Yasuo

Stacona·Jul 27, 2014·6 votes·1,729 views

I will only list the changes (most of which will be nerfs, but there are some buffs to some areas to emphasize the strength of that ability), so if I don't list it then my ideas have the ability do the same thing as it currently does.

Leave behind feedback, but do not downvote just because you don't like something, we can be civil here and have a proper discussion and/or debates.

Way of the Wanderer (Passive): Critical damage deals 50% less damage from 10% less damage (Steel Tempest (Q) goes from 25% less critical damage to 50% less critical damage) [NOTE: This 150%/175% damage based on whether or not you have an Infinity Edge just to clarify]. Yasuo gets a random stat that ends up being always consistent on him so with double the critical chance critical damage should be halved to be properly balanced and not just slightly less damage with double the crit chance.

Steel Tempest (Q): Cooldown adjusted to 6/5.25/4.5/3.75/3 from 5/4.75/4.5/4.25/4 seconds (Cooldown still goes down with attack speed and not cooldown reduction) Range increased to 500/525/550/575/600 from 475 units (3rd cast tornado range remains at 900 units) Base damage removed from 20/40/60/80/100 (Steel Tempest still acts like and has the same properties as a normal basic attack) Consecutive successful casts of Steel Tempest reduced to within 8 seconds from 10 seconds form a chain. (With the range increase Yasuo can be able to get his knock-up more often which means Yasuo can have more reliable ultimates as well even with him being the only knock-up on the team.)

Wind Wall (W): Duration lowered to 1.25 from 3.75 seconds. Don't get me wrong, I really like the concept of an ability to slash abilities in mid flight, but right now it is granting invincibility especially against ranged champions and this ability should be used for re-actively destroying a threatening ability and not put it up and be immune to everything, lower duration allows for better counter play.

Sweeping Blade (E): Mark duration adjusted to 12/10/8/6/4 seconds from 10/9/8/7/6 seconds STATIC Cooldown increased to 0.75 from 0.5/0.4/0.3/0.2/0.1 second Damage ~~REMOVED~~ changed to 20/30/40/50/60% Total AD as magic damage from 70/90/110/130/150 base damage (25% increased ~~base damage~~ per consecutive dash ~~also removed~~ attack damage ratio up to 50% increased attack damage ratio [maximum damage per dash is 30/45/60/75/90%Total AD], 60%AP ratio remains just in case Yasuo buys an item with AP like Trinity Force) Now with the increased static cooldown this will allow for more counter play as the opponent can better predict and react properly to what Yasuo will do, the lower mark duration is to compensate for higher cooldown in-between dashes. Removing the damage is for this ability is about the utility of the dashes and not about blowing someone up.

Last Breath (R): Range reduced to 1000 from 1200 units (this is so that Yasuo actually has to be within vision range of the enemy to use his ultimate and cannot ult someone from fog of war)

~ Stacona

EDIT: Okay, Yasuo will eventually just get straight up nerfed, or he can receive balance change which mean there will be nerfs to some areas and buffs to other areas similar to how my ideas are above. But if you people who complain about stuff like this because you "play Yasuo now" then Yasuo will not receive balance changes, he will just get flat out nerfed and probably flat out nerfed on multiple occasions over and over again until he is truly killed and no longer is viable at any elo range.

EDIT:

If you guys show interest in posts like this, upvote it, and see that you guys would prefer balance changes to Yasuo rather than letting him just get nerfed then Riot would consider him getting nerfed in areas and buffed in other areas rather than the inevitable nerfs that will be eventually happening to Yasuo. Because I can 100% guarantee you that this champion will receive nerfs at one point. Riot has tried to do balance changes before to champions, the community complains and then rather the champion getting power taken away from in certain areas and receiving power elsewhere in their kits and receiving a net buff they just end up getting flat out nerfed, to take Lee Sin for example, the community complains about balance changes and the champion will only just get nerfed later because rather than have people complain about balance changes they just nerf the champions to open up other champions to get played to get have those champions to be less dominating.

EDIT:

Just remember when Yasuo gets nerfed constantly and you complain remember how you people whined so much when people try to help the game out and suggest balance changes for champions who are currently in an overpowered state. I have now lost all hope in you people that do nothing but QQ, also as I write this edit I am also in an annoyed state which is the worst time to be writing things. Anyways, I tried to help, tried to share my opinions, but if you guys aren't going to cooperate and do nothing but complain then there is no point in wasting my breath. I have been slowly changing my ideas as valid arguments came up and persuade properly, but you guys do nothing but whine and complain and try to prove Yasuo is not in an overpowered state and do not even read posts and only see a few words and then read something completely different in your heads, and also do not think at all to what my ideas are trying to convey.

EDIT: I am listening to feedback and I am not being static about my ideas, list valid arguments and I will adjust my original ideas to match that of your's, I have already adjusted my original ideas slightly off of some of the feedback. The thing is I am hearing the same thing over and over again and people being in denial about Yasuo being in an imbalanced state right now. Yasuo's dash can have damage on his E in a different way granting it to be a total attack damage ratio rather than base damage, still would deal magic damage though, and the ratio gets increased by 25% per extra dash up to 50% increase damage, if you guys think the base damage removal was a little extreme. And to state here a marksman with Infinity Edge and Statikk Shiv will have a crit rate of 1/2 and so in two basic attacks the average damage is 350% assuming one of the attacks crit, while this Yasuo change deals 350% damage with two basic attacks and that is guaranteed every time to happen so Yasuo right now is disgustingly overpowered right now with how much damage he deals, meaning halving the bonus damage that crits grant balances out Yasuo especially since he gets two passives.

57 Comments

J P HendersnootJul 27, 20144 votes

There is already a strong bias toward ranged champions. Yasuo is probably the most balanced melee champ recently added to the game. If anything he needs to be tankier.

StaconaJul 27, 20144 votes

Yasuo is no where near balanced, he actually is very poorly balanced, with almost zero counter play in his kit- i want to open up counter play when playing against yasuo and actually make him 'hard to play as' he has been released for awhile now, it is time he can be properly balanced like other champions after they were released for awhile

DocRedgraveJul 27, 20141 votes

How retarded are you? As someone who has played 100 games with Yasuo, i can tell you there is counterplay. You're just too daft to notice it. Not only that, your changes make it so that Yasuo players can only stand in lane and think angry thoughts at their enemy. For example, no damage on Sweeping Blade? What the hell are you smoking?!

J P HendersnootJul 27, 20144 votes

Don't be rude.

DocRedgraveJul 27, 20141 votes

It's a bad habit. I get angry when I see people complain about Yasuo. There's always someone claiming a champion is OP and needs huge nerfs and it drives me up a wall each time I see a post like this.

StaconaJul 27, 20142 votes

These are balance changes and arent even nerfs because they may end up just being net buffs to yasuo, but just places him in a better spot in terms of being balanced- the only direct nerf is less critical damage- but this is something that needs to be fixed as double crit chance should be half bonus crit damage since this is the only way to balance this type of thing if Yasuo can get 100% crit chance with two items his BONUS damage should be halved to someone who has 50% crit chance

DocRedgraveJul 28, 20141 votes

You're overthinking this completely. What cheap item can you buy in the store to counter AD DPS champions? Oh yeah, item 3075 . There's also a mastery on the defense tree that reduces critical strike damage. And like I said before, having only two damaging abilities puts him in the same field as Gangplank which would make Yasuo completely uninteresting to play. Your changes would completely annihilate his early game and drop his late game to the equivalent of Pantheon's.

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

Late game is better that is the funny thing, he may be weaker early on but he scales better than what he does currently- GP and pantheon are early game champions which is why you see them played less right now because the game shifted to be more about the late game with late game champs- but having more self-knockups to be more consistent and just the fact of having more knockups is so big in teamfights-- even though his Q acts like a basic attack i dont think thornmail works on him even- yasuo's damage should be about his autos but more importantly having a skill shot basic attack- late game you wont even notice his dash doesnt have base damage to it since it mostly is for early levels 1-3 cheese which isnt healthy for the game anyways, but his laning phase is made slightly better with his Q having the extra range and the range going up per rank- just slightly less damage dealing and bursty as he should be about DPS and not bursting anyone out

DocRedgraveJul 28, 20141 votes

So your solution is to start giving the nerf hammer to a late game champ such as Yasuo? If so then who's next? You won't make any progress on balancing this game if that's your mentality.

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

The nerf hammer is what Riot is going to do to him, this post is to change that and to allow him to receive balance changes, but if you want to complain when people try to do this and not support the post then Yasuo will just get nerfs to him and probably on multiple patches over time. The phrase will be better nerf Yasuo than better nerf Irelia

DocRedgraveJul 28, 20141 votes

The only nerfs he needed was the elimination of bonus flow gain on each use of Sweeping Blade and the stack cap on it being halved. That's it. Everything you've suggested is completely outrageous.

J P HendersnootJul 27, 20145 votes

All ranged champions can attack from outside a melee champ's range. That's a given since they're ranged.

If you're range+1 as a melee champ you do zero damage while the ranged champ can plink away at you.

There needs to be a trade off for being ranged -- Ideally ranged champs would be significantly squishy and couldn't kite. Yas is the most balanced melee champ recently added because he has the ability to gap close and makes up a large part of the imbalance between range/melee.

StaconaJul 27, 20143 votes

Melee champions have higher stats across the board compared to ranged champs- i did increase the range on his Q- he can still gap close as well, he can stick to the same target better when his dash is maxed, i want the static cooldown increased so that champions can have the counter play to actually land skill shots to help them predict where yasuo is going, this also makes yasuo to not just spam his dash and actually has to think to what he is doing with his dash, but his Q not only grants him an AoE ranged basic attack but it also doubles his DPS because of Q-AA-Q-AA-etc comboes

J P HendersnootJul 27, 20143 votes

The ability for Yas to gap close is the only reason he is the most balanced melee champ in a long time.

Despite slightly higher base stats for melee champs they still do zero damage if they're at range+1.

Meanwhile, the ranged champ is still doing damage.

Still doing damage > zero damage.

Until that issue is addressed Yasuo is the best melee that has been released in a long time and all other melees should be brought up to the same level of play.

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

Too bad most melees are considered overpowered and actually needs to be toned down- meaning you agree that yasuo needs to get nerfed super hard where as my ideas to balance him is actually a net buff- you are just focusing on the nerfs- people were saying champions like kayle and lucian were trash tier with their "nerfs" and end up getting massively buffed in the patches where they think the champs got nerfed, kayle's latest change is a definite nerf, but she is still pretty overpowered right now as she is on live just in a better spot than what she used to be in

what i want is to allow counter play from yasuo and allow any champion to beat yasuo and have match ups vs yasuo to be about skill match ups and not about 'hey im broken and nothing you can do about it unless you are a bruiser like renekton'

J P HendersnootJul 28, 20146 votes

No. Most melees are not overpowered.

Yasuo does not need any changes except he might need a slight buff to his shield because he explodes in team fights.

There is counterplay to yas.

His shield: proc it with some small skill first. Akali Q for example or an AA (ranged to be salty) His Q: Build armor or FH and increase the CD. His W: It has a 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 CD. Either bait it out or use ranged skills when it's on CD. His E: Don't stand near minions. His R: Don't engage him when he has full Q stacks or Dodge his Q.

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

yes they are, melee champions have been such a pain for riot to balance over the years- they have slowly been making melee to be better balanced now than what they used to be- but they are still much stronger than range champs- range champs have offense build advantage because they are ranged so they do scale better but even then you still need your own melee to protect you from the enemy melees because even with full tank items they can still 1v1 beat ranged champions if the melee and ranged are equal in gold and the range champ doesnt have the correct peel or is unable to kite the melee

His Q is suppose to be his bread and butter ability and suppose to grant a unique range skill shot basic attack His W needs to be balanced and focused on stop a lethal projectile and not about being invincible or being the new fortify (that summoner spell was removed for a reason because of how overpowered it was and how much it stopped teams to wanting to be aggressive) His E still has a tiny tiny cooldown dashing around minions, but during laning phase this is inevitable because minions are important during laning phase I lowered the duration he can keep his tornado to 8 seconds from 10 seconds to reduce Yasuo's ability to zone champions because he has his knock up available, he has easier access to knock ups with a much lower cooldown to Q at max rank and with the range increase so he can get his knock ups and a lot more knock ups than he currently can get it just sacrifices his zoning power during laning phase- his ult doesnt effect his self knock up into ultimate combo, it just prevents yasuo appearing out of no where off screen with an ally gets a displacement effect on an enemy champion- similar range nerf to when kayle's ult range got nerfed to prevent invisible ganks and you arent even a stealth champion regardless- a 900 range skill shot knock up and a 1000 unit point and click ult doesnt even effect yasuo's ability to get his own knock ups- he just no longer can go from his turret to the enemy turret if someone like Vi presses R and he presses R too and the enemy actually has to see the yasuo in order for him to ult

J P HendersnootJul 28, 20143 votes

Pure and simple: There is no counter to range except gap closers.

If you have range you should expect to either explode in fights or do no damage. That is balance.

Until that happens Yasuo's strengths relative to all champions should be addressed with regards to the melee vs. ranged debate. Currently ranged champions are overpowered.

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

but his own range got buffed so did his gap closer as well as more knock ups and more reliable knock ups, all of his utility aspects got buffed- his wall does exactly what it is suppose to be just the invincibility and fortify ability of it is nerfed- you wont feel a difference with 200 less range when playing as yasuo for his ult, when playing against yasuo there isnt difference besides the fact that you now at least can see yasuo before and after he ults and not just after--- these changes are to balance him with adding counter play, and not just to nerf him, because overall he will end up being better with these changed, just fixing his overpowered elements

J P HendersnootJul 28, 20142 votes

He already has counterplay.

His shield: proc it with some small skill first. Akali Q for example or an AA (ranged to be salty) His Q: Build armor or FH and increase the CD. His W: It has a 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 CD. Either bait it out or use ranged skills when it's on CD. His E: Don't stand near minions. His R: Don't engage him when he has full Q stacks or Dodge his Q.

Melee champs need to be able to destroy ranged champs when ranged champs are close.

StaconaJul 28, 20143 votes

You don't even know what counter play is- and this change can destroy his prey more effectively anyways so i don;t even know what you are ranting on about- remember his Q resets his attack timer so you can AA-Q-AA for a quick burst of damage- anyways, if you want to QQ every time someone suggests a balance change for a champion that is currently overpowered then just enjoy your champion only receiving nerfs and nothing else to compensate

J P HendersnootJul 28, 20142 votes

You've descended from a reasonable argument to one of name calling.

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

There was no name calling going on at all- just the fact that Yasuo is an overpowered state right now so he can either A. receive balance changes or B. get straight up and flat out nerfs Option B is to destroy the champion until he is no longer playable while option A will emphasize his strengths while toning down the elements that make him a poor candidate to have counter play against him- and counter play is for any champion can beat yasuo if the player is good enough to do so- yes certain champs will do better than other champs- but a healthy gameplay will involve anyone can beat anyone and should come down to skill and what goes better with your team

J P HendersnootJul 28, 20141 votes

You don't even know what counter play is

Yes, I do.

Full AP VenusaurJul 28, 20141 votes

Ok play a whole team of ranged champions then and see how it goes

DocRedgraveJul 28, 20143 votes

Upvoted. J P Hendersnoot is right.

Earl EulrichJul 27, 20142 votes

Removing the dmg and the low cd of his e might by a tad much, just one of the two things should be sufficient.
the Windwall should only last 0,5-1sec to be a reactionary defensive spell, not creating a zone of invulnerability (especially for easy turretsieges)
I agree to most of the other changes, though i dunno about the q range....can be very frustrating to play againt Yasuo as melee already due to the constant q-poke

StaconaJul 27, 20142 votes

Well, it is now just the damage of his basic attacks since the base damage is removed, i wanted to give something to compensate for removing the extra damage- because of the slightly higher DPS on his Q with the lower cooldown this will allow for more damage and more reliable self-knockups as well as increase Q range all make up for the difference of not having base damages- so yes yasuo is slightly stronger against melees for being a better sudo range champion but if the melee can all-in yasuo they can still beat him, but weaker against range champions so there is a give and take- but overall i wanted to add counter play, create a more healthy gameplay to yasuo, and allow any champion to beat him and not just a few champions- yes, an even lower duration for wind wall than what i originally posted is needed- and it could be just be a 1 second duration, i'm just not sure to whether or not this ability's duration should scale on rank up

Earl EulrichJul 27, 20142 votes

will be up for testing, but currently he tends to dominate matches vs most melees that don´t just rightclick->kill (Garen, Xin...) if you know how to play him already. For the windwall...i guess you just want players to feel the ability increases in strength if they lvl it up? maybe the wall could be really small at rank 1 and just gain broadth per rank.

StaconaJul 28, 20143 votes

the wind wall already gets wider as you rank it up- i should just make the duration flat at all ranks just much lower to emphasize it slashing out abilities and not about invincibility or using it like the summoner spell fortify for anyone who remembers or knows about that

Remlap1223Jul 28, 20142 votes

Not gonna lie OP, I downvoted your thread instantly after I saw your proposed passive change. There was no need to look at the rest. What you are suggesting is beyond Olafing. It's Gangplanking. You are literally trying to destroy everything that Yasuo brings to the table, leaving nothing but his weaknesses. The problem with Yasuo isn't that he's overpowered, but he lacks meaningful counter play middle lane. In the meta of assassins, Yasuo is king. Yet literally any duelist, even Gangplank and Olaf, who's damage and utility is heavily mitigated by his wind wall, mops the floor with him. It's why Yasuo is never top. Yasuo doesn't need to be gutted. The meta just needs to shift so that we can see something other than assassins mid lane. And honestly, not touching Yasuo is the best bet for that to happen.

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

1/2 basic attack with the same build vs 2/2 basic attacks with my changes is 300% damage, 350% with infinity edge- meaning it balances him out and that he is really overpowered right now- and the first thing i said was that we can be civil in this post- regardless Yasuo will be gutted to oblivion by Riot soon enough so you QQ about my balance changes but Riot is just going to straight up nerf Yasuo into an implayable state

Remlap1223Jul 28, 20142 votes

Ah, so your definition of "civil discussion" is "agree with me or I downvote you?" Hi kettle, name's pot. Also telling me to QQ cuz Riots going to do it anyway isn't civil either, it's being the brat who thumbs his nose at everyone because he got his way. Again. As for Riot, well, they've, at least the balance team, has proven that they can't keep their priorities straight or properly balance their game, as evidenced by Skarner getting the nerf bat beating that was meant for Lee Sin. Who knows, maybe the Yasuo fanboys will QQ enough that he'll escape that nerf bat beating and Nidalee will get nerfed again. Then you can make another thread QQing about Yasuo being OP and you can further spread more toxicity, cause lord knows we don't have enough of that in this community already.

heavy sarcasm inbound

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

The QQ will prevent balance and allow for the nerf hammer, also you are the one downvoting me, anyways if you actually present and idea have a valid argument I will tweak my original post to reflect your ideas- but all that I am hearing is people crying and complaining and trying to not acknowledge the fact that Yasuo is in a poor stat right now balance wise and has a lack of counter play- healthy gameplay is any champion being able to beat any champion, just some champions have a better time at certain champions than other champions do which is what counter picking is suppose to do- a champion should never complete have full dominance over an entire class of champions in this cass Yasuo beating most ranged champions with the ranged champions having to play really far back and safe and try to get the exp and gold that they can muster that is not fun at all for the other player with that little amounts of counter play, there is a reason why Riot removed things like silence on mobile champions like kassadin and leblanc because of the lack of counter play in it and creates these really not fun lanes for the opponent and there is nothing that the opponent can ever do about it to counter attack properly or even counter attack at all. I don't even know if you even bother reading any thing I write and just scim over everything and fill in the blanks with your own words in your head.

Remlap1223Jul 28, 20141 votes

Yasuo has plenty of counters. Off of the top of my head: Jax, Fiora, Master Yi, Tryndamere, Olaf, Riven, and Pantheon. Yasuo's mid lane dominance isn't because he's the most powerful champion mid lane, it's because he has no mid lane META counters. Yasuo is a mid lane meta champion. The meta mid lane champions at the moment are Zed, Ziggs, Kassadin, Syndra, and Yasuo. And Yasuo counters every single one of them. Yet everyone top lane counters Yasuo. Wanna know why? It's because Yasuo's superiority has always been a META issue. Let me tell you what is going to happen if Yasuo gets nerfed instead of him being the Renekton of middle lane. Fizz will take his place, and he will be the new Kassadin, because Fizz has only one counter; ban Fizz if Ryze is banned, or QQ. And if you honestly think freaking Fizz, the long time reigning champion of most toxic mid laner is a better option than Yasuo, then you need to lane against Fizz more often.

StaconaJul 28, 20142 votes

I already know bruisers beat Yasuo, that is why he isn't played top, but he needs to be open up to counter play for every match-up and not just most melees- mages struggle against Yasuo because he has poor counter play in his kit, i want to open up that counter play for these champions can beat Yasuo in lane and they do not need to play scared against him- he can still be strong against them, but allowing him to completely dominate is not fun for the opponent and doesnt offer any interesting gameplay or strategic elements- anyone should be able to beat anyone, just some champions can be stronger vs other champions- right now yasuo just straight up wins vs certain champions and this is poorly balanced as it doesnt offer that counter play when facing against a Yasuo and you see this champion constantly banned because of this factor- whether he is OP or not has little factor into the fact that he doesn't have counter play in his kit and my main point that i want for yasuo is to offer counter play and allow for any champion to play against him and actually be able to do more than try to get farm under their turret

Knight SoIaire Jul 28, 20141 votes

no to all of these changes, just cause they dont make any sence at all if you will add more range to his q he will actualy become a ranged champ so your so called counterplay just went to hell (you speak about giving it to him and you propose changes that reduce it) and his aoe q will be hitting entire enemy team in teamfights so penta ults everywhere (get on the freelo train with these changes cause the creator smokes something strong ) if you will add dmg to his e especialy at late game he will just roll at a nearby minion wave and decimate anyone in a tf w is fine, as his kit is now w fills a role of a anti ranged wall and with his actual state of other abilities it works fine ult is also fine, its realy rare for yasuo to ult someone who he doesnt see cause you have to hover your mouse over the guy

yasuo has to be a meele dasher like he is, the counterplay to him is lane bullying and sending a tank to zone him (yasuo is realy bad at fighting tanks )

yasuo is pesky by nature thats why ppl yawn about his so much but in the end he can be killed like anyone else also he deals good with the actual meta (at least in my opinion)

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

You can play against range- the problematic factors is his wall duration and his dashes- his passive hasn't been balanced for being able to double crit chance- also, stay in bronze for all i care about you deserve to stay in there with your thinking anyways

Knight SoIaire Jul 28, 20141 votes

with my thinking i managed to see that yasuo is not op, in my games he dies when focused and deals damage when not focused, oh wait a normal adc does the same also you want his q to have bigger range than some adc's (vayne quinn lucian) 1 you want to nerf him (if he has no counterplay in your opinion and you want to give it to him, its a nerf ) 2 you propose the changes 3 those changes are composed out of buffs mostly, to everything totaly removing a counterplay cause he will kite the ranged champions infinitely why would he even need to ult when he can just outrange them and stay safe also if you will reduce his sritical too much, ppl will just go typical ad or youmus +static and much of ad and lifesteal and well just abuse the meele champion who has insane range and a shield allowing him to just live (right now he has to go point blank on you so shield gets popped, but with range he will always have it for the ppl who try to dive him ) and wont even need to use the wall to stop projectiles, just the global ults

so to summarize you mister should work at riot cause you think just like the ppl who "nerfed lucian" or rather added counterplay to him which revolved around giving him insane amount of power and allowing to easily overstep his weakness (that reduced the counterplay to a lesser amount than he had before ) or maybe you just happen to buy your pills from the same dealer

DONT MISTAKE A PESKY CHAMP FOR OP CHAMP ANY ADC WHO STANDS SOMEWHERE IN A FIGHT IS ABLE TO FREELY ATACK MOST OF THE PPL IN THE FIGHT, YASUO SUBSTITUTES THE RANGE FOR JUMPS WHICH IS PESKY I DONT WANT TO BE A MEANIE BUT (i just freaking love being an a'''ole) THIS LACK OF COUNTERPLAY WAS INTENDED TO MAKE HIM SIMILAR TO A RANGED CHAMPION, STILL HE PAYS FOR IT BY GETTING INTO THE ENEMY RANGE

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

Lucian was overtuned, which they are fixing next patch, but i know what they were trying to go for which is give him a defined weakness and highlight some strengths- but as i said, and as Riot admits, they did overtuned him and they are fixing him the next patch~

a melee with a ranged spell cannot kite a ranged champion and the ranged can out damage him if all he is using is his Q, to maximize damage you need to be auto attacking as well, considering yasuo dash cannot be used backwards i dont see how he can kite-

no counter play is poor design and shouldnt be in the game- every champion needs to beat every champion, counter picking should only involve a certain champion is SLIGHTLY stronger than another champion and shouldnt be about auto winning- where as counter play is allowing skill to take place and have anyone beat anyone and this allows for a healthy game- so you saying you only want Lucian nerfed them or do you want gameplay balance? because he is in an imbalanced state right now, and your bronze mind cannot understand how balancing is suppose to work

Knight SoIaire Jul 28, 20141 votes

frozen mallet or red buff not to mention that his q reduces its cast animation with atack speed (with 1 as item you will get max)
also you said that meele with ranged speel wont kite a ranged but usualy yasuos use q more that autoatacks, and you wrote that it will have 600 range (vayne has 550) not to mention that yasuo is among like 6 or maybe 8 champs who have the highest base ms all of this can give him good kiting vs low range adc, moreover 600 is a medicore adc range and that he can cover entire circle with his q+e

"no counter play is poor design and shouldnt be in the game- every champion needs to beat every champion"

full build mf should be able to solo full build zed talon or lb
nautilus should be able to solo a vayne

yasuo fails vs focus and early bullying and it was meant to be like that

also i noticed that most of ppl in this thread either disagrees that yasuo is op or lacks couunterplay or say that your way of "fixing" him is not exactly well thought

i personaly think its both (and you admitted in some post that it might end as a huge buff)
yasuo is meant to counter ranged champions both in lane and in late
thats why you should send your toplaner mid and midder top as midders usualy have some cc to peel themselves

also any meele champ will win with a ranged champ point blank range assuming that its not full ad bruiser vs glasscannon zhonya ap carry or assasin (bruisers arent the masters of burst) will result in victory of meele guy, thats why rangeds usualy stand away from you, yasuo as a counter to rangeds has his e to be sticky

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

easily solution- his Q applies on-hit effects the same as a range basic attack (so the effects are weaker)

Basic attacks animations quicken with attack speed- you dont even know that- his Q is literally suppose to be a range skill shot basic attack- you also cannot kite a ranged champion as a melee champion using a ranged spell- you dont know how the system works at all.... a 6 item miss fortune can solo zed, lb, talon (talon is also severely broken and needs to be addressed soon as well) nautilus can EASILY solo a vayne, vayne does have that outplay dualist mechanic that her kit revolves around so all you have done here is prove my point not sure how it helps your argument... every assassin type will die when focused, actually every champion will die when focused (except Poppy, screw you Poppy)

trust me my way of fixing him is thought out- most people here are bronze and silvers like you- how i know this because i can tell by the way you guys all think...

this post is to try to make yasuo receive balance changes because as things stand right now Yasuo will receives only nerfs in future patches- and because people whine about when someone suggest balance changes you just see these dominant champions only receive nerfs in the future, because lee sin was going to get balance changes to nerf him during certain stages of the game and buff in other stages of the game and it would end up being a net buff to the monk, but instead people whine, bitch and complain and now lee only gets nerfs

lane swaps arent a solution and doesnt fix the problem anyways- i havnt changed how dominant he is, i just opened up the ability for the opponent can counter attack and allow for interesting gameplay to play against yasuo as a player and viewer

Yasuo, with my changes, knocks someone up, ults, and has his e to close the distance and Q being his main damage spell and W is used for defense- same as he currently is- just when laning against him you can now land skill shots with a longer static cooldown on dashes and he cannot use his wall for invincibility but instead to slash projectiles to save his ass the true "nerf" is balancing his double crit chance to match the damage of other champions that build the same build (he does slightly more damage than ranged champions because of the higher base stats melees get)

Knight SoIaire Jul 28, 20141 votes

mf will solo a zed ? dream on (or dont play zed if you answer from your experience) you post here for attention or what cause its not a discussion about ballance ppl try to argument why is your idea bad and all the we get back is you speking literall bulls**t or denying yourself ( there was a post where you inclined that this is not a buf and a post where you say that this might end as a big buff)

either lead a debate or just let this thread die cause you dont bring anything to the table

StaconaJul 29, 20141 votes

you aren't bringing anything, because i keep hearing the same shit from you guys--- regardless- MF is one of the highest damage dealing if not the highest damage dealing marksman in the game and as long as you play it right you will destroy a Zed assuming you guys are equal in gold to a point that MF actually has items since that is how marksman work they scale with their items and then you factor in their kit

Knight SoIaire Jul 29, 20141 votes

zed is a bursty assasin with untargetability mf is an adc with sustained dmg both scale with items zed ults mf throws shurikens shadows after her and hits her till mark detonates or pops away fi he sees himself in danger mf is dead cause her dmg is not a spike and she is made for prolonged engagements where her lack of cooldowns on autos and sustain will shine

you get sht from us cause you give sht and try to back it up with more sht

Full AP VenusaurJul 28, 20141 votes

The only thing that currently frustrates me about Yasuo is the loose definitions of "projectile" and "knock-up".

Wind wall blocks Zac from passing through while e-ing and while ulting

Yasuo can ult off Sejuani's post-charge bump and Ori's ult

These things make no sense and if he was cleaned up a bit he would be much healthier.

Also I agree on wind wall's duration it needs to require better timing to make the most of it.

FyshinaTuxJul 28, 2014

For you comment about windwall, isn't they why they changed so many other champion skills? To make them more "clutch" and revolve around appropriate timing?

deadlychuckJul 28, 20141 votes

I don't think yasuo is OP, but the value he gets for buying crit items does need to be toned down in my opinion. He already has 2 other damage steroids, but getting almost double value for a stat that's easily the most powerful stat in the game is to much.

I already know people are going to claim that it's his only steroid, but it's not, get your head out of your ass. He has a massive armor pen boost on his ult and attack speed counts as CDR for one of his skills which functions as a second auto attack.

StaconaJul 28, 20141 votes

I don't necessarily think he is OP either- but there are still OP elements in his kit like his wall duration being too long and his crit damage being too high for double the crit chance- double crit chance and half the bonus crit damage it will then make him at equal strength with anyone else with the same build- and if the wall is on a lower duration then it will be used like how it is meant to be designed which is slashing high priority projectiles like morg's binding or thresh's death sentence suppose to being invincibility (people already hate kayle's ultimate, and that is an ultimate while the wall is a basic ability) and grant the ye old overpower as all hell summoner spell fortify (thank you riot for removing that spell, not thank you for re adding it in yasuo's kit)- also the ultra low cooldown on yasuo's dash makes it too hard to land skill shots, 0.75 may be too low but would put him in a better spot as far as trying to hit him with skill shots goes- even with a range nerf on his ult it doesnt effect his invidual play--

anyways, i want Yasuo to be better for players to properly have counter play when against him which will allow him not to have to be banned because people can than actually play against him with anyone