minimum cool down of 40 seconds.)

Unique Passive: Grants 45 health regen for up to 10 seconds after taking damage from an enemy champion or when the spell shield is consumed.

TL;DR: Basically, my idea is to make Banshee's Veil reward offensive play instead of defensive play. The active will come up MORE frequently by playing aggressive, and unlike the old Banshee's that punished you for getting in combat by resetting the shield cool down, this new Banshee's does the exact opposite. It will create larger windows where a team's back line is vulnerable in exchange for giving the back line greater control over what spell they want to block. Overall, it is a complete shift in power that I think would be very healthy for competitive league.

11 Comments

Phoenix Kotori 7/29/2014, 2:39:39 PM6 votes

Personally I don't like this idea at all.

Mostly because it has to make the item much more broken for skilled players and generally feel worse for everyone else (especially since ping different would really matter and MR itemization is **awful **enough as it is, which is the real reason you see so many BVs), and it removes the counter play of being able to poke off the shield to begin with since it could always be saved til when you wanted.

Think about in pro play they would almost use (or try to use) it block enemy ultimate abilities thus punishing the aggressor even more potentially now than it does currently, being able to null an enemy ult on demand is an insane amount of power.

Besides I feel like this change is making it too similar item 3139 or item 3157 territory.

Hyrum Graff7/29/2014, 1:17:53 PM3 votes

I like it! Especially, how the spectre's cowl passive is included. I wonder, though, if the active is necessary at all. What if you just applied this cooldown mechanic to the existing banshees?

As to the new mechanic, the only change I'd like to see is from this:

Unique Passive: When an enemy ability is used within range, 10 seconds is taken off Banshee's Cry. This can occur a maximum of 8 times between casts (with a minimum cool down of 40 seconds.)

To this:

Unique Passive: Nearby enemy spellcasts reduce Banshee's Cry's cooldown by 10 seconds. (Occurs up to 2 times every 10 seconds)

  1. Phrasing is in line with how riot says it elsewhere (karma's passive, tear).
  2. With the previous iteration, I'm concerned about the case where teams go looking for an engage. They each pop many of their banshees, but don't get a catch onto priority targets. They DO cast more than 8 spells. Now all of their banshees are on 40 second cooldowns. They back off and wait out the 40 seconds, like they do currently, just on a slightly longer timer. With this version, it forces people to expose themselves multiple times while their banshees is off cooldown.
Hotdogs7/29/2014, 5:39:06 PM3 votes

I think the problem is more that its the best MR item in almost every situation. The best general MR item should not be the one with the spellshield, the spellshield should be situational/niche.

I dont like giving a on demand shield active on an item. It greatly increases the skillcap in a non fun way and reduces counterplay if people master using it.

I think increasing the shield refresh time as they are doing aswell as making the item significantly worse in most situations compared to other MR items is the way to go.

I don't think spellshields counter poke, its more like poke counters spellshields I don't think spellshields should counter long range cc, I think tenacity and tanks should I think the problem is knockup creep making tenacity generally bad and tankyness dropping off too hard late game

Sire Hippington7/29/2014, 5:30:06 PM1 votes

While i agree that BV is problematic and encourages save play, ur proposed change would not help, atleast in higher elos, as it would actually help pokecomps vs engage comps, as u couldn'T poke of the shield befor the engage, they could always wait for some cc to shield to prevent an initiation, while it'S hard for an engagecomp to block an specific skill if while they jump into the fray.

Budupops7/29/2014, 8:44:48 PM1 votes

lol high elo problems

#bronze