Will you help make a change?

Someshta·Mar 31, 2014·5 votes·555 views

We as a community need to voice our concern with how matchmaking functions with Disparate Duos. DD's destroy ranked game balance and make playing with a friend both frustrating and intensely demoralizing.

A DD is a duo consisting of players who are at least 4 divisions apart. Currently the major factor in matchmaking is equalizing both teams average MMR. When 10 solo queue players are being matched this strategy works and you end up with teams where every player is within, let's say, +/- 50 MMR of one another. To belabor the point, let's say I join the queue with a MMR of 1250 and get matched with 10 solo players. Everyone on my team and everyone on the enemy team will have a MMR between 1200 and 1300. The distribution could look something like this for my team:

P1 MMR - 1200; P2 MMR - 1225; P1 MMR - 1250; P2 MMR - 1275; P1 MMR - 1300

The average of those ratings (1200 + 1225 + 1250 + 1275 + 1300) / 5 = 1250 MMR. And I would then be matched with another team of 5 players whose MMRs averaged to 1250 also. The key thing here is that everyone on both teams stays within +/- 50 MMR of one another. This usually leads to balanced gameplay and reduces the chances of one or two players determining the outcome, either by carrying in excess or, shall we say, not carrying in excess.

When a DD is added to the queue, things change drastically. Take for example a Silver 1 player queuing as a duo with a Gold 3 player. Now, I am not privy to Riot's trade secrets, and I neither know the specifics of matchmaking nor am I claiming to know those specifics. But, for the sake of argument suppose there is such a thing as a Target Average MMR (TA MMR) and that it applies to duos. This assumption only serves to help convey the final point and in reality has no bearing on the matter at hand, so stay with me.

The TA MMR is the midpoint between the DDs individual MMRs and for this example the midpoint between a S1 player at 1450 and a G3 player at 1600 is 1525. The other 3 players are then filled in so that our team meets the TA MMR of 1525. Now comes the point: During this process the Great Matchmaker says to himself, "OK. I've got a duo with a TA MMR of 1525, let's match them up with ANOTHER duo that has a TA MMR of 1525. Hmm....oh here's one! Platinum 3, Bronze 1 duo! That will work nicely..." So the problem is that when you work with a system based on averages, that system completely ignores the individuals. And since a Platinum 3 at 1850 MMR and a Bronze 1 at 1200 MMR have a TA MMR of 1525, the Great Matchmaker has no problem with this.

Well, I have a big problem with it and I think I'm not the only one.

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Let's recap to make it easy:

Disparate Duos are duos whose members are at least 4 divisions apart (i.e. Silver 3 and Gold 4). When DDs queue up for matches the matchmaking system allows even more disparate DDs to enter the game, say a Plat 3 and a Bronze 1. When this happens, each team's average MMR is balanced but the individuals on a team become extremely unbalanced. It is my experience that the presence of one DD almost guarantees the presence of another. Using a Team Average MMR to balance a game means that the skill level of the individuals is overlooked. So even though the teams may look balanced on paper, you might disagree when your Bronze 1 top laner goes up against a Plat 3.

As a side note: I can explain in more detail why the games become unbalance, but right now I just want to define the problem.

I know this has been a lot to read, and if you've made it this far I thank you. I won't try and say I have the answer to the growing DD problem, but I do know that a solution must be found. The majority of games which include DDs are extremely unbalanced and painfully discouraging. So we need to let Riot know, because I know they will find an answer if they realize how negatively this is impacting players. Let's talk about it!

12 Comments

Sir ArmaMalumMar 31, 20141 votes

Honestly I think the problem itself runs into the same problem that appropriate team balancing (for tournaments and such) runs into. It all depends on where the higher and lower MMR players go. A Plat support in an all silver game can make some sick plays, but can't carry nearly as well as if they went, say, Mid. And the lower player will still be at a huge disadvantage and has the possibility of feeding due to lower skill, but depending on where they go that problem could be exacerbated or diluted. Of course this doesn't take into account for DD's consisting of a smurf, but I think that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Personally, I've played against Diamonds and Plats as a Gold IV player and won about just as much as normal. When it comes down to it, one great player does not make a team. It can help for sure, don't get me wrong, and it can be used as a huge advantage if positioned right, but the thing about averaging is that to have that advantage you have to bring a disadvantage as well (the lower MMR player), again assuming no smurfs.

SomeshtaMar 31, 20143 votes

I'm glad you brought up what I consider to be the biggest counter argument to the DD problem: "One player does not make a team". I believe everyone will agree that, every now and then, one player actually does make up the whole team; either by carrying massively or by feeding terribly. But we all know that the majority of the time it takes more than one 1 out of 5 players to decide a game. And I am no different; I wholeheartedly agree.

Here is my rebuttal to this counter argument:

What is described above is the basic principal of the problem, highlighting the flaw in an average-based system. Here is the specific problem, and I'm going to skip trying to explain it mathematically because it's just guesswork anyway: A greatly disparate DD (for instance D3/B1) can be queued against a moderate DD (say G3/S1). When this happens the entire team balance is skewed because of the huge deficit between the diamond and bronze. I have seen in a case like this that a team of 4 Silvers and 1 Gold will face a team with 3 golds, 1 Diamond, and 1 Bronze. Again, the numbers work out for the team average but on an individual level its just plain crazy.

So my rebuttal is that, in fact, it is NOT just the two duo's who are unbalanced, but that in cases of extremely disparate duos whole teams will become unbalanced.

Sir ArmaMalumMar 31, 20141 votes

Aha, the individual level. There's a juicy topic. See, I agree with you there! An individual does have the capacity to carry a team in extreme cases, and DD's intentionally create these extremes.

The trouble with a general individual ranking on a multi-role game is that it can't possibly take into account someone's success in a certain area. And I think there is a solution that can be found in this. You see, as I said in my initial reply, most abusive DD's will naturally try to rig the game's positions to both emphasize their advantage (Diamond Jungle) and mitigate their disadvantage (Bronze Top), and naturally this will mean success in these roles because of their unfair strategy's advantage.

Luckily, however, Team Builder was actually made with this partially in mind. Lyte has actually mentioned individual role MMR matching within this system being brought in later. i.e. A bronze that ques with a Diamond and wins as a top/support often will have Diamond level MMR in those positions, but still be bronze in other areas, denying this advantage until he/she gets better in general. Granted the transition will suck, as the initial round of games to estimate role MMR will probably be reflected by you current MMR and this can be abused but later I think this can be a major step against DD's. Obviously, this won't be in all ques and wont't fix things overnight, but it is a step in the right direction.

Also, it's nice to see a civil exchange on the forums, thank you :)

SomeshtaMar 31, 20141 votes

I have to say, that is an interesting concept. In general I agree that having a role-specific rating would help improve ranked play, but I would still contest that the over-arching problem with DD's right now is that team balance is be skewed. And that problem is independent of the offending duo's gameplay strategy and really lies in the matchmaking logic.

Having said that..I would LOVE to be ranked based on my ADC play. It would give me an opportunity to really challenge myself and improve my skills in the role I find most comfortable. I'm sure there are a ton of people who want to see just how far they can go when playing their best. That's a cool idea.

Sir ArmaMalumMar 31, 20141 votes

and in the reverse makes sure you won't be matched up against high leveled opponents (due to playing awesome as adc) when your playing a less familiar role, like a fighter. I'm very excited myself, but don't expect it anytime soon, as TB right now is very incompatible with Draft Pick in it's current incarnation.

As for the the original subject, I think we can agree to disagree, as I think an opinion on this matter is heavily reliant on personal experiences. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, any advantage gained by abusing a matchmaking system and intended for that purpose a good sport does not make. I just don't think it's enough of a problem to revamp the matchmaking system currently.

SomeshtaMar 31, 20141 votes

Haha, yes I believe we have to disagree and I think there is something being lost in translation. But what you just mentioned - the flip side of role-specific ratings - actually addresses the DD problem pretty well. If the matchmaking system constrains matching according each player's experience in their chosen role, then even when the balance between each player's overall rating is skewed the games should be more even.

To be clear though, I don't think the DD problem relates to an abuse of the matchmaking system by players or to any phenomenon that players themselves have a hand in. I believe that the system itself spits out unbalanced teams when extremely disparate duos enter a queue, due to the matching being largely based on a team average rating.

Valon DureyMar 31, 20141 votes

Greetings, Someshta. Valon Durey, here; your resident Heimerdinger player. I agree that this is a terrible issue. Before I go on, I feel the need to state that the ranking system is a breeding ground for low self-esteem and high insulting. Anyway. Back to the point. DD's are just a sleazy way to unjustly scale the ranks of a system at least partially designed to verify your personal skill and validate a part of your existence, thus diminishing the value of said system. That said, I propose a simple answer. Ranked Queue Duo Restrictions. Basically, you can only duo queue with a friend in the same division as you. So, if you're a B5-B1 the very highest with whom you can duo would be a B1. Also, if your MMR is too far from your duo partner-say you:1600, partner 1800 (I'm assuming that's a fairly large gap)-then the HIGHER of the two would be restricted from joining the queue. I chose to exclude the highest because, technically, they're the one proposed to carry the other, which is, essentially, the unfair part. I, personally, believe this restriction would, at least, limit the exploitation of the system.

If you appreciate my opinion, I have plenty more in my many idea posts, here in Gameplay & Strategy. Just click my name to find my posts.

Cheers!

SomeshtaMar 31, 20141 votes

Good day, Sir Valon Durey! I thank you for contributing to the conversation. Though I notice you did not bump ;-). I implore you, and anyone else who has been oppressed by DDs, to help get some light shining on this topic and give it a bump! What we need right now is proof that there is player support for this change.

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On to the matter at hand: Proposing solutions is where we start to run across sticky ground. Who's rights take greatest precedence? Those of the DD's teammates or those of the DDs themselves? As a member of a DD, should I be punished because the friend I want to play with has a higher rating than me? As unsuspecting players in a DD game, should we be punished because someone at our rating wants to play with someone lower?

The best answer is, of course, that everyone has a right to play a balanced game with any friend they choose. How do we get there without stepping on people's freedom to play with friends? I don't know, but that's the question at hand.

And while we ponder that question, remember that the inherent problem is not the choice to play as a disparate duo itself, but rather the problem is how the matchmaking system handles them. The Great Matchmaker has been slacking in his operational refresher course.

And Valon Durey, I excitedly await my ADC summoner icon! Nice idea :-)

Valon DureyApr 1, 20141 votes

I'm assuming the bump is the little up/down icon with the number between, in which case, I just did. And, yes, it is dangerous terrain that is judgement and proposal but, when a problem presents itself, so must a solution. Often, that means sacrifice and challenge. As they say, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. I feel like an informed and impartial dialogue considering all sides and factors of the situation combined with the actual will and resources to implement significant and sufficient change is the only adequate remedy to any social or competitive issue, of which this is both. I do hope something comes of your post and, I wish you the best fortunes.

Cheers!

AndroudMar 31, 20141 votes

Okay, just saying, there are a few things i would like to change in league of legends, first off, for the pool party lee sin skin, i think that we he smacks the ground for is e it should be water, and the little vision eyes he has above the enemies head's should have sunglasses. Lastly yorick's ult would be sooooo much better and cooler if, he still has the time limit and everything, but if he gets a kill or assist on the person who killed him, he gets revived and comes back to life with the amount of life the spirit had left. That goes for anyone yorick ults, this is because it wud just be awesome, and in the description of his ult it says the spirit gives up itself so that the target can excact his or her revenge on the enemy, so now that they have their revenge, they should come back to life. Just saying this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand but i cant find anywere else on the forum to post it so bare with me ok?

SomeshtaMar 31, 20141 votes

I believe you can create a new discussion from the main page for the community beta. Hope this helps!

Rant AwayApr 3, 20141 votes

I honestly feel that Duo's in general are toxic to game play in ranked. You get two people who hop into games and demand bot spaces or just bully other team mates for not allowing them to play what they demand. I don't know how many times I've seen Duo's come in and be like "ZOMG IM A PLAT SMURFFFFFFF"