When is phantom dancer a good pick over statikk shiv?

Critkeeper·2/19/2014, 7:15:43 PM·4 votes·1,051 views

My gut tells me never.

The fact is that the +10% critical strike chance and +10% attack speed doesn't provide as much damage as shiv procs do. I have done the math myself, and shiv is better in any of the following circumstances for damage output:

  • You are fighting someone with a ton of armor, so that the worth of the magic damage increases far beyond the worth of a slight % increase in your physical damage per second, despite accounting for last whisper.
  • You are chasing someone and only manage to land one hit every so often, so that the shiv procs on every other auto attack.
  • You are in a team fight where the shiv can chain to 3 other people.

Any one of these might be a niche circumstance, but taken together it pretty much exhaustively covers every circumstance you would be fighting in.

You pay 300 gold and lose 1% movement speed to gain the ability to move through units. So you are able to chase through enemy minion waves, and enemy champions to stick to a target, essentially. The problem is that ghost also gives you the ability to move through units.

You might be thinking "You could take shiv and ghost, or you could take dancer and something else, so thats a choice".

Its not really though. The movement speed you lose by not taking ghost and shiv makes diving without it pretty much impossible, so the fact you can move through units passively is moot.

Phantom dancer should just grant more movement speed than statikk shiv. Or maybe Phantom dancer should have an active that grants movement speed, or maybe even a stack system that works the same way shiv does that grants you a huge very short lived burst of movement speed on your next auto attack. Or maybe something else. Just make it worth buying sometimes; the alternative is currently superior in any practical circumstance, and not having a choice isn't a good thing.

14 Comments

pwndras2/19/2014, 7:42:02 PM5 votes

for me I prefer getting pd over shiv for most of my adcs. I just like having the ability to ghost through units and having the extra crit % is very nice for my single target focus.

in my head I like to think of it like I can either A) get a chance for 200 bonus magic damage every 10 attacks (charging without moving) or 2) possibly be getting more AA's off/crits off over the time it takes to get 10 attacks.

also nice on draven so I can catch my axes Draven

Valenten2/19/2014, 9:09:00 PM4 votes

The big trade off comes from PDs passive unit collision ignoring.

If you are on Draven you are solely autos and trying to catch axes so you can keep up your extra damage so the ignore unit collision is great on him. PD is better on adcs without escapes since you can just go through minion waves instead of going around them or pathing in between each one trying to escape.

Kosmicosis2/19/2014, 8:16:19 PM3 votes

I see your point. I have long wondered why the 2 items coexist even though they are so similar.

My preference comes from this question, "do you want an item 3031?"

If yes, then I get a item 3046, because every crit is that much more potent, and 10% more crit/aspd add up for the enhance crit damage.

If no, then I'd get a item 3087, because now I am not trying to abuse crit; I just want the ball of stats + the proc.

Also, Sivir gets amazing use of item 3046's no unit collision passive, when you take On the Hunt and her passive into account. Ashe also likes it while perma-slowing people and not having to worry about minion block for herself.

Letler2/20/2014, 4:16:34 AM2 votes

I disagree with your conclusion. Pd synergizes better with last whisper because of the armor penetration. Pd passive is worth more than you think and shiv damage output is lessened quite a bit by magic resist.

I think if the enemy team is building any kind of Mr shiv is a waste. So maybe you get 200 magic bonus damage but if the enemy has Mr that damage is dropping fast.

I almost always favor pd.

ShakeNBake EUW2/20/2014, 7:52:09 PM2 votes

10% extra crit chance is great on ADC's, especially coupled with the "Frenzy" mastery + IE + LW.

but yeah I would totally welcome some buffs to PD, especially if they were to movement speed.

Logros2/19/2014, 8:28:09 PM1 votes

I think it's better on Ashe. Passive and slow are so good with both of those stats.

Z Statistic2/20/2014, 5:00:04 AM1 votes

PD is for ignoring unit collision and going faster. SS is for waveclear, burst, and small aoe.

NeroUS2/20/2014, 3:13:15 AM1 votes

PD = Don't get caught by the minions. That's enough for me.

Kira Onime2/19/2014, 8:46:25 PM1 votes

I find shiv better early game to help wave clear and eventually get a PD once I'm 6 items, selling my shiv.

Galactus Baits2/19/2014, 8:48:34 PM1 votes

when i play adc i have a basic build that works on aot of them that with runes gives 100% crit with item 3046 item 3046 item 3031 u need another item to reach this with shiv so i perfer it in this situation but shiv beter in all others