4.7 Forecast (Game Systems)

Riotricklessabandon·4/30/2014, 10:43:35 PM·24 votes·7,471 views

I want to chat a bit about some changes I'm working on as part of the Game Systems team. These changes are being made specifically with competitive play in mind, so we wanted to talk about them separately instead of combining them with the 4.7 forecast posted by the Live Gameplay team. As clarification for the curious, the Game Systems team doesn't work exclusively on competitive changes—we just want to highlight the instances in which we do competitive work. If this dual-post format works out, we may continue doing this in the future. Getting onto the changes themselves, the three areas detailed below will be what I'm focusing on in the 4.7 patch.

1) Trinkets
We've lowered the 'game start' timer of trinkets down to 30 seconds.

When we first introduced trinkets in the 2014 season, we gave them a 'start of game' cooldown that prevented them from being used within the first 90 seconds of the game. Since we couldn't be certain of how trinkets would be used/swapped in competitive play coming from a world that had never seen trinkets, we selected 90 seconds as a conservative timing to guard against potential/unseen abuse cases. Since their introduction, we've concluded that the initial trinket cooldowns need to go one of three directions:

  • Push the trinket timing further to effectively remove them from competitive openings.
  • Pull the trinket timing back and fully embrace their use in competitive openings.
  • Be content with the 90-second timing and fairly predictable trinket use case in competitive openings.

In the 4.4 patch we pushed the initial trinket timing to 120 seconds under the assumption that a healthier variety of strategic openings could exist without trinkets as a factor. What we've learned since then is that the costs associated with many openings, such as traditional 2v2 or 2v1 lanes, is relatively too high in comparison to the common "3v1" or "4v0" openings we often see today (this is influenced by the need for early vision to safely setup a non-4v0 opening, the early power sacrifice to acquire that vision when purchasing wards over gold items or combat stats, and the disadvantage incurred in lane by opting into those setups). At this point we believe that pulling the trinket timing back and allowing teams to incorporate trinkets into their openings will reduce the cost discrepancy between openings in areas where they were a bit too harsh.


2) Towers
We've added Fortification to the bottom tower, lowered its duration to 7 minutes (from 8), and increased its damage reduction to 30 (from 20).

While we still feel that Summoner's Rift should have some asymmetry to it (specifically, differences between its top and bottom halves), we'd like to shift the focus of that asymmetry back into neutral objectives (such as Dragon) and subtle terrain differences (such as brush) and away from early-game fragility of the bottom tower, especially given the late-game importance of bottom lane's inhibitor as an objective.

The damage reduction is being increased as followup to the transition away from higher armor values on towers. Currently strategies that allocate 3-4 member of their team toward pushing down a tower within the first few minutes of the game (typically on the second or third minion wave) are effectively 'triple dipping' on advantages since they're more able to hard zone the enemy (resulting in 100% of potential minion damage being applied to the tower), expedite the tower's fall by applying significant amounts of champion damage to it, and increase the minimum allocation of champions needed to respond for their enemies (for team comps that don't meet specific requirements). While these advantages aren't intrinsically problematic (at least in isolation), we'd like to reduce the overall strength of this tactic to some degree given its costs relative to other tactics.


3) Dragon
We've increased the base Gold value of Dragon to 145g per player (from 125g). [Total value now 750g (from 650g).]

As mentioned in the context of the tower changes, we're planning to reinforce the Dragon's role as a contested resource in the earlier phases of the game by increasing its base Gold reward to be a little more attractive for the team. This will mean that Dragon will be worth more at all phases of the game. As with our other changes, we'll be keeping a close eye on this change, and will make adjustments in the future as necessary.

83 Comments

Limakoko8084/30/2014, 10:56:04 PM41 votes

Honestly i have to say THANK YOU.

No more 4v0s, late invades? Pro games actually have a laning phase!!!

I know this stuff primarily affects pro play but late invades were pretty obnoxious as hell even in soloqueue.

Although im not sure how i feel about the bot tower fortification change but i dont feel it will make the first 7 minutes of pro games boring as hell like the trinket changes did so thats a plus

KevinDelMarr4/30/2014, 11:21:12 PM8 votes

I just want to say I extremely dislike seeing 3-1, 4-0 early game tower pushes. As a spectator it's boring to watch pro players rush a turret and get it because 1 person can't defend against it. It's like if a professional athletic sport allowed each team to go against a defense with half their members for their first possession or a certain amount of time at the beginning of a match. Sure we see points scored but it takes away the potential excitement of an early play. There's no skill involved with these kinds of plays, it's free and imo dirty gains.

Go back and watch the Dignitas-Curse game of Spring Play-offs. Curse thought freezing the lane would be a good tactic with their 2v_. Well Dig just pushed like crazy and got a tower advantage. 2nd game Curse thought they could do the same tactic as Dig but go for an extra buff. Dig just pushed faster and gained another advantage. By the third game Curse had to do exactly as Dig and push hard. This strat allows teams to play around strong laning teams, to cut out a crucial step of normal games. It doesn't separate good lane players from the bad, the easiness of the tactic encourages stale early games and people who can free farm

Yes there should be variety, but not when it makes a major part of the game a snore fest

cvshcarti5/1/2014, 5:56:59 AM7 votes

There's going to be a laning phase in professional? Thank you Rito!

Hentitan5/1/2014, 2:35:10 AM5 votes

Any buff to blue Trinket?

Scooter McGavin4/30/2014, 11:32:52 PM4 votes

Has the idea of having all trinkets available at the start of a match but, with a penalty cooldown if its used before the 90 second mark?

Rather than have the trinket on cooldown, have a 1 time cooldown penalty by increasing the cooldown of the trinket.

e.g.

Scrying orb (120 sec CD) + (30 sec penalty CD).

Sweeping lens (120 sec CD) + (45 sec penalty CD).

Warding totem (120 Sec CD) + (60 sec penalty CD).

i gave scrying orb and the sweeper lower values since most players desire the use of the warding totem.

Perhaps having seperate values on trinkets penalty cooldowns. This not only allows for new strategies with several different trinkets in the early game, but will also add more counter play to very aggressive/defensive openings.

EDIT: Grammar.

Ozrak5/1/2014, 3:28:07 AM4 votes

Why not provide towers with scaling defenses based on the amount of enemy champions sieging it? That way it becomes a point of risk/reward decision for teams to get 4 or 5 champions sieging a tower because they will have to weigh in that decision given the diminishing returns in sieging the tower or spend resources elsewhere to take other objectives and farm.

Eviax4/30/2014, 11:21:19 PM4 votes

For once in a while I'd love to see a change that would make an impact onto the solo queue...

Borigrad5/1/2014, 4:04:37 AM3 votes

If you really want to fix early tower pushing and 1v2 lanes just revert the change you made in S1 where duo lanes get 65% exp a minion instead of 50% and so on. But you won't, so the problem will continue to exist no matter how you change the towers. Cause removing the top laner, which usually is a front liner is just to valuable in the pro scene when there is one less damage soak in the game.

Beats295/1/2014, 3:14:08 AM3 votes

Meanwhile, Montecristo said this exact thing on January xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmdnY1HnPvc at 23:18

Dem Wizard

Craton5/1/2014, 2:19:50 AM3 votes

How is this supposed to decrease the likelihood of the 4 man push or 3 man zone/dive push? Yes, you'll be less blind in your OWN jungle at the start, but your vision of enemy starting locations will not change much.

Given that bot lane is now stronger, teams have more reason to initiate a swap because they don't have an inherent disadvantage for doing so. Further, given that tower strength has not changed the ability for the jungler to grab buff(s) and 3-man has also not changed. In some cases this is a little more volatile of a strategy, but most commonly picked junglers (or at least sets of junglers + bot lanes) will have free leaps that will allow them easy in-and-out juggling of aggro.

The slight difference in dragon doesn't amount to much given how these situations already play out; so long as the swapping team doesn't get too greedy, they can easily rotate in time to stop a dragon attempt (it does a LOT of damage at 5-6 minutes and players do a comparatively small amount). It's not any easier for the non-swapping team to get dragon, so the small increase in value amounts to no effective change in balancing the swap vs non-swap.

If anything, I expect these changes to result in MORE swaps.

Zetaphrem4/30/2014, 11:02:37 PM2 votes

Guess the impact of the 4-1-4 finally made it through.

Hopefully this time it will stick, and go back to 2v1s since at least teams found a counter to that so there was some risk in using the tactic or not.

'Cause I think this problem has been tried to be fixed for years. Not holding my breath though, pro teams are tricky buggers.

Renegen4/30/2014, 11:06:41 PM2 votes

Not sure if it's the right place to put it, but as a jungle main I just want to say I'm happy with the Feral Flare nerfs. It's OP and needs to be toned down seriously.

ImElvis4/30/2014, 11:39:50 PM2 votes

I say, bring back the summoner spell fortify, it might actually have a usage again with this meta.

mifinti5/1/2014, 12:30:36 AM2 votes

Is there any data that could compare how games went w/ and w/o the explorer ward in S3? I wonder if one or two early wards can make the difference. If so, a mastery point that gives earlier trinket availability could produce the same effect.

Angry Monster5/1/2014, 12:57:29 AM2 votes

I am going to say something that people are going to find maddening(meta sheep). 4 0 pushes were not that bad. And there was a lot of possible map movement that was never fully explored by LCS teams. Hopefully C black come up with more inventive stuff.

That said I am happy about the tower changes and the trinket changes. Forcing supports to buy wards and suspend gold items for the start of the game was sad to watch happen.

I had a friend ask Merello about the forced meta of bot duo at pax. Glad that what he was told is coming true.

Pferdekaiser5/1/2014, 7:04:28 AM2 votes

naice Fizz

mattekiller585/5/2014, 6:35:14 AM2 votes

riot plz look at this you need to add voice chat plz! http://youtu.be/1n7KstfRzvs

Nemeryo5/6/2014, 9:43:53 PM1 votes

trinkets ready before 120sec seems a good idea to prevent the 4v0, and we finaly can have some vision to protect buff. So back to the 4.0 vision is for me the best, I think. But can we invade with trinked ready in 90sec? And prevent all invades is so borring :/ So it's a very difficult situation, ok.

For the drake, nice !! In late, drake is a little bit useless and forgotten, but in early, that reinforce the Dragon's role, and the tf in early near drake. Very good patch for me, thanks a lot !

PS : it's so hard to speak English ^^'

Snowplosion5/2/2014, 2:32:46 PM1 votes

Seems nice

KSHarrison5/2/2014, 4:16:40 PM1 votes

Awesome. It was specifically the trinket change and teleport change that caused the meta shift to lane swaps; now that the trinket change has been more than reversed, we hopefully have more balanced-value openings.

One question I have: Why did you increase fortification of the bot lane turret? The weaker bot lane turret was one of the disincentives to force a lane swap, because the team initiating the swap was going to be at a tower push disadvantage as they pushed top slower than bot.

To preserve this trade-off mechanic, wouldn't it at least make sense--if you are going to fortify bot outer turret--to also fortify top inner turret?

I wonder if there's also potential, since both top and bot outer turrets are fortified, whether it might actually become viable to fast push mid. I'm not sure what the deterring factors here would be.

ty dfg rip dfg5/3/2014, 1:56:08 PM1 votes

awesome

deseick5/7/2014, 7:45:22 AM1 votes

g

SeñorFueguito5/5/2014, 7:57:06 PM1 votes

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WinterMage425/6/2014, 2:48:57 AM1 votes

Still waiting for the lane layout to be changed, so when I play on purple team I can actually see something...

FantasySniper5/6/2014, 9:08:17 PM1 votes

Woah, the bot lane changes need to go in the other direction. Increase their time, because the second the tower's early defensive stage goes down, there is usually a jungler or someone else helping to get it destroyed, and increasing their overall resistance won't fix that.

Pada15/1/2014, 12:15:15 AM1 votes

Finally some good changes. now plz nerf soraka mundo.

Baysh5/1/2014, 6:15:21 AM1 votes

please something i wish to see is a change to the gold generation items. The passive of Frostfang grants wayyyy more gold than nomad's medallion, almost twice as much sometimes! even though the difference is basically 2 mana and 5 hp regen as opposed to 10 ap.