Is it time to change trinity force?[Spellblade discussion]

Knight Devout·Feb 15, 2014·3 votes·798 views

Trinity force is a flagship item for its game, and it has been around for a lot of time with just minor adjustment. Because of that, I think that it should be updated, after having set some clear goal for what this item is supposed to do. Back in season 2, I remember trinity being a good for all item that was in the suggested builds of an awful big pool of champions. With time it slowly lost popularity to the newer, better season 3 items, but then had a second wind with the Phage change and the Spellblade buff (from 150% to 200%) make it a really good item again.

However, I think that trinity is still searching for his most effective solution in filling his job and that its current form it's too much selective. As with wands from Harry Potter, and Bejelit from berserk, it's the trinity which choose it's owner. You don't scale with trinity, it's trinity that scale with you: if you have good base stats and spammable spells, you are a worthy candidate.

First of all , what trinity is supposed to do? Much depends on the people you ask this, and I think not even Riot devs have a single answer for this. However, my POV is that **trinity force is supposed to grants tanks and bruisers with baseline damage while granting them a little of useful stats such as movespeed, crit, mana , health,and AP ** The aspect that really rubs me the wrong way of spellblade is its mechanic:

SPELLBLADE: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals bonus damage equal to 200% of your base attack damage as physical damage. (2 second cooldown).

This is what makes Spellblade so "edgy" and unable to find a correct slot . Because, depending on the champion, is either a core item or total garbage, regardless of the champion role, but due to it being balanced around an average case.

HOW I WOULD CHANGE IT I think the most important aspect to preserve it's the baseline damage (stacking on your base AD) and the internal cooldown of 2 seconds , to avoid bursts from champions as Rengar or Diana. However, I'd grind down the damage from spellblade while granting that damage to a wider pool of champion , so that trinity force could be a good item for those bruisers who cannot rythmate their abilities with the internal cooldown of Triforce(Like what Udyr does), but also decreasing the damage it deals in its best case scenario.

I'd make Spellblade be applied each 2 seconds as an on-hit effect,but the buff itself could be stackable on the wearer and last 6-10 seconds, so that champions who need to "chain" their spells to get close to the enemy wouldn't end up wasting precious spellblade stacks, and champions who always have an ability available each 2 seconds wouldn't be able to costantly proc triforce for a 200% base ad damage.

Example:

Spellblade: After using an ability, you gain a stack of spellblade, making your next basic attack deal 175% of your base Attack Damage as bonus physical damage. Spellblade can be stacked up to 5 times but can only be used once every 2 seconds. Each usage of spellblade refreshes the buff duration.

Opinions and critics are well accepted ^^

EDIT: it appears that for some reason, people are assuming this is a buff to trinity force spammers such as Ez and Udyr. It actually affect them negatively, and it's a buff for those people like Malphite or others. When discussing this changes with a fellow friend amused by theory crafting, he asked what would happen if a champion like Riven would buy triforce. However, even without chance to actually testing it, we came to agree that, if a Riven player ever felt the need of a trinity force, he would most likely buy the live version than the version I suggest. Champions like Riven , or Ez, have an ability that involves little decision making and that often needs to be used as soon as it's off cooldown, combined with low cooldown. To be more accurate, Mystic Shot, as well as Riven skillset (as Udyr) it's so well tailored that you feel you can use the ability as soon as it is off cooldown.

A champion like Riven already makes the most out of trinity force, because due to her skillset and low cooldown, she will most likely use an ability in a short time window after the Triforce internal cd has elapsed.

LEt's now compare that to Sejuani, for example. Sejuani skillset is gated by cooldowns , and she cannot afford to wait for the internal cooldown of Sheen between an ability and the other. You use permafrost when you need to use permafrost, unlike an Udyr Stance, or Valor, or Mystic Shot.

In the case of Malphite (proposed by Wicked and quoted down in the discussion) we have a champion with very high base stats that can afford in a offensive/utility/defensive item such as trinity force because he already has huge defenses to begin with, and he will naturally be able to survive the fight to proc Triforce more. On the other hand , we have champions like Udyr. WHy does Udyr love triforce? BEcause due to his ability to proc spellblade as soon as the internal cd has elapsed, he can milk out so much offensive damage from it, that he can afford to go full tank and still be a serious threat when in melee range of the enemy squishier targets. For champions such as him, the number of Spellblade procs is already near it's maximum number (the ideal case with a proc each 2 seconds). Having more procs with a diminished damage wouldn't help them. On the other hand, champion such as Sejuani, or Jarvan4 , or Nautilus, would be able to tailor themselves better by having this option open with minor drawbacks (i.e. When you EQWR in a enemy team and you feel like a fool because you have to wait 6 more seconds before your next ability comes off cooldown).

11 Comments

Crimson MuttFeb 16, 20143 votes

http://www.mobafire.com/esports/news/alliances-wickd-explains-trinity-force-malphite-343

A pro player explaining how someone who can't spam spells can use Tri effectively.
If you think that Tri is just a glorified Sheen, you're wrong.
It's a big part of it, sure, but Tri is much more than just an upgraded Sheen.

JackAquaFeb 15, 20142 votes

I liked where you were going with this, right up to your final solution.
I don't see how that "stacking" helps with anything.
You're right, there is a difference in Trinities strength depending on if you can spamm your spells, but I don't think this is the right solution for it.
Sorry that I'm not stating a better solution here, I probably just sound annoying :)

Knight DevoutFeb 16, 20141 votes

Don't worry , i appreciate the critic , but i think , you are missing a key factor involved in the stacks: while on live champions like Jarvan lose some damage from the buff refreshing and overlapping, with stacks they would be able to make the most out of spellblade regardless of combo. Now, i know jarvan is not a good example , but any champion who uses an ability during the 2 seconds internal cooldown , is wasting a charge . Perhaps I'm not clear enough with the benefits of stacks? While keeping the damage, they allow the cast of multiple spell without spellblade being refreshed without being used .

JackAquaFeb 16, 20142 votes

Yes, but wouldn't that actually buff the champions that can spamm their spells and leave the ones who have massive cooldowns out in the cold ?

Knight DevoutFeb 16, 20141 votes

mmmhno, I mean, spellblade will OBVIOUSLY reward champions with low cooldown more than champion with long cooldown, but that doesn't change the fact that allowing champions to stack the buff will make champions who have to combo their skill save some stacks and get some extra damage that is currently going to waste on live. The fact that some champion will scale better is something true to the whole LoL itemization, I just want to make it more fair for a larger pool, not make it even for all the champions of LoL.

Let's take Jarvan as an example,( although I doubt he would get a trinity force in his build, Wicked went as far as buying it on Malphite, so you may never know).

**LIVE **

with Live triforce, J4 throws his flag on an enemy, close on him, lands an autoattack, and pops his shield while the enemy starts to escape or before he blinks away, which means in less than 2 seconds, and then proceed to stick for his target for 6 seconds before disengagin. He uses spellblade for a total of 2 procs, one when he closes in, and one with the second proc from Dragon strike.

2Procs total damage =400% base AD.

/---------/

With suggested changes : Jarvan does the exact same thing, but this time he gets 2 stacks from Spellblade buff when using the DemacianStandard+DragonStrike combo, one of those stacks is immediately used when he connects and reaches his enemy, the other is saved. He uses his golden aegis , gaining another stack, and in the successive 4 seconds he uses both of them on his enemy before Dragon Strike comes off cooldown, at which he point he uses it (and land another attack), then disengages.

4 procs total damage= 700% base AD

Is it a little more clear where the gain is?

MarthianFeb 16, 20141 votes

It isn't for everyone. I think it's in an ok position, although the Spellblade passive could be nerfed a little bit perhaps.

Then again, it's expensive.

Knight DevoutFeb 16, 20141 votes

I read it , and he also said that the main reason behind that was the extra AD from malph passive which scaled well with AD and AS.

Newbert NewmanFeb 18, 20141 votes

What about AD's and assassins that use this item? I don't necessarily agree that TF exists "provide tanks and bruisers with baseline damage". The item surely has that purpose but many champions are designed around a Q proc from a sheen based item, and TF is actually much more for dealing damage than Gauntlet for instance.

I like your idea in theory but in practice it would be really broken on some champs. 700% AD/for 4 spell procs on a carry that can spam his spells(i.e. EZ) would make his burst insane. If you nerf% per proc though it won't provide enough damage to be viable.

Knight DevoutFeb 18, 20141 votes

You totally missed here. You wrote "4 proc burst" .... 4 proc happens over a time window of 6-8 seconds , so I guess "burst" is totally out of context . For assasins , such as Talon and Rengar, it would be a buff because they can't wait 2 seconds between their spells. For spammers such as ez it would be a nerf.

Newbert NewmanFeb 19, 20141 votes

With EZ Q+R+E+W+Q(all of which can be performed in about 6 seconds), this would mean his next 3 AA get the "Spellblade" proc, where only his Q would get the proc before.

Basically you're saying that each spell saves a charge of "Spellblade" for the next AA. On-Hit abilities wouldn't save any charges because a charge would proc on use.

Am I completely reading your post wrong?

Edit:maybe burst is the wrong word but what I mean is EZ could deal more Damage in a short window with this change.

Knight DevoutFeb 19, 20141 votes

Yes , this is correct , but mind that only an autos each 2 seconds will proc the spellblade: champions like Ez have at least 1 ability like mystic shot that allows costant proccing of spellblade , and for them this is a nerf . The goal of the proposed changes it's to reduce the triforce total damage in its best case scenario while increasing it's range of possible users.

A friend of mine suggested that Riven would become strong from this changes, but it's the opposite: riven kit has such cooldowns that triforce is already used at the peak of it's efficiency , and any damage decrease would have thus huge drawbacks.