Boards›Live Gameplay Balance

Can someone please explain to me Riots "anti snowballing"?

TuxedoBadger·7/26/2014, 8:03:59 PM·6 votes·4,771 views

I keep seeing Riot say things like "we want to ensure there are systems in place that reward the consistently skilled team who can continually make intelligent choices - even when they're behind - to win the game", and "In order to dominate your opponent, you need to consistently outplay them, not just pull off that one perfect kill." However, it seems to me that if you pay attention to the patch notes, they are actively going against their statements.

For example, in patch 4.11, http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-411-notes, they give early kills more gold, first blood gives more gold, they LOWERED the bounty increase on players who are ahead, and let them get more kills before their value caps. I don't see how this is helping people who are behind catch up through consistent good plays if the snowballed player is worth less money than before, and they can get a ton more while being fed.

The increased gold cost on items (patches 4.10-4.12) also ensures that snowballed players get items WAY before the other team, and essentially shut a lane down from one or two deaths in lane.

I don't necessarily have a problem with snowballing, it's just confusing to see Riot claim one thing, and do another. It seems counterproductive for them to say a change is going to do one thing, when it so obviously does the opposite.

15 Comments

Riotricklessabandon7/28/2014, 8:51:21 AM6 votes

phreak did a really good job summarizing the changes, so there isn't much more to say about the specifics, but i figured i could write a little bit for anyone wondering about how we feel about snowballing in general.

snowballing is most relevant to our desire for players to be able to make meaningful choices throughout a given game. as it relates to the early game, there are two extremes to talk about: snowballing is too weak, and snowballing is too strong. when snowballing is too weak, players can't really gain a meaningful advantage out of the early game, so the early game is essentially a 'dead period' that doesn't really affect the outcome of the game. when snowballing is too strong, the first team to gain an advantage will rise above reasonable interaction (i.e., the opposing team cannot stop them) which makes the remainder of the game a 'dead period' that everyone has to wait out. we really don't want there to be dead periods since it's during those times when a player/spectator can easily feel like a given action is meaningless.

so, getting back to our current thoughts on snowballing, it essentially is a balancing act (just as phreak mentioned). we'd like there to be a meaningful advantage you can gain out of a given phase of the game that will transfer into some sort of advantage in the next (such that teams must consider the effects of the early game in their strategies), but the advantage cannot be so great that it decides the entire game (which would mean the game could be very 'coin flippy').

as it relates to the 4.11 changes you mentioned, we wanted to add more incentive to planning around the early game and trying to earn an advantage there through getting kills.

RiotPhreak7/27/2014, 6:55:05 AM3 votes

It's a balance. In the beginning of 2014 we heavily nerfed First Blood gold, etc. In 2013, all kills were worth 300, FB always 400. We made kills before two minutes worth 280 or 180 (+100 for First Blood). We simply toned that back to 225 (325 with FB).

So ultimately, it's about finding the right numbers. Directionally yeah we don't want a level 1 first blood to be GG. But we also want you to feel good about getting it.

TuxedoBadger7/26/2014, 8:39:15 PM2 votes

I feel like the best thing they can do to help mellow out snowballing (just mellow out, because it would suck to get a ton of kills with no return) is to bring back/add more mid game items, and scale the gold to stats ratio better. Right now the meta is to rush two complete items, and this is because having one complete item is a better way to spend gold than having two mid game items. I know there are a few exceptions, but I'm looking more at the big picture.

Linna Excel7/26/2014, 8:25:27 PM2 votes

The problem with snowballing is there's no easy way to fix it. Up top if one player gets ahead, the other is just screwed. Down bot if the ADC falls behind, he's worthless for the rest of the game.

The problem is "anti-snowball" mechanics tend to fail unless you focus on what the two biggest advantages in the game are: money and XP. Playing with costs doesn't help the team that is behind. The only thing I could see working as an anti-snowball mechanic is increasing how fast a team gains experience and gold (passive and CSing) when they are behind the other team. That would allow them to catch up.

The only other option is allowing there to be a good set of items to build that don't have individual items that cost 1600 gp. We need more things like Bork and Hydra. This is also why I think ER was hurt with the last "buff". If you are behind you need a finished item now and you probably need to be a little more liberal with your mana use. Now you get neither option.

This is why the early junglers are OP right now. It's because they let their team snowball from the get go.

Angry Monster7/27/2014, 1:22:22 AM1 votes

The problem is anti snowball worked just not in a way riot is happy about. Riot recently stated games are going to long(just like players said 4 months ago). This is the side effect of anti snow ball. The behind team has to make play after play to catch up. While the head team is now waiting to amass a item advantage to crack the base. So Riot fucked up, there ideas as usual do not meet with reality.

So to make games end quicker you have to allow more snow balling. This means they have to terminate certain philosophies and allow players who are ahead to accrue more advantages. Riot ran into the classic problem either you make end game only matter or you make early game matter. Only one can really matter. Riot tried end late game again and people are getting bored with 50 minute games. So they are going to pull back changes which means early game will matter more.

12tales7/26/2014, 8:20:12 PM1 votes

Riot previously implemented measures to prevent snowballing. They decided that they went to far, and dialed it back a bit.

It's not that they're saying 'We like snowballing.' They're clarifying the exact extent to which they dislike it.

IAmNeverViable7/27/2014, 5:44:00 AM1 votes

riot does not like when someone just got one lucky kill and would lead to snowball effect, causing it very difficult for the other person to get back up due to that one guy got a lucky kill.