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Valor has Quinn's full mana costs...Why?

Andrethyst·4/1/2014, 5:36:16 PM·6 votes·163 views

Title. I've been playing Quinn for quite a while now, and this has always perplexed me. With Elise and Nidalee, their shapeshifted forms don't require mana to cast spells, and Valor already requires 100 mana and a pretty big cooldown just to access him. Valor also has the negatives of having to go into melee to either cast them or ends up in melee after casting. Could I get some red input as to why this is the case?

Thinking through it before I did get that the 100 mana does give you a large attack speed buff and a large-small movement speed buff based on combat status at the cost of going melee, but having mana required to actually jump on someone (as the movement speed boost never feels like it's helping at all to chase when someone's hit you in the past 5 seconds) just gets more frustrating since if I want to either chase someone down or do a Valor/Skystrike burst combo I have to instead of thinking of whether I can become Valor, I have to remember my mana costs for the OTHER abilities and determine if I have the mana for that in the first place, when in the case of Nidalee, if you want to go to cougar form you just have to think "I need to get close" and you know you can cast your spells regardless of your mana. Obviously these can easily be argued as apples and oranges situations, and I'm only making these comparisons because of the shapeshifting mechanic.

All in all I just would love to hear an answer as to why Valor still has full mana costs. Why was this decision made in Quinn/Valor's design? Was having Valor be manaless considered? Why was it shot down if it was? I'd love to hear some red input to ease this confusion of mine.

7 Comments

Remlap12234/1/2014, 11:08:30 PM3 votes

I think Valor needs to be a perma-form, much like Nidalee and Elise have their respective Cougar and Spider forms. Give him true special abilities and take out skystrike. It doesn't do much as is anyways. Maybe if and when they rework Quinn.

AbiwonKenabi4/2/2014, 2:02:14 AM1 votes

Maybe a more apt comparison with shape-shifting: Shyvana is manaless, so never has to worry about casting her spells in dragon form (or any form for that matter). Her ult is more effective at getting her close and gives her tanky stats, in addition to her abilities doing extra things.

Valor is also an ult form, but Quinn uses mana. This is fine, but unlike Dragon form, it doesn't even act as a gapcloser--the gapcloser is extra. This is strange considering Shyv gets her gapcloser AND transformation in one skill--even if she was a mana champ, this is must more cost effective.

I agree that Valor can be fun, but there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get a good Valor ult off. Like you said, you have to have upwards of 200 mana in order to get close, and the speed boost is inconsistent. The attack speed is great, but the sticking power is often too weak to make it feel effective.

OTHER OPINIONS ABOUT QUINN ULT INC:

Since you're squishy, I expect Valor to play almost like an assassin, but he really isn't mobile enough to perfect that feeling. When Kha'Zix ults, it's like he's jumping all around, stealthing--you don't know where he is half the time. When LeBlanc goes in, it's in and out with huge damage. I hear you say "Quinn is sustained damage." But even more sustained melee damage dealers feel more mobile--trynd has his spin and a "don't die yet" button, Yi can Alpha Strike and be untargetable for a moment. What does Valor have? The mana would definitely help, but I feel like there's something there in a really fun kit that lacks survivability. Just my two cents.