I think I know how to fix Will of the Ancients

Linna Excel·Feb 20, 2014·9 votes·1,385 views

WotA is in a pretty bad spot and is one of the worst items in the game. While it doesn't cost so much, the stats are meh. Only 50 AP, 10 mana/5, 10% CDR,and 20% spell vamp.

Reducing the AP it gave its buyer by 30 and adding the mana turned off a lot of people who used to get it and frankly it is difficult to justify now. There are just too many other good options out there for AP champs.

So how do you fix it?

I was looking at Athene's when it hit me. This item need to build out of a chalice and work similarly to Athenes. Here's how I'd fix it.

First the recipe. I'd make it plus a and set the total cost about 2500 gp. Then I'd redo what it gives you stats wise.

Here's what I'd have it give: 40 AP 40 MR 10 Mana/5 10% CDR

Then I'd add the following passives 20% spell vamp +1% mana regen per 1% missing On a kill or assist, you get back 12% of your health (it'd also share a unique name with Athene's mana version so you can't double up).

So I'd essentially remake it into Athene's for AP champs who'd prefer health sustain. No it won't give a lot of AP, but I think the bonus MR and the new passive would make it much more appealing overall.

That's great (I hope you are saying) but what about people who just want spell vamp... the manaless champs. Well, not to worry, I have an idea for that too. I was thinking ahead to make those players happy as well.

The Excel Scepter (I'm sure this name will get changed of course) :(

+ + 740 GP = 2800

100 AP
20% spell vamp
Passive: on hit, you do 10 (+.10 AP) magic damage and gain back that much as health.

This new items does 3 things: improves spell vamp itemization, particularly for non-mana champions. It will diversify AP builds more. Finally it'll give another item for AP on hit players to look at like kayle and teemo players.

28 Comments

Earl EulrichFeb 20, 20143 votes

just bringing back the old Aura would be sufficient I´d say, especially as Support item-choice for more ap-heavy comps (maybe you could even Combine it with the much missed manareg-Aura). Sth. like item 1004 + item 1052 + 120g -> Mage´s Augment (735g)

30AP
Aura: Manastorm - give´s 7 MP/5 to all allied Champions in x area and allows them to restore 1%of their maxmana on hitting a enemy champion every xy seconds

combined with item 3067 + item 3145 +215g -> Mage´s Embrace (3k Gold)

70AP
10%CDR
300Health
Aura: Manastorm - give´s 10 MP/5 to all allied Champions in x are and allows them to restore 2,5% of their maxmana on hitting enemy Champions every xy seconds, also dmging those Champions for the amount of mana restored.
Aura: Mage´s Embrace - gives 20%Spellvamp to every allied Champion in x area

I think this really could bring back a lot of manaheavier botlane-adcs that you rarely see nowadays + more ap-heavy compositions, that you don´t see too much nowadays aswell.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20142 votes

The fact that the old version was a good support item is something else riot needs to consider. However I don't think that the spellvamp in the aura was healthy (as it healed all your party while you could just stand there).

An interesting idea for a support spell vamp item would be something like 40 AP, 20% spell vamp, and an aura that heals nearby teammates a fraction (quarter) of what it heals you. It's probably not efficient enough for an AP champ to get, but a support would get it and be encouraged to get into the thick of things more.

PirSultanAbdalFeb 20, 20142 votes

I'm sorry but you are missing a vital point.

Spellvamp items were meant to be AD-lifesteal counterpart for mages. Back to then when Lifeleech was in its prime time, you could fill your health with 2-3 shots and stacking BTs on AD carries was a thing. Riot nerfed both lifesteal and spellvamp for early and mid game. They wanted game to be more dynamic.

What spellvamp seemed to causing problems was, unlike AD, there was no power limit for AP champions. AP was limitless power, you could increase your AP with Rabadon by %, there is no alternative for it on AD side. Your autoattacks and on-hit spells were only things you could rely on, if you were stacking lifesteal. But in a chaotic teamfight, you cannot guess how many times you will land a skillshot or autoattack successfully before you die or untill you have no power to fight and have to run away.

You don't have much to worry about how many spells you'll be able to hit before you die or unable to fight anymore and run away. That's because mages (who mostly benefits spellvamp) are fairly safe or has mechanics to help them to get away with that sticky situation without any harm.

But yeah, the biggest reason Riot dislikes spellvamp (and the reason casual playerbase in this community whines) is, there is not really a hard limit for ability power and magic damage. Think about this:

Lich bane is Trinity Force's AP counterpart. Whilst Trinity Force's spellblade won't scale with AD or anything, Lich Bane actually scales with more ability power you have in your disposal.

Also that's another reason why non-spell effects won't proc spellvamp (for example lich bane's spellblade effect and Arcane Blade mastery) is to limit the incredible power of combo mages and safe casters.

Unlike spellvamp, lifesteal procs almost every non-spell effects if they are dealing physical damage (for example, Sheen and Trinity force)

Current WotA is amazingly slot inneficient and there is no reason to buy it over gunblade. Gunblades active is also lovely and scales with AP and procs spellvamp too.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 20, 20143 votes

I always thought the "equivalent" (if you can call it that) of Deathcap in AD was Infinity Edge; Spells can't crit and never will be able to. AD can. The tradeoff is that Mages get a % increase on their AP and AD gets crit chance.

PirSultanAbdalFeb 20, 20141 votes

Yes, if you put it in that way, it looks simple. But critical chance is completely chance-reliant factor. The number generator works different in this game, but it really doesn't matter unless you are Yasuo and/or have %100 crit chance. Then what you say can only be applied to those who has GUARANTEED critical damage and/or increased critical damage through runes and Infinity Edge.

However, the magical counterpart of this item, Rabadon i mean, as you think, GUARANTEES to increase your every AP relevant ability/item.

Also, even when you have a guranteed critical damage, it also requires you to autoattack your target subsequently to be efficient or equal with AP counterparts, casters and combo mages i mean.

Critical chance is still not as much effective as a pure Ability power and Attack Damage is no match to Magic Damage. Also keep in mind that there are so little item choices to counter AP/magic damage dealers, whilst there are many alternatives to counter AD/autoattack reliant champions such as FH, Randuins, Thornmail, Ninja Tabi, Doran's Shield, tier 1-2 defensive masteries etc.

NeroUSFeb 20, 20145 votes

item 3102 item 3065 item 3139 item 3111 item 3091 item 3156 item 3174

Not enough counters to AP damage?

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20141 votes

Most AP based champs wouldn't think twice about any of those save athenes or if they were desperate, SV.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 21, 20142 votes

If you are just saying mage-counter items in general (which is what I was led to think we're talking about currently), I would say all of those except maybe item 3091 are commonly bought and good items. AP based champs don't usually buy defensive items and if they do, it's like their last item to counter something that's been blowing them up (say a fed Veigar or something). Same with AD: a late banshees or QSS to counteract whatever is frying them fastest is what they will usually do.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20141 votes

Some of those I wouldn't get on a champ on which I would get WotA on (even in my preposed rework state).

Scimitar and maw are right out.

Wit's End doesn't work on most AP camps because few of them build or play around on hit builds.

Veil is better on bruisers and tanks. Getting that as an AP champ is basically saying you aren't going to be doing any damage. It's not bad, but it's not as helpful for the position. SV is nice with something like spell vamp, but you need the spell vamp to begin with. And unlike veil it helps you out as an AP champ with the CDR it gives.

I mean there might be times when you want veil as an AP champ, but that's pretty conditional if you ask me. It's the sort of thing you rush if you are behind against Ahri... and she's not that common a pick anymore since they nerfed her. That said, it's best on bruisers.

That leaves SV (good overall but isn't helping you get kills that much), treads (conditional buy depending on the game), and Athenes (good all around for most mana based AP champs).

AbiwonKenabiFeb 22, 20141 votes

Honestly, I don't really think buying MR items is worth it on an AP mage even if you are behind. If you really want defensive items, buy health; mages are generally going to be squishy regardless of whether they're ahead or behind (a few exceptions like Vlad, etc) and their money is just usually better spent on damage/CDR items.

Even if you DO buy a defensive item, health is better for when you are getting bursted ( item 3027 and item 3116 give great stats for this), and a item 3026 GA is great on assassins, and also has some MR (might do fine on other mages too).

Overall, I just think the reason there are less MR items is because of the unreliability of spells when compared to auto attacks (the equivalent of primary damage output for most ADs). Once an AA gets fired, it's going to hit, and the "CD" on autoattacks is always relatively short, especially on ADCs. Thus, more Armor items are available than MR.

One more note on Spell Vamp, it's a lot harder to balance than Life Steal. Sure your rate of attack is going to change and is a little different between champions, but it's going to be close enough that you can balance for lifesteal. Spells on the other hand wildly differ on cool downs; A Lux is going to spell vamp in bursts, but then isn't going to get anything for 10+ seconds after her spell cycle. Ryze on the other hand can machine gun spells and spell vamp is going to be OP on him if we balance it for someone like Lux.

Pollyanna WrightFeb 26, 20141 votes

Maw is a joke. Wits is very situational. Now go look at the armor options.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20143 votes

Over time, each percent of critical chance you get increases your overall damage by 1%. So it scales similarly to death cap, just a little differently in execution.

NoxiousIceFeb 21, 20146 votes

Except that most spells don't automatically hit, and most spells don't have basically no cooldown. A late game marksman build will have you dealing 500+ a hit, at 2 attacks per second.

Once a mage throws out their abilities, most of them are done, they have to retreat from the fight. This is why there is less itemization against magic damage than against physical damage. If the mage cant burst you, its over, they've lost. There are exceptions of course, but they usually have marksman or lower levels of health to compensate (I'm looking at you Cassiopeia).

With AD you get high damage in exchange for a chance at medium damage. With AP you get high damage with a chance at no damage. The chance is still there, its just that one has inherently less counter play.

The reason why Riot ACTUALLY has a problem with spellvamp is more based around the fact that it is ridiculously hard to balance due to cool downs. Most marksman have within a very limited range the same attack speed. Cooldowns vary wildly.

Additionally because of the nature of mages Spellvamp is extra hard to balance for in team fights because while marksman with life steel basically get HP/5 based upon their attack speed, and damage, casters get bursts of HP which means that spell vamp can rapidly change fights in unpredictable manners. Versus life steal which is very predictable.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20143 votes

There is a power limit on spell vamp. The first is AoE damage. The second is AP scaling.

TBH, champs who build glass cannon AP probably need more spell vamp like all ADCs need to at least get either Bork or BT. Melee AD champs can get Hydra as well, but they have to get close and personal first.

Pure AP champs, unlike ADCs, get next to no options for sustain in lane. You can't even get wraith anymore because riot made that jungle only. Also an ADC can sit back and sustain himself just by AAing minions. Most AP champs have to trade in mana to sustain via spell vamp.

My opinion is the sole reason riot hasn't been forced to add another spell vamp item is that AP mids have the luxury of laning alone. Unless there is a gank, they don't have to worry about the chance of getting burst down by 2 others really quick.

On the other hand, if you aren't at max, one nidalee spear or one brand combo could take you out.

Sire HippingtonFeb 20, 20142 votes

I also would like to see more spellvamp options, but more or less puting spellvamp on athene's is not very smart. The main reason riot nerfed spellvamp was that most casters can sustain themself from a save distance, only limited by mana.(and some manaless champs that heavily abused spellvamp, but those could get nerfed acordingly) If u combine heavy mana reg with spellvamp, it will probably leed to very stale lanes, as the only way to force ur enemy away is to 100-0 him. In ur case, there is even mr on that item, makeing it even harder for the enemy mage to get through ur sustain.

I'm all for more spellvamp options(especially an return of the aura), but a rather cheap item that offers resistances, (huge)manasustain and spellvamp will be damn unhealthy for the laneingphase imo

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20141 votes

Athene's gives you more mana sustain. And someone who gets that could still get the current WotA and have spell vamp as well. At least my proposal would point them into an either/or predicament. You can either have more mana and AP or life sustain, not both.

And the numbers could be changed. Maybe only 30 MR if tankiness becomes too much of a problem. However if you are behind in a lane, this new idea would be put to use as an anti-snowball item. Someone who is ahead is probably trying to maximize his AP, so only someone even or behind would consider this.

Sire HippingtonFeb 22, 20142 votes

While athenes gives u more mana, ur item still would be enough susatin for all but the most manahungry champs.

About wota+athenes, it would cost u ~5k gold to get those 2, and u would have 2 slots with low ap items, so u wouldn't get the spellvamp+mana sustain combo in the early laneing, and if u get both u do it at the cost off massive ap(wich is why no one does it)

I don't think spellvamp+manareg is problematic later on, but getting both at the same time on a rather cheap item would be a nobrainer for the laneingphase, especially with mr ontop.

SchtauffenzFeb 20, 20142 votes

The biggest thing would be remove the mp5 and adjust cost / other stats accordingly. WotA was the goto item on Vlad and Morde but since they are manaless it is now junk on them. Please fix!

PirSultanAbdalFeb 20, 20141 votes

They added MP5 and unnecessary %10 cooldown so they could gut Vlad and morde's power more. Supports were able to buy this item as well and it was giving huge sustain to those champions. Not to mention 30 additional AP aura gives.

Old WotA was amazing everybody agrees with that but Riot won't bring this item back or make it viable. It's better to forget about that.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20141 votes

Yeah, I liked the older version more overall and used to get it from time to time on champs like soraka, sona, and Ahri even.

My problem with the newer one is they aren't giving you enough for the loss of the aura and the extra AP. The mana regen bonus is only there for mana champs who'll be casting more often.

WapplaFeb 20, 20141 votes

I wanted to open a own discussion about Wota but i cant and i dont know why so:

My Suggestion would be replacing item 1004 by item 1006 because most of the champs who buy the item dont even have mana like Morde, Vlad, Kata, Rumble, Kennen and maybe even Zac. Also rise the Price by 100 or 200 and give it 60 AP.

To your suggestions: I really like the second one but i think 100 AP with that passive is really a lot for 2800g.

Linna ExcelFeb 21, 20142 votes

That would be an interesting change.

I will admit a lot of the people who are mad with the update are ones who play manaless champs. My question to them is, isn't it still a good item overall? You still get some AP, added CDR, and spell vamp.

RhytoFeb 20, 20141 votes

WotA has potential, its just the time required to make the item usable again, there should be a chart for most commonly used items in game and revamp those items that are not commonly used or not even touched at all.

Hirok0Feb 21, 20141 votes

IMH all the WoA needs is a mana regen buff and its golden. Its meant to keep you in-field longer, and having one item to heal an significantly keep mana up would be amazing.

Sneak DogFeb 21, 20141 votes

I believe spellvamp isn't allowed to be efficient because of the play pattern it gives. Lifesteal requires your champion to autoattack consistently and this will keep you at risk for longer amounts of time in return for sustain. Spellvamp requires your champion to blow all his spells. While you still need to get in range, you only stay in range for a very short amount of time and retreat afterwards, waiting for your next rotation to heal, giving it significantly less counterplay than lifesteal.

Another point is that someone building lifesteal either builds complete glasscannon adc or only has limited use of it because he is not focusing all his items into autoattacks, but also relies on abilities to deal damage. This autobalances itself so that the highest sustain is given to the squishiest champion. (Either that or you're Nasus, this is not a Nasus thread)

Spellvamp however scales with ability power (not considering ad casters here, they have lifesteal). Ability power often can be effeciently splashed with survivability like Zhonya's, Haunting guise and Abyssal. This means that the autobalancing effect of lifesteal doesn't work as effectively for spellvamp.

Lastly, not many champions need spellvamp. Most mages just want raw burst, better long-range poke or if they do stay in a fight for longer amounts of time, a Zhonya's hourglass. The champions that do want spellvamp would be very abusive with it during laning phase (Vlad, Morde).

Knight DevoutFeb 22, 20141 votes

I really like Linna's scepter (much better than Excel Scepter tbh), altough I think that AP on spellvamp item isn't a primary stat, the extra magic damage on hit is useful for champions as Diana (who also scale well with AP of course).

Gameplay wise, I think spellvamp should be looked into: is it now in a state of poor itemization because, as more experienced playes have already said, Riot didn't want mages to sustain. On the other hand, as the game evolved we now have more and more AP fighters who just can't buy a Bloodthirster/Hydra as any AD/Fighter, but still need some sustain, like Akali, Diana, Morde, etc.

Pollyanna WrightFeb 26, 20141 votes

I don't think it would be wise to have a MR+Spellvamp item. With tons of mana regen. That's like asking people "Hey, only build this! You won't ever have to go back unless they burst you from full!". I kinda like the second item.

Linna ExcelFeb 26, 20141 votes

Okay, after a lot of posts, one common problem with my "rework" is it gives too many stats to a single player while not making it friendly to manaless champs. Even though there's defensive items which give you MR and sustain, an offensive one doing that is bad. I partly agree (I stillpartly think it could be done with the right numbers).

I think mana regen is probably going to stay on it so mana champs can get it. Does that make it more inefficient for manaless champs to buy it? Yes, but two faerie charms isn't too expensive.

So time for take 2.

**Will of the Ancients (my version) **

60 AP (needs 10 more at least)
10 Mana/5
20% CDR (makes getting 40% easier)
20% spell vamp
Active: for 5 seconds your spell vamp heals all allies within 400 range. (Could be a passive)

The old version was a niche item on supports because it'd let them help allies, whereas the new version is much more selfish. So I think boosting the stats it gives a little and giving it an active which allows supports to heal allies as they attack might help. However I'd prefer it being a passive effect that triggers when you damage an enemy. So at least with this version the support has to get involved for the healing to work.

** Linna's Scepter (take 2) **

100 AP
20% Spell Vamp
Passive: on hit, you deal an additional 6 plus your level magic damage and get back that much as health.

I think if the devs are ever going to take a look at Linna's Scepter the on hit needs to be in a safe level and it shouldn't step on the toes of Nashor's. So making the damage and healing level based should keep it balanced and allow more counterplay. It gives you just a bit more sustain when attacking without the potential for being broken.