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@Riot, regarding Athene's Unholy Grail in 4.10

Canastus·6/18/2014, 12:41:06 AM·15 votes·3,084 views

Why did you go so far to nerf this item into the ground? Couldn't you have simply increased the overall build-cost?

Did you ever consider the consequences for mana-hungry champions like Cassiopeia who entirely depend on mana-regeneration and what this kind of change means to them? You even went as far to cut down the magic resistence, can you imagine how this cripples any squishy midlaner?

You're badly hurting traditional mages who already lack any mobility and thus heavily rely on a constant use of their abilities to zone their opponents or just to keep up with farming.

If you're seriously worried about champions like Nidalee who seem to exploit this item for constant harassment at zero risk, you should restrict your dislike to said champions without destroying an item which is being used by far lesser 'evils'.

I haven't seen any compensation for champions (besides Galio) who consider it as a core-item in ther build, how are you going to deal with this issue? Are you simply going to tell them to build a Tear of the Goddess? What use is Athene's Unholy Grail even anymore if it fails to fullfill its role as the the number one mana-regeneration item?

29 Comments

PetMyRhino6/18/2014, 1:01:44 AM6 votes

I agree with you on this one. we need to bump this so that riot can see!

RiotPhreak6/19/2014, 12:00:11 AM6 votes

To address your points:

The item was definitely overpowered. It was bought in 90% of games. That's pretty crazy. Itemization is supposed to be a choice. Keep in mind, this is an item bought BY mages, and works AGAINST mages. So it's not like the MR reduction nerfed the mage class, it just made the mage vs mage matchup a bit squishier, or incentivized other item purchases. It doesn't shift class balance anywhere. It's not like Zed is now

As far as the mana regen nerfs: It was not nerfed by 33%. It literally couldn't be. Most of the mana regen on the item actually came from the Unique Passive. So instead of contributing 15-30 mp5 plus up to double your mp5, it contributes 10-20 mp5 plus up to double your base mp5. Additionally, it provides even further mana restore on kill or assist.

What this means is that the item does two things:

It is still the number one mana regeneration item. Don't be silly. The unique passive basically guarantees that. It doesn't also need to be the best AP/CDR and defensive item too.
It works better alongside other mana itemization, because if you buy flat mana (Archangels, RoA) it will restore more on Kill/Assist, or continues to multiply your other sources of regen (Morellonomicon, Archangel's, etc.)

JackYAqua6/18/2014, 11:56:32 PM5 votes

Traditional mages are supposed to be squishy.
There's still Morellonomicon left.
The mana restore on kills/ assist was buffed -> Cassiopeia is a killer (no nerf).
- Most mages have many AOE spells -> a lot of assists.
Mages have to learn to use their mana efficiently if they want to be 'good' at being a mage.
The item is still massively cost efficient.
Why is building Tear of the Goddess bad?
The 'core' mana regeneration aspect of the item is the Mana Font passive -> the item still fulfills its role as the main mana regeneration item.

A Bad Nasus6/18/2014, 2:43:42 PM2 votes

Remove's silence from leblanc's q, guts a core mr item for several mages seems legit.

Penguin Eclipse6/18/2014, 10:40:42 PM2 votes

I agree with what you are said. However, I personally am more concerned about the lack of viable options beyond the Grail. Pretty much everything has revolved/been-balanced around it.

The tear items do not give CDR and no defensive stats outside of the active which most champions suffer to charge. Therefore not a very viable choice for a lot of champions without significant itemization changes.

Morellonomicon was nerfed (somehow Riot thinks 5 AP is better than 2 MP/5). So it is even more mana constrained than before.

And Rod of Ages is... well Rod of Ages. Not a good choice on a lot of champions.

UniversalParagon6/18/2014, 3:12:36 AM2 votes

I would have to agree with this as well. Athene's Unholy Grail is a big item in the laning phase for mages, and with the MR reduction, any AP opponents are now a problem since Athene's is usually the only MR item that some mages will ever purchase in a match.

Silverclaw6/18/2014, 2:26:14 AM2 votes

Rod of Ages has never been a bad item (tanky stats & extra mana/AP), and tear isn't as bad as most people make it out to be anyways - besides, the item wasn't gutted, it's just not the be-all-end-all for mana regen anymore.

Hellioning6/19/2014, 1:03:44 AM2 votes

I feel Athene's needs some more changes, such as removing the MR or completely removing the item at all. It's a really ridiculous item. It has everything that mages want in decent amounts (it's one of the few remaining 20% cdr items) which means it's basically guaranteed to be bought in every game. It completely removes mana from the equation, removing a good part of learning to be a good player and instead replacing it with 'sure, use your poke spell on cd, not like it's gonna hurt you if you miss.'

Now, if only we can see the same changes with Hydra and BORK...

I neeeeeeeeed it6/19/2014, 2:31:34 AM1 votes

Why did you go so far to nerf this item into the ground?

lol "into the ground"

consequences for mana-hungry champions like Cassiopeia who entirely depend on mana-regeneration and what this kind of change means to them?

manage your mana better, weak champions can be buffed, Athene's still gives a shitton of mana

You're badly hurting traditional mages who already lack any mobility and thus heavily rely on a constant use of their abilities to zone their opponents or just to keep up with farming.

Mobility creep is another problem entirely

etc. etc.

matrinox6/19/2014, 9:37:30 AM1 votes

When LeBlanc builds it first item, you know it's imba.