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A very Twisted Fate: a discussion about Twisted Fate and his current state in the game.

Jingerbeardman·7/27/2014, 1:08:03 AM·4 votes·1,802 views

I am here to attempt to open a discussion about Twisted Fate and his under/overwhelming state within the game. As a champion he is about teamwork more than most others in the roster. His ult is about setting up and making plays in unexpected ways. There isn't anything wrong with this thematic direction but it does create a troublesome job of balancing him so that he doesn't become the most overpowered champion in the early game.

What bothers me most about twisted fate is his extremely deceiving skill floor and incredibly high skill cap. At first glance TF looks pretty straight forward in terms of what he can and is designed to do. Once in game though that can change rather quickly as his low move speed, low base health, and short attack range paint a very different picture.

Lane phase is where Twisted Fate Shines his brightest by being able to hop around to nearby areas of the map and revealing all of the enemy team by using his ult. He can set up some out of nowhere plays that help snowball his teammates into the lead when successful or at least provide some good pressure to try and help your allies recover. Once lane phase is over though Twisted Fate's presence begins to dwindle quite quickly. The reason being that after level 13 he scales very poorly.

Stacked deck is the culprit for this drop off. As a spell it works well during lane phase but becomes incredibly inconsistent as the game moves into skirmishes and teamfights. That is because Twisted Fate's attack range and subsequent lack of mobility work against him when it comes to auto attacking targets in order to fully utilize his kit. He has to get pretty close to targets he would least like to be near.

I am asking the Twisted fate players out there as to whether or not this is an accurate assessment. I have seen my share of TF players be extremely successful as well as to many falling flat on their face. I am typically one that falls on my face... Would a change to stacked deck and how it functioned be something people would be interested in if it could be implemented effectively? Stacked deck is the most opportune place to make changes without affecting TF's core identity.

I have an iteration I have come up with that I want to add as well. It is a bit long winded since I am including my thought process on how I came to my iteration so if you want the TL/DR you can find it at the bottom.

Stacked decks identity

  • Every fourth attack deals additional magic damage that scales with ability power
  • increases attack speed passively

My goal

  • Figure out a way to make stacked deck more reliable and readily available in team fights and skirmishes in the mid and late game without offsetting its early game power.

My idea Rather than require four auto attacks for it to empower your next auto attack, I suggest put it on an automatic activation timer. To draw an example from other existing champions, have it function similar to how Shen's and Nocturne's passive work. After a certain period of time from its last activation it becomes available to be used again and auto attacks while it is on cooldown reduce the down time.

My thought process There is a hiccup with how this ultimately functions and it isn't attack speed, it is cool down reduction. Being one of Twisted Fates 3 regular abilities that he can choose to rank it would be subject to CDR unlike passives. At first I thought to have the ability not be affected by cool down reduction but I quickly realized that would mess with the clarity of CDR and that is against RIOT's design fundamentals. If it is subject to CDR, having each auto attack reduce the down time by a flat amount would make stacked deck be potentially available on every other attack and that would really throw Twisted Fate outa balance.

Since my goal is to port the current values into a new and functioning system while preserving the identity of the ability I had run into a brick wall. That was until today. After having a Twisted fate on my team in one of my matches today the iteration came to my mind again. Remembering why it ultimately wouldn't work from previous brainstorming I simply put it to the back of my mind and continued playing. After the match I thought on it for a bit and went over the reasons I felt it wouldn't work again. The first and second reasons are stated above, the third is that having CDR also reduce the amount of time each auto attack removed from the downtime is not an option since that would make it feel like obtaining CDR was having both a positive and negative effect when it should only have a positive one.

Then I realized that my third reason was in fact my solution and I was just using the wrong variables. Instead of each attack reducing a set value of the downtime it instead would reduce a set percentage of the maximum downtime. That way obtaining CDR could effectively reduce the downtime without visibly negative side effects.

(EDIT 7/27 removed the passive attack speed bonus, after further discussion I consider it to not be necessary any longer) The Iteration (TL/DR) Stacked Deck Every 10 seconds, Twisted Fate's next attack deals an additional 55/80/105/130/155 (+50% Ability Power) magic damage. Auto attacks reduce the downtime by 30% of the max cooldown. the exact numbers would take actual testing so these are just obvious fill in to better flesh it out

The Balance This ultimately affects Twisted Fate and his balance of power but I don't think it would be enough to really put him over the top. What it does do is make stacked deck scale better into the late game. Provides a different potential play pattern that allows TF to engage and disengage in team fights while still utilizing his entire kit. It also helps reduce both the skill floor and skill cap enough that it makes TF a bit more fun and successful for players just picking him up while at the same time not being to powerful for pro players who know him in and out.

23 Comments

Serpents Embrace7/27/2014, 9:06:13 AM3 votes

Would giving it the same treatment as Pantheon's passive help?

It gains a charge every spell or attack and then augments the next attack as usual. This would let him use Q, W and R to stack it in team fights without relying solely on his base attack range.

Sire Hippington7/27/2014, 1:36:44 AM2 votes

it would lower his skill floor a bit and help in standoffs, but it won't help with the core problem: the insane potential of his ult+goldcart, makeing any buff, how small it will be, a dangerous change.

I personaly would like to see his stuncard getting removed, as it would free up so incredible much power to make his kit as a whole feel better, but the stun probably is core to his indentity for most players...

Nalitus7/27/2014, 1:28:05 AM1 votes

I don't know how much that would solve the problem, given that due to TF's short range he is often using a red or gold card to help peel. I would say that his kit needs some reworking since there is obvious synergy between his W and E, while his Q is a random wave clear ability. I think that your version of stacked deck would work well if they somehow changed his Q by giving him more incentive to auto. If I were approaching TF from Riot perspective of weaknesses, I would say that his Q has a lack of counterplay that does not fit with the importance of positioning stressed by his E and R. Your thoughts?

Flying Buntcake7/27/2014, 1:28:43 AM1 votes

Sounds good. Make his e more useful when not in aa range to anything, very nice.

Knight SoIaire 7/27/2014, 2:14:57 AM1 votes

tf needs a lot of work

  1. he is squishy mage with insanely low range on his core dmg 2)his ult loses most of its use in mid/late game 3)his pick a card is a wery nice skill but it doesnt work as intended, you should pick beetwen 3 tools based on situation but in practice its more like, spam blue to lasthit or damage towers, gold is for anthing serious, red one is a punishment for not being good at picking cards, or a medicore farming tool cause his q does it just better, still 90% of time you want gold card which is just plainly better (let me say why i think so, you may pick betwen, damage with stun, damage with aoe, damage with mana regen, damage with stun is just beter cause single targets usualy carry the damage in enemy team ) 4)as a close range mage he is immobile meanign that the entire mobility creep that actualy exists has a whole lot of advantages over such type of a champ (he splitpushes, mobile champs will get there in time. he tries to fight, mobile champs will kill him faster) 5)he just lacks tools
Old Man Teeto7/29/2014, 1:46:42 AM1 votes

Twisted Fate scales actually very strongly into team fights.

His single target damage, CC, guaranteed vision (No brush juking or surprise flank), AoE, and Poke.

On top of that he has a top notch Pick potential at all stages, split pushing power late game with Pick a Card and Lichbane (3rd or 4th item)

He might not kill an entire team in one combo, but if you keep good positioning, TF is one of the strongest mid laners outside the laning phase.

TF is one of the mid laners that tweaks shift him from Niche to pick/ban. He's balanced because of his poor laning, but he still sees play. Champions shouldn't be playable in every game regardless of match up or team compositions. People who want a champion to be good at everything are the abominations that spawned Lee, Yasuo, Elise, Caitlyn, Lucian, etc.