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S4 and the current state of Supports

Luner Hunter·2/16/2014, 5:09:39 PM·13 votes·884 views

So it's been a few months since the S4 update in which there was a certain Rioter named Morello who said (and I will quote)

[QUOTE=Morello;43178896]They do deal some. :P Not a ton because they shield, heal, buff and speed up allies. Sometimes they have tank-level CC.

I need to leave for now. Bottom line on this stuff;

  1. [B]Supports[/B] can do some damage; [B]supports[/B] are not primary damage-dealers.

  2. If the tuning is off and AP mids blow away support characters, we'll adjust aggressively throughout preseason.

  3. Having not had gold in 3 years is not a counter-argument for why this class can not have damage nerfs when it should be focused on utility, which is how we will likely continue to scale them (CD's, duration, intensity, impact).[/QUOTE]

However there has been a profound lack of buffs to any supports or nerfs to AP midlaners gone botlane.

Patch 3.15

Change to Fiddlesticks

Q - Terrify

Duration reduced at later ranks to 1.25/1.50/1.75/2.00/2.25 seconds (from 1.00/1.50/2.00/2.50/3.00 seconds)
Mana cost reduced to 65 at all ranks (from 65/75/85/95/105)

R - Crowstorm

Mana cost reduced to 100 at all ranks (from 150/200/250)

Patch 4.1

Change to Annie

Passive - Pyromania

Stun duration now scales 1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds at levels 1/6/11 (from 1.75 seconds at all levels)

R - Summon Tibbers

Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 seconds (from 120 at all ranks)

These are not nerfts but slight tweaks to slightly overpowered abilities in which Fiddlesticks was even compensated by having his ult's mana cost be reduce to 100 MP at all ranks. I have tried to play Sona twice since PreSeason... she is still garbage and it is currently well into Season 4 without any buffs to the **REAL **supports or any nerfs to the AP MIDLANERS that keep going botlane. As the situation stands it's like this:

Sona: crap heals that cost too much mana for too little heal, too squishy, her Q+R+passive does a grand total of 0 dmg now, she is no threat all game (AP support) (yeah each AP Support is also listed a "mage" but riot has yet to change that specially after the S4 nerfs)

Taric: his stun does something? and he can heal? well... maybe if he still has mana after casting one OR the other (AP tank)

Soraka: so... her heals don't do jack... and they REALLY don't do jack unless the person your trying to heal is almost dead... awesome >.> lets not forget that shes squishy as hell, and she cant even shred enough magic resist to hurt any more (AP support)

Lulu: she has CC? pix does more than shoot sparkles? her R isn't her only useful ability? (AP support)

Jana: HA! what a joke! she doesn't do anything anymore (AP Support)

Nami: one of the only two supports that isn't busted ass broke (AP Support)

Leona: Tanky + CC she is the other support that is just fine as is (Melee Tank)

Now here comes the "supports" that have been running botlane:

Annie: need I say more? (AP mage)

Zyra: another obvious one (AP mage

Morgana: REALLY? shes got CC, shes got dmg, shes got a shield, and a stun (AP mage)

Nidale: Spears,Spears,Spears,Spears,Spears, and more spears! oh did I mention more spears, some traps, a heal, and tiger form executions?

(AP mage)

Blitz: Pulls, silences, CC, knock ups, tank (AP melee tank)

Thresh: hooks, shields, cc, dmg, and an ult that does both dmg and cc (AP melee tank)

Volibear: CC + Dmg + Tank (melee tank)

I have no reason to fear any of the **REAL **supports due to riot's nerfing all of their damages/heals into the ground. With the supports the way they are now I can ignore them due to their inability to deter me through damage, sustain, or CC. The CC isn't an issue for me due to the fact I am a support main in which its my job to take their CC, however, their damage is such a minor threat I can ignore them all game long aslong as I bring my ~20/~20 armor/MR rune page and tank masteries when I play Leona, Volibear, or Thresh. So since I can ignore the CC and the Dmg of the support the only other issue the support could cause me is their ability to heal themselves and their ADC which, again, is a minor threat due to the sheer **HATE **riot has for the champions that THEY CREATED with the ability to heal other champions. That is to say all heals from any support is hardly noticeable (except to a slightly greater extent soraka's R) in a fight with an ADC and a Support that knows what they are doing.

So the argument is this: Why would I take a Support with just CC when I can take an AP midlaner or a Tank which has CC **AND ** DMG botlane? (In which riot said this wouldn't become the case in which it has!) Now I am sitting here waiting for the promised "aggressive rebalancing"... 3.15 ... 4.1 ... 4.2 ... and counting

EDIT:4.3 patch NERFS to SUPPORT ITEMS

Riot baiting @Riot Morello

Original Thread called Bye Bye Supports started by Neurosurgeonwolf here

29 Comments

Knight Devout2/16/2014, 5:28:25 PM6 votes

If I'm not mistaken, a rioter talked about "tool overload" when referring to the Ap Mages that were played botlane. Essentially what makes them trumps support is their Crowd Control+Magic Damage Hybrid , and in some cases their utility might even trump the utility of a full fledged support. Basically they have too many things for free, where as a support is balanced without damage to make up for his/her cc, those ap mages have both.

I agree with you, supports still lack enough utility to make up for the damage gap when compared to a morgana/annie played botlane.

Fulminous Edge2/17/2014, 2:16:41 PM6 votes

I think it's also worth pointing out the raw power that Doran's shield offers supports in the bot lane, the extra 100 HP, 10 Hp5 and 8 damage block from AAs + Defense masteries almost nulifyes poke from the ranged AP supports you mentioned in you post. As Leona or Thresh I can take so much poke because not only do I have way more health but that extra 2 health per second in regeneration really adds up quickly.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the gold income item for poke champions like Sona, Spellthief's Edge, is not up to snuff with the like of the coin item path. At least iot is planning to begin testing changes for the gold items on the PBE.

So all I can really say is to wait, I think a nerfed Doran's Shield and a buffed Spellthief's Edge will go a long way to make a larger pool of supports more viable.

Lady Luck2/16/2014, 6:12:01 PM5 votes

I miss Janna :(

I've not felt as amazing playing a champion as I did playing Janna last season. Even in ARAM she feels useless...

TehomCD2/17/2014, 2:31:29 PM5 votes

The problem is more based on how the supports currently interact. All-in supports are dominant due to their durability and their sustain with doran's shield and defensive masteries, and just tend to win lane by default. The problem isn't so much kits or how more pure supports scale - look at Lulu, for example. She's currently a very strong mid pick in competitive play. So obviously, if that's true, both her kit and her scaling is strong. Why isn't she as viable a pick in bottom lane? Because she's not as strong against all-in supports in a 2v2 situation as her overall kit contributes to team success in teamfights later in the game. For example, you mentioned Zyra which simply isn't true anymore - she's not that strong because she's reliant on poke, like Sona, and just isn't that great against all-in supports who have overloaded sustain. Morgana, by contrast, is very strong against all-ins due to countering with black shield, soil, binding, and ult, but vulnerable to poke which she doesn't have to care about much currently, since she can buy a doran's shield like everyone else.

Compounding that is the fact that it's almost absurdly easy to sustain now on AD carries compared to past seasons - poke supports have a pretty narrow window to try to work them down before they have enough lifesteal where they can completely ignore poke, and that's also the same period where all-in supports can threaten to kill them if they try to poke, and you have a situation where poke is too weak and distorts the bot lane as a result.

Logros2/17/2014, 10:34:08 PM3 votes

Techom CD nailed it on the head.

I think the one thing that would be nice to have an include is further scaling at the very least with CC. Why not make it so some actual hard CC can scale, so, say, Taric's stun could get up to a higher amount than 1.5 seconds.

Simple improvements like increasing the ratio to Soraka's ult and increasing the poke on Sona's Q and scaling, Nami's Ult, and re-introducing the wall headbutt interaction on Alistar would be a start so that rather than nerfing the all in supports, we get more choices based on who the ADC is so that we actuall can do cool lanes based on different combinations.

Jamener2/19/2014, 3:43:25 AM3 votes

There are some really strong points made in the comments here. I just want to add my two cents and say that every time I play Soraka I do not have fun. Hell, I don't even have fun playing Leona or Thresh because it's so easy to win with them. Soraka used to be fun for me because when you hit that heal button on an ally you would save them, and I mean really SAVE them. Right now, even with the massive armor buff, hard engaging magic damage dealing supports like Annie and Leona just shred through it and the heal is meaningless. A while back, when Riot first nerfed Soraka's heal (Kayle's heal as well) and added more armor to it they gave this reason: "Soraka and Kayle's heal should be used in clutch moments to save that person from near death. We feel that increasing the cooldown, lowering the heal amount, and increasing the armor and speed stats will accomplish this while also lowering their overwhelming sustain in lane." Well, I have been doing just that. I save Soraka's 20s CD heal for when my ADC gets jumped on so that I can give that oh-so-crucial armor buff to them, but they just melt anyway. And when I do decide to heal when there's no danger, my ADC yells at me when the enemy takes advantage of my high CDs and I don't have heal up to use it on them then. I can't peel. I can't do damage to discourage them from chasing. All I can do is run away feeling helpless, asking why I decided to troll myself by picking Soraka when a Thresh pick could've peeled, traded, and saved the ADC so much easier.

ratcharmer2/18/2014, 4:36:42 AM2 votes

Riot has said multiple times now that many traditional supports are under-tuned right now and need love, but nothing has come of it yet . . .

Traditional supports aren't "trash", but it's quite clear they are underpowered compared to many other classes.

The opening post exaggerates, but does have a point.

Arcsoona2/17/2014, 3:58:42 PM2 votes

Sona is OP u just don't know how to play her. No offence

Flowering Bones2/25/2014, 8:28:59 AM1 votes

If you think Volibear and Nidalee are more viable supports than Lulu right now, you're far gone.

Luner Hunter2/22/2014, 10:06:54 AM1 votes

well this post is to bump this threat and to ask why there has yet to be a single red reply >.>