Blue trinket rework?

Dromeas·Jul 25, 2014·6 votes·1,199 views

I feel like that the blue trinket needs some more love. The idea that the trinkets counter each other is a very cool idea. But then you realize its like the Pokemon starter system where one Pokemon will be inherently better choice then the others. IE Gen one. Statistically Squirtle is the best choice not because he gets the best stats, but he's is super effective against charmander, while his own weakness, bulbasaur, is weaker.

This is kinda what's happened to the trinket system countering ideal. The red trinket is by far the most powerfull not because it is much better then the others. But there is no way to counter the red trinket. Therefore I think the blue trinket needs a rework.

Make it simply a disposable ward. Make it a placeable untargetable ward that lasts for a short period of time. Scrying Orb: Places an untargetable ward that lasts for 8 10 secs. Range: 1500 Cooldown: 130 Seconds (Reduced to 100 secondss at level 9) Farsight Orb: Places an untargetable ward that lasts for 15 20 secs Range: 3000 Cooldown: 70 Seconds

That would bring up the acting orb in to contention and it would be so usefu. The biggest concern would be it would allow for jungle invades to be much safer so tweaking the time it last may be needed, maybe 8 secs at basic and 15 at upgraded.

21 Comments

SerBlaiseJul 25, 20142 votes

this sounds pretty much the same as how it is on live....except maybe it lasts longer. I'm not seeing the advantage here. Is it that it would be invisible so that the enemy wouldn't know you had vision of them?

DromeasJul 25, 20141 votes

I never considered that being a possibility. Interesting.

The advantage of it would be you would have a ward that could not be destroyed. Imagine Baron fight, you're on purple side. you keep dropping wards, but the enemy has a pink inside the pit. What can you do but just sit there and guesstimate? Or the other way around, what if you're in the baron pit doing baron and you need to know whats going on around, but the enemy team keeps clearing and denying vision?

SOLUTION? Reworked Blue trinket!

The LexerJul 25, 20141 votes

Well, now that you mention it, if the ward lasts 20 seconds it sorta defeats the purpose of having a pink in baron pit

DromeasJul 27, 20141 votes

There is a small clarity i want to make, the times that i placed on are merely conjectural, I have no idea what a balanced time would be. As well the Purpose of the pink ward in the baron pit IMO is to deny continual vision of it. So the other team doesn't know whether you are there or not.

The LexerJul 25, 20142 votes

I think you could reduce it to 5 sec/10 sec. 10/20 seems like a long time and it would be picked up a lot, especially late game. You're on the right track though!!

DromeasJul 25, 20142 votes

Thanks!

I was considering a 5/10 at first as well, but the reason I put 10/20 is because if the view time is not long enough it wouldnt be viable. I compared it to the yellow trinket which gives 60/120 at 120cd and i figured 1/6 of the time for the same cooldown at lvl 1 would be nice.

And the numbers themselves need to be play tested before i can have any more concrete ideas about its viability

vinsJul 25, 20142 votes

item 3342 **UNIQUE Active ** Reveals small location within 2500 / 3500 range for 1 second (120 second cooldown). Enemy champions hit will be revealed for 5 seconds. This does not affect stealth champions.

item 3363 **UNIQUE Active ** Reveals an area up to 4000 units away for 1 second (90 second cooldown.) Enemy champions hit will be revealed for 5 seconds. This does not affect stealth champions. This effect is invisible to enemy champions.

http://i.imgur.com/SuMu5gx.jpg
(lol sorry for the giant image, it's 36x36 but still bigger than others for some reason!) **UNIQUE Active ** Reveals an area up to 3000 units away for 1 second (75 second cooldown.) Enemy champions hit will be revealed for 5 seconds. **Reveals stealth champions. **

This would give some value to the 475g spent to upgrade the trinket. Right now you feel like it just does the same job. The other upgrade makes for a more support-ish version of item 3364

DromeasJul 25, 20141 votes

I think if it revealed stealth it would defeat the purpose of the the item. its not meant as a jack of all trades, but as a i will need vision here for a short period of time, ie dragons, tower pushing, skirmishes.

FiskJul 25, 20142 votes

1 second is so chump. Even if they lowered its CD by 20 seconds @ lvl one and changed it to a 5 second reveal it would be viable

DromeasJul 25, 20141 votes

The actual timer is 2 seconds! =)

And I agree, its not hard to make it viable, the biggest concern is if it has too short of a cooldown at lvl 1 then why bother picking anything else up.

And your suggestion is similar to mine =P

MrBuffingtonJul 25, 20142 votes

#This first paragraph is about Pokemon, if you don't care, skip to the second paragraph :D Squirtle was also strong since (s)he counters Brock early, and by the time you get to Misty you usually have a Pikachu from Viridian Forest. When you get to Lt. Surge you usually have a something that can deal with him, maybe a Diglett or something. Charmander gets countered by both early, and doesn't really get a needed type advantage over other gym leaders (you can usually have a flying type deal with the grass gym, or Kadabra since most grass types are grass/poison). Bulbasaur is actually the strongest in terms of type advantage, but grass types in gen 1 were pretty weak (no good poison moves, and, as mentioned before, you have a lot of weaknesses), not to mention you didn't really need them in a team (a good water type is more valuable imo, they counter many of the same things and have fewer common weaknesses, imo. Gyrados didn't have any physical damaging water moves in that generation, so Blastoise was a stronger choice imo). Sorry, I really like Pokemon :P

Back on topic, I have been seeing more LCS players buy blue trinket, though it's usually very situational and dependent on their champion (Caitlyn and Kog'Maw for their ults). It just doesn't seem like a good item to buy early since there's nothing you need it for (I mean, you can check what buff their jungler started, but you can easily also check this by looking at where the enemy laners came out late/if they're missing mana, or by dropping a ward on their buff early with an early invade). There aren't many situations where two seconds of long range vision will do you much good, at least over a free ward. I might like to see an increased radius or duration (it doesn't have to be an untargetable ward, just increase the duration and it does basically the same thing) and maybe shorten the cooldown early, but I'm not sure how many people would still pick it up.

DromeasJul 25, 20142 votes

Haha I really like pokemon too. Plus im a bit biased as Blastoise is my favourite. The purpose of the item itself i think is the long range that it can be cast at. I originally thought of proposing a longer ward time and shorter cooldowns but i feel like it would need to be play tested, before i would put definitive times on them.

Also lcs players buy blue trinket because they cant afford to facecheck. If you watch lcs, you'll notice that its mainly the adcs that buy it, some times the mid will for the same reason. its not because they need to hit ults, its because getting caught out is WAY more punishing than in Solo Queue.

MrBuffingtonJul 25, 20141 votes

Blastoise was always my favorite too, but lately I've started liking Charizard, and even (gasp) Venasaur.

I also see some mid laners buy it, but usually only if they're playing a long range champ like Xerath or Ziggs, and don't want to blow their ult/get a better chance of hitting their ult (especially Xerath since his has a much smaller AoE). But you're also right that they buy it so they don't have to facecheck baron or something.

PikmintsJul 25, 20141 votes

Hm, my immediate thoughts when reading this suggestion is that while I do like the idea, this removes a clear advantage that the scrying orb has. Placing a ward for a duration means that walls would be able to block the line of sight it provides as well as not being able to see in bushes that it's not directly used on, while the orb currently reveals an area regardless of walls and bushes. This almost seems as though the changes would cause it's pick rate to be even lower. However if the ward dropped could see into bushes as well as through walls for it's sight radius, that'd address this specific issue.

DromeasJul 26, 20141 votes

Hmm okay i guess I need to work on my communication skills =P when I say ward I merely meant to infer that it was a placeable object. What I was imagining was the Scrying/Farsight Orb animation would stay the same, just it would last longer.

But yes that is one advantage that i would not like to see go

IAmNeverViableJul 26, 20141 votes

If this happen wouldn't top lane carry teleport to have a global presence on everywhere. It's like everyone got tf ult

DromeasJul 27, 20141 votes

I think you have a misunderstanding of what untargetable means, but that's okay. Plue the range is way shorter than what it is on the live servers. I believe its at 2000/4000 range whereas TF's ult is 5500 range. Also I'm not really sure what you mean by your statements... they don't exactly line up.

IAmNeverViableJul 27, 20141 votes

oh srry thought the untargetable is meant for the enemy side and the teleport with the ward would be like tf but shorter range and everyone would be xpeke if that happens

deadlychuckJul 26, 20141 votes

I was thinking, with the new jungle timers, what if they gave the blue trinket the ability to give you the timers you wouldn't otherwise have? So you know that the udyr rushed dragon and killed it at some point. You don't know exactly when though. If you were to use the blue trinket on the dragon pit, then it would give you a visual indicator on the spawn, and give you the re-spawn timer

DromeasJul 27, 20141 votes

That's kinda a cool idea, I like the idea with jungle timers, but I'm not exactly sure that is that much of an advantage. I am usually pretty good with guessing timers, its a skill you would have learnt if jungle timers didn't exist. Plus know the exact moment that dragon spawns isn't as important as knowing when the other team is doing drag. But I like that idea.