[Champion Pool Discussion] Should You Always Bring Braum? (Tank Support Discussion)

MrBuffington·Jul 9, 2014·1 votes·241 views

Hey y'all,

So I was a support main in Season 3, back when I was in Silver. This season I was placed in Bronze III, and learned to fill each role adequately in order to pull myself back into Silver. Now that I'm back in Silver, I'm looking to return to my support roots (of course as my team allows), but instead of returning to the squishier utility/poke/sustain supports I used to play a lot, I'm really digging the tanky supports at the moment (Call it the "Braum-Effect")

What I'm asking for is your advice for developing a champion pool around tanky supports. There are about five champions in my pool or on my radar right now, what I'm having trouble with is figuring out when I should be picking them. I'll basically outline my picks with some pro/con analysis, let me know things I missed or got wrong, and also some other champions I should be considering, and when/why to pick them!

Obviously. One of my favorite things about this beautiful mustached man is that you look and feel invincible when playing him. Supposedly he does have a weaker laning phase (which I haven't really noticed), but my impression is that he's a pick for when you have an ADC who can easily proc your passive stacks (ie. Lucian's passive, Caitlyn's range) or an ADC who may need a bit more protection (ie. Kog'Maw).
My personal favorite at the moment, sort of the instigator of this thread. Basically, I don't know when I would pick Braum over Gragas, strange as that seems. I build Gragas almost purely tank (maybe a haunting guise if I need a bit more damage), but what's nice is that he does have much more offensive capability than Braum. Braum is nearly unmatched in his defensive ability, but I find I can soak damage for my AD as Gragas (and heal up with the passive) as well as zone people completely away from minions with Barrel Roll.
Alistar was one of the first champions I got and probably one of the champions I've played the least. The medium-long cooldowns and high mana costs were always difficult for me to manage (especially when you just want to WQ everything). Two things have sparked my recent interest in him though: 1) I'm getting a better understanding of playing disruptive, tanky supports with Gragas and Braum. 2) He's getting some love in an upcoming patch (possibly 4.12). He seems pretty susceptible to poke, but does seem to have some pretty powerful zoning presence, not to mention being freakishly tanky with his ult.
She seems to suffer from many of the same weaknesses as Alistar, but has many of his strengths too (lots of utility, really hard to kill). My main trouble with her is landing ults, which of course can be remedied with practice.
Ah yes, Thresh. Probably the least tanky of the above group, but depending on your build, he can be pretty hard to kill. I do enjoy playing him, and wouldn't say I'm terrible with him, though I feel I've suffered from some poor luck (see my Bad Karma thread)/not being able to have similar game-changing impact with him as I can with Braum/Gragas.

And that's about it from me (trying to keep this post a bit shorter), let me know what you guys think, and your thoughts on champions I didn't mention (ex. , , ?, ?)

TL;DR: Basically, what are situations you would pick certain tanky supports (ones I mentioned and otherwise) and why?

Thanks for reading!

16 Comments

MrSc0ttyJul 15, 20142 votes

Braum: awesome all around, but shines best vs team comps that contain projectile ult reliant champs, or melee ranged sustained damage he can puppy dog off with his passive and slow. Very much peel focused, he brings one good engage. Easy to pick up, always awesome. He suffers vs heavy poke and disengage like Morgana, Sona, and Nami, so have a few alternatives for that.

Gragas: a dive engager very akin to Leona. I wouldn't play both of them, as the differences are quite slight. He favors skirmishes a bit more than Leona's pure Yolomode fight-and-kill-or-die style, but his engage pattern of gapclose+brief stun+damage+tank with a nice big WHOOMP THERE IT IS ulti makes his style very very similar. I'd say play one or the other pick whichever you prefer.

Leona: see above. For those games where you just need the hardest engage possible. I like picking Leona into teams where my jungler and top lack hard engage and we need someone to get in and disrupt the teamfight. The biggest issue people have with Leona is not knowing how to get in, deal your damage and get out instead of hunting after one more of her weak autos-if you deal a chunk to the enemy duo and get off unscathed, you've done your job. Suffers hard against people who can punish her engages (thresh) or heal off the damage (Sona).

Taric: TARIC IS SOOO BAD! Is usually what people say these days, and they're wrong. He just has a very very specific niche and if you don't play to that niche, he's boned. Taric is not a champ you main. He's a very simple champ you learn and have ready for when he's needed. He's the only tank support who shines against sustain laners like Soraka and Sona, and he's got that sweet mix of peel, engage and reliability that others lack-provided you only want to stun one guy. And that's the catch, he's totally single target and 90% of his power is that dazzle. So you pick him into comps where he can either set up that sweet pick for a high burst teammate, or where he can lock down that Zed, Fizz, whoever when they dive in solo and squishy and just take them out of the fight. Learn Taric. It's easy. Learn where he shines and hell dazzle you and your enemies.

Thresh: Sona, Morgana, Braum. Those are the three champs you don't want to pick thresh into. Other than that, go nuts. Thresh is always good and scales hard with skill level. If you're looking for a champ to be your mainstay, odds are you wanna play thresh.

MrBuffingtonJul 15, 20141 votes

There are no words to describe how much I like this comment.

I'm probably more on the Gragas side of the Gragas-Leona split (I used to main Gragas mid, his mechanics are something I enjoy/am comfortable with). My pool right now is Gragas, Thresh, and sort of Braum (just got him, still getting used to shielding the right way, lol). I'm assuming vs Morgana, Gragas would be the best pick? Or is there another that is better pick (beyond tanky supports if necessary, Morgana is so popular and so annoying...)? I've had some success vs Morgana as Gragas, typically since I have some poke/zoning and self-sustain, and can do enough magic damage to break through the shield and still have some CC left over, but it did feel like a sub-optimal pick.

I feel like Taric just doesn't have the impact of other champions, perhaps you're right and I just don't know his niche, or that I feel I can cover his niche well enough with other picks (relic shield can offer okay sustain for your AD, nothing like an actual sustain support but can be enough vs something like Morgana, Annie, or Zyra who don't have any sustain for their laning partner).

Thanks again!

MrSc0ttyJul 16, 20142 votes

Vs Morgana I would take Nami , Sona, Lulu or Karma. The speed boost game is the way to play it

If you must play a tank, Gragas is for sure the best option-particularly because Gragas ult vs a black shielded duo breaks the shield on one champion, and knocks the other away effectively separating them from the pack. You can either knock the unshielded one towards you to focus them down, or single out the shielded one by sweeping everyone else away.

Taric is just all about removing one enemy from the fight. Take him against a diving assassin like Zed or Fizz to delete them from the teamfight, or against a squishy ranged support like Sona who you can engage on with dazzle then heal off harass.

MrBuffingtonJul 16, 20141 votes

Alright, thanks! I may try Karma or Sona out for a game or two vs Morg, thanks again for your help!

WorgslargJul 9, 20141 votes

Cho'gath is one that I like, especially against someone like ezreal, where his silence can be game making.

He also has great synergy with yasuo.

I prefer leona to most of the above because of how easily she can hand the lane to an adc if she gets a zenith blade hit at level 2-3

MrBuffingtonJul 9, 20141 votes

Cho'gath seems to be one of those champions that no one plays, but when someone does, they're really freaking good at him. I like that his ult lets him get super tanky even without gold. He's a champion I might want to try out again at some point, I'm just worried since I don't know his weaknesses, I won't know how to play him correctly.

I agree, a good Leona can be completely overwhelming in lane. Same problem with Cho'gath though, I don't know when to play her.

Thanks for the response!

Sneak DogJul 9, 20141 votes

Beware with Cho though, he might very well be the only champion with negative snowballing built into his kit with the ult stack loss on death. Once he gets bursted, he won't recover. Great champion nevertheless.

MrBuffingtonJul 10, 20141 votes

Thing is, Cho is pretty hard to burst, lol. If he does get bursted in a team fight, the other team pretty much used all their damage to do it, which is typically a won teamfight. That being said, I'm probably not going to play Cho (personal preference), but it's possible to recover somewhat on Cho (difficult, but possible).

Angry MonsterJul 9, 20141 votes

Agaist all AD comps taric might be the best around, with him sharing AR with the team and hit ult is a damage boost.

Malphite can be fun if you learn how to support with him. I had a 2 month period where i was only supporting as him in g2. He can be poked out but if you can get on top of the enemy you can mess them up with all your debuffs.(morg just ruins your day though)

MrBuffingtonJul 9, 20141 votes

Taric seems sort of strange for me, since to make the most use of his aura, you sort of want to be in the middle of your team, where if you're a tank, you more want to be in the front line. Braum can easily make it to the front line with Stand Behind Me, and stay in the middle of a team to protect his carries, where Taric always seems more like he's wandering around without clear objectives or threat. Moreover, extra resistances don't do too much for a person if they don't have the HP to back it up, and I find tankier champions that do have HP already have decent resistances. Maybe it's just that I personally don't want to play Taric, but I can't see reasons for picking him over someone like Braum or Leona.

I've played a bit of Malphite support, his range is a bit lackluster though and he doesn't get any hard CC until lvl 6. Not to mention his Q costs a lot of mana. I'm not sure I would pick him over Alistar, who basically has Malphite ult at lvl 2-3 (not quite since Headbutt is targeted, but almost the same), not to mention doesn't feel as vulnerable early game.

Thanks for the response!

Angry MonsterJul 9, 20141 votes

mslphite has that aoe slow. really good for getting a lot AS gone from targets.

The reason why this is better than just knocking people around is that when u head but with Ali people might just get away or terrain may be an issue. Ali's combo is unreliable at best and some times you can just goof it and make the engage worthless. Also when you use your combo you now have no cc for 6+ sec. This makes Ali a sad cow compared to Malphite who just uses his ult and then can AS and move slow different targets.

All that said I do play Ali. I just think they both bring different things to the fight.

MrBuffingtonJul 10, 20141 votes

I've seen Aphromoo do things like flash Q so he can save headbutt for another target. Either way, like you said, they bring different things to a fight, Malphite has more reliable engagement, but Alistar brings a lot of lower cooldown CC, which helps in a longer, more prolonged fight. If Malphite misses his ult, fight is pretty much over, where Alistar can still disrupt the enemy team, especially if he alternates using his CC.

Dragon Fang ShotJul 9, 20141 votes

I think Taric is a solid support, but his ultimate is pretty much worthless. The aura radius is small (500 units, which is near the lowest end of ranged autoattacks) and the stat boosts are meager (15/25/35 AD and AP). Besides that, the only downsides are his early game mana costs, especially on his heal, and armor is more effective than MR on him because of his armor scaling.

MrBuffingtonJul 9, 20141 votes

I didn't even know Taric had an ult (kidding). I'm curious if Taric may get a bit of a rework soon; reason being he has a targeted stun, which Riot has mentioned (with respect to Sion, not Taric, but still applies I think) doesn't provide much rewarding gameplay. I personally don't really see what Taric can do that Leona can't do better (besides the heal, which does, as you said, cost tons of mana and also seems to fall off more as the game progresses, since he doesn't build that much AP). I don't really see why someone would play Taric over another support/what situations you would play Taric over another support.

Thanks for the response!

Dragon Fang ShotJul 9, 20142 votes

I would usually only play Taric if my team absolutely needed a pure tank. He works best full tank, especially against an AD heavy team.

MrBuffingtonJul 9, 20141 votes

I guess therein lies the issue, since I personally feel like Braum and Alistar are just as tanky if not tankier. The full AD team is a good point to consider, thanks for your response!