@Riot, so what exactly is your next move? Lots of us are dying to know.

RandomICE·5/11/2014, 8:59:15 AM·8 votes·897 views

It's a clear fact that the recent balancing jobs done to this game have been objectively slow and disappointing. I can understand the lack of any real changes done in patch 4.6 due to the fact that it's the patch that All-Stars is being played on, but 4.7 has also been just as lacking in any real substance, and I think it's fair to say that we are already looking forward to knowing what you have in store for us in the upcoming patches if only to restore some of our faith in your ability to make the game more fun instead of constant nerfs and seemingly homogenizing changes under the guise of being "healthy".

Looking at the two recent patches in the past month, it isn't hard to see why people are so up in arms about your balancing decisions. 4.6 was a barren and polarizing patch consisting mostly of simple bug fixes and tool tip updates (Okay), QoL follow-ups to Champion reworks (Again, okay), fixes to Healsummoner 7 stacking (Great), Cost efficiency nerfs to Feral Flare (Not so great considering a future point I'm about to make), and overbuffs to Null Sphere's magic shield (Terrible, as well as tying in to the same point relating to the Feral Flare changes).

Those last two patch 4.6 highlights are especially what caused me to have doubts with regards to Riot's ability to balance since both of them demonstrate a lack of a clear goal. Riot admits that Feral Flare wasn't addressed in the right way until 4.7, and Kassadin got a .5 ratio increase to his shield that immediately got reverted in 4.7. This is why I and several other vocal people (Including certain pros) scrutinize Riot's balancing choices because it was pretty apparent that the Null Sphere buffs were a bad idea in two ways: contradicting Riot's stance on having adequate counterplay, and their stance on not having any hard counters. I'm sorry, but how is having a shield that is impossible for mages to trade with while being useless versus AD casters not encourage hard counter mentality? You have effectively made Kassadin a hard counter to mages, while simultaneously making ad casters a hard counter to Kassadin!

This also leads to the point where if Riot takes an average of 3-4 weeks for a new patch to come out, and even then not much progress is made into balancing the game to be fun to play with a wide variety of champions, what happens when Riot makes a mistake like what happened with Kassadin's shield buff? Buffed only to realize it was a bad move on Live Balance's part and immediately reverted in the following patch. In that case you have effectively doubled the rate at which we can expect any real balance progress to that of several months! And even then, that's still not a guarantee that the changes will be to the benefit of players who are sick of seeing mostly nerfs to popular champs while underpowered/unsatisfying champs are left in the dust.

Having a nerf-centric balance mentality will only take you so far, as there is more to the champion roster besides just a "few outlier power spikes against a whole pantheon of champions who are struggling against the outliers" as Pwyff put it. It isn't just as simple as having most of the champion roster being one side (The "balanced" side) versus a few outliers on the other side (The "OP" side). You can't expect to apply Occam's Razor, nerf the outliers, then expect champions like Zac, Nautilus, Maokai to be played now that the OP's have been toned down (Some of them just right, others to the point where they join the ranks of the underpowered, which is what Riot is seeminly content with having).

Consider the following hypothetical scenario inspired by the mess of Season 3: Only five champions are considered competitively viable at the moment in the mid lane:

Diana Lux Ryze Orianna TwistedFate

Riot applies Occam's Razor, then proceeds to play whack-a-mole with these "clearly overpowered" champions. Okay, done. Now everything is peachy keen and we can expect better variety in the mid lane right?

Ahri Fizz Zed Kassadin Orianna

Wrong!

Okay so we got four new champions in the mid lane, BUT at the cost of four of the old ones? That doesn't make things much better. You still have a stale meta of only five viable champions at one time, but instead of buffing other champions so that they can compete, Riot's policy is to nerf because those champions were clearly overpowered from the start, despite the fact that they became popular because you nerfed the champions ahead of them.

So now we get to where we are today:

Ziggs Soraka Nidalee Leblanc Lulu

Still not a lot of variety here unfortunately. Though to be fair, there are instances where some other champions are brought out, but oftentimes, you see them STRUGGLE just to achieve the same results as the ones listed above. And rather than give back buffs to the champions they nerfed in the past OR to champions that have been unviable since forever, Riot's stance is seemingly to just nerf these champions! And it's all going to happen real soon to both Soraka and Leblanc if the patch forecast holds. And that's extremely disappointing to hear, when the last champions who are fun, satisfying, or otherwise viable are being nerfed instead of perhaps buffing the overshadowed champions to meet them halfway.

Which leads to the heavy backlash that Riot has been receiving in the past few months, particularly with the Skarner and Rengar reworks homogenizing their respective champions and sucking away all the fun and unique skills they had to offer, and the would-have-been Lee Sin changes that almost homogenized his playstyle that made him so popular to watch in the first place. I would sympathize with Riot and say that the response was unjustified and hyperbolic, but it is considerably hard to do so with how poorly they have been handling the balancing lately. And it's not because we as a community want to be as hateful and spiteful as possible when we are hyperbolic no, but it is because we genuinely want Riot to do their best to make League of Legends the best MOBA game the world has ever seen. But with their recent mistakes, and the seemingly long extended period of time it takes for Riot to make any real progress with the balancing, it becomes more and more difficult to defend Riot in this position, especially when they haven't been very open with most of their upcoming plans, and have been really unreceptive to feedback given tho their recent reworks.

So what can Riot do to make League of Legends a better game for everyone? Simple. Increased communication with the players, being more receptive to player feedback especially when their favorite champions state is on the line, doing a better job judging what changes will be good to make and what changes they shouldn't make if they will regret it in a single patch (Diana after IPL5 anyone?), going back and seeing what buffs we can make to champions that fell out of favor because perhaps we nerfed them too much? And overall having better empathy towards people who may seem toxic and/or aggressive but maybe just frustrated that they are struggling to find enjoyment in this game but are turned off because their favorite champion's playstyle is homogenized and no longer viable/satisfying/fun/unique.

Other than that, a good first step is for Riot to get a head start on that 4.8 forecast, instead of leaving us in the dark on what's going on, causing lots of players to assume the worst with regards to the game's balancing.

After that, consider looking at what's holding champions like Zac, Nautilus and Maokai back, maybe completely removing Zac's tenacity and reliable disruption was a poor decision considering what similar champs like Vi can do while also dishing out better damage. Perhaps give a look at champions with binary strength like Singed or Ahri and thinking about what we can do to make them less overshadowed and have more meaningful gameplay overall. Having an AoE slow, one single target melee displacement nuke, a steroid ulti and running in circles with poison trail waiting for CDs to expire is not good gameplay IMHO because it either becomes too strong and impossible to deal with or too weak and exploitable that you would be better off playing a more reliable top laner. Come to think of it, I highly doubt that with his current kit, Singed won't be part of the ongoing top lane buffs which saddens me considering he is one of the first champs I really enjoyed back in Season One, and in the event that he gets a new kit, I really hope it's not just another kit that's similar to another one. Also, some other examples of overshadowed champions like Ahri are also a frequent subject of controversy. Sure you can do great with her, but consider the amount of effort and resource management you have to put with her to achieve a similar effect to what Leblanc already does, and I fear that if and when Leblanc gets nerfed it won't make Ahri get played more, it will just mean that Leblanc gets played less. Graves versus Lucian also has a similar relationship. One champ does something similar to another but better, and having said champion nerfed won't make the other be played more unless the nerfs are so drastic that the champion is considered to be "Olafed" (Which I remind you is something that Riot is allegedly trying to move away from).

So perhaps better reliability on Ahri's damage is in order? Perhaps lowered mana costs considering how skillshot and combo oriented she is not only on her abilities but also for her sustain passive? Maybe giving Graves some more interesting mechanics in his kit besides an inappreciable smoke screen, a weaker trading tool in the form of Buckshot versus Piercing Light, a dash with an attack speed steroid that's also very hard to appreciate given that unlike Lightslinger, it doesn't help you take down turrets as much given that the CD doesn't get reduced by attacking the turret?

But I digress, there are a lot of things wrong with the game that I'm sure Riot is currently fixing and I have full faith that they are capable of doing so, I just hope that their balancing work is more visible to us the community and that they make less "one patch wonder" changes like Kassadin's Q and Diana's post IPL5 butchering that get mostly reverted all after one patch. I am aware that Riot expects us to be patient but the question is by how much? I'm pretty sure not everyone is willing to wait five years for the issues to maybe get resolved.

TL;DR: The community would be much more appreciative of Riot's balancing jobs if they were more receptive to feedback/criticism, more open and punctual about their plans for the future, and overall making more informed decisions when it comes to changing something (Less "buffing Kassadin's shield only to revert it the following patch" sort of deals).

15 Comments

Worgslarg5/11/2014, 12:34:55 PM3 votes

A few points.

"community" "appreciative" While more open lines of communication would be quite nice, in any gaming community, the vocal minority of players are simply put, trolls, and jerks. There will always be complaining over changes.

I would like to hear riot's thoughts on weekly/ bi- weekly balance patches for simply ability changes/ tweaks. While I agree with Sir ArmaMalum's points in this thread, it would give riot more knobs to tune for balancing.

Sir ArmaMalum5/11/2014, 5:24:39 PM2 votes

Impressive post, +1 for effort and clear points

While I agree that recent decision (largely feral flare) have had a running streak of negative implications, I actually don't believe more communication will be a cure-all, or even help as much as you would think. Riot's design team is experienced in handling power balancing and thinking about the big picture, and while yes, again, recent decisions have dealt a blow to the confidence in their decision I would still trust them rather than most advice coming from the community. I love the community, don't get me wrong, there are some creative and intelligent people here, but players are just that, players. Very few (comparatively to the millions of the entire playerbase) actually consider things like an ability tweak's effect on a game-wide scale, overall dps of a full kit combo, or appreciate less nuanced changes like mobility and utility buffs. Essentially I highly doubt the any input by the community majority will help with complicated issues like champion diversity most of the time, this includes myself.

Now, I do think there is a better solution however. Instead of increasing communication to the playerbase as a whole how about increased visibility of changes to the whole and a better PBE iteration for these changes? Longer, larger PBE testing cycles. More testers, more time. Using Feral Flare as an example, in my experience as a PBE tester I ran into two problems trying out FF. The first being I don't have enough time (I have random 10 minute bursts everyday) to keep up with the PBE regularly and keep up with my ranked teams' practice. The other being the PBE playerbase is not large enough or in some cases dedicated enough to provide accurate feedback. Most if not all games I've played champions are decided by what's been changed and there are zero competitive stakes. In other words, most play very laid back and look for simple things like visual bugs and obvious problems. PBE is not a good testbed for large balance implications because abuse cases are not sought after nearly as hard as the first day of live.

Granted, there is Riot internal testing for that, but there is a disconnect between designers and players that is very hard to avoid with any game design, as well as (from I understand) a lack of a large skill diversity. And increased PBE presence in testing has its own slew of cons, like increased 3rd party misinformation, additional servers being needed, additional maintenance staff for the increased strain etc etc. but I think it can be a net improvement.

Thoughts? (Although I do agree, the patch forecasts are great.)

Thales5/11/2014, 8:42:37 PM2 votes

I strongly disagree with this. The reason for relatively smaller balance changes is specifically to prevent situations like Diana or Olaf, and also because game balance is generally in a pretty good state. In solo queue, there's almost no champions that it's really problematic to play, and even in the LCS, there's still a lot of champs seeing play in almost every role but top lane, which Riot has been focusing on these last few patches (with buffs, not nerfs, I may note).

Yeah, there's some champs who don't see tournament play, but that's just because the core strengths and weaknesses of their kit align poorly with the priorities in competitive play. They're not weak; that's actually the problem. To have Malzahar or Amumu see LCS play, they'd have to be wildly overtuned to the point where they'd be tearing apart solo queue even more than they already do. Of course, Riot could always rework them to better align their kits with LCS priorities... but that would be the "homogenization" you're so afraid of.

There's only a few champions I'd say are in a really bad state (Urgot, Sion, Poppy), and Riot has those on their radar. This is way improved from when I first started playing, when picking Eve or Heimer or Ezreal was practically a reportable offense. We no longer have Cho's win-rate spiking phenomenally in December, when the Winter Rift made his Q invisible. We no longer have a rush of unpolished, unbalanced champions coming too fast for either the community or Riot to handle. The player base is growing less toxic and unpleasant every month.

There's trade-offs, of course — no map skins, slower release tempo, focus more on fixing the sins of the past than on forging into the future — but I see this as signs of a company that's learning caution, design, and maturity. And those are the qualities that will ensure that there's still a League of Legends to enjoy five years down the line.

Remlap12235/11/2014, 3:27:09 PM1 votes

You basically hit the nail on the head here. Every single point proven. Because of this lack of consideration into the player base, we have a really stale meta of 20% of the 119 soon to be champions being played (I'm getting a ominous suspicion that Braum is going to overtake Leona as the stale support champion, followed by an incredible beating with Morello's nerf bat, then go the way of Yasuo and Velkoz and Twitch). What Riot needs to do is the champions that the community has a clear agreement that are either overpowered, lack counter play, or are simply bloated (Leblanc, Jax, and Nidalee respectively) and bring them down to acceptable levels (and absolutely do not Olaf them in the process.) Secondly, they need to get cracking on putting the champions that they have kicked the crap out of back into good standing (see sexy pirate lady here? MissFortune do the exact same thing to her male counterpart Gangplank). And finally, in terms of reworking the gutted champions that Riot clearly agrees with have lost their identities and power (Alistar Anivia Blitzcrank Corki Darius Evelynn Fiora Galio Gangplank Garen Gragas Graves Hecarim Irelia Janna Jayce Karthus Lissandra Lucian Malzahar Maokai Mordekaiser Nami Nautilus Nunu Olaf Orianna Poppy Quinn Rammus Rengar Riven Rumble Sejuani Shaco Shen Singed Sion Skarner Sona Talon Taric Tristana TwistedFate Urgot Viktor Vladimir Warwick Xerath XinZhao Yorick Zac Zilean Zyra do you see all these champions Riot? That's 54 champions that have been neglected. THIS IS WHY YOUR SUMMONERS ARE PISSED.) GET ON IT! One one hand, as a Gangplank main, I'm excited that he's getting reworked, and hopeful that I won't have to stick him bot lane as a support (something I coined as getting Blitzcranked). But on the other hand, I'm scared that they're going to gut his identity the same way Rengar, Skarner, and Evelynn players have had their kits homogenized beyond recognition (although I will say that Miss Fortune's recent rework restored confidence in me slightly). It's extremely sad that it has come to this point, because this hasn't been an isolated issue. This has been a long time coming, and if Riot actually put the proper mindset into fixing this mess, we wouldn't be anywhere close to where we are right now. I don't like going on soapbox rants like this, but it has gotten to the point where I believe this is necessary. Riot, I love League, and I love the way it's set up as a game. But you've got to fix these major balancing issues unless you want people jumping ship to your ever increasing competition.