@Riot We the community would like an official response on Curse Voice.

Poptart Evelynn·Mar 13, 2014·12 votes·1,654 views

Simple question. Asking for a simple response. A lot of people are all wondering the same thing. The program is a simple add-on giving easily readable info that is already there.

Is it okay to use Curse Voice? http://beta.cursevoice.com/

Exactly what it does.

Dragon/Baron timers - Only if they are time stamped by the client.(Meaning you have to have sight on them to gain the time)
Timers on Ally Ultimates - Information that could be questionable by most but is something that can be obtained through chat/voice chat.
A quick way to join group calls with the simple ease of a link - Another questionable feature but in my opinion there are several programs that are also easy to do the same.

The communities approach to this seems to be hostile on both sides. I for one am okay with such a program for it allows teammates to make less miscommunication mistakes in a team game. Others feel that the timers are unfair(I really don't understand this argument honestly but they feel it's unfair) and knowing exactly when your ally Ultimates are up could give an edge in ranked(This I can see from both sides why it could be unfair but it's something that can be obtained with a simple chat in the box).

So we the community would like you to make a standpoint on this. We need a full, it's either A Allowed or B Against the rules, and should not be supported.

@Morello

22 Comments

melekMar 13, 20148 votes

If the Curse client is automating anything for the player, it is probably considered an illegal advantage. Here is a helpful reddit thread on the subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1t8ubc/addons_on_lol_legal_or_illegal/

My own rule is that in general, if it makes the game easier to play and constitutes an advantage over other players, I think its against the spirit of playing on the same field as every other summoner. Thats just my opinion.

ShinjusukeMar 13, 20145 votes

^ This.

To be honest, I don't really approve of lolking'ing opponents either. The common argument is "well it doesn't do anything by itself so it's fair" or "everyone can do it".

If it were intended to be a part of the competitive game, it'd be a part of it. If two competitive chess players were in a match, and one kept up a reference page of every one of the other's preferred plays and move sequences just because it wasn't explicitly in the rules he couldn't, most people with what I can only call an "honorable competitive spirit" would think that was low/unfair/wrong/whatever-you-wanna-call-it.

Same as League. I know as a jungle main I put a lot of work into keeping track of a bunch of respawn timers and keeping track of my allies' abilities. It's a part of the game, you are intended to learn it, and the information is there for you to do so.

The logic of "well everyone can use it" or "well it doesn't help you in ways you can't do manually" is the exact same logic that can be used to justify an aim-bot in a shooter. It's unsportsmanlike, it's lazy, and it's against the spirit of the game. If you don't want to learn how a game works or play it as designed, that's perfectly fine, but maybe that game isn't for you, and you should consider that before taking an advantage just out of either laziness or inability.

If Riot added timer announcements to the game,

1) Then it'd be totally okay, because it's a designed part of the game now, and

2) Think about how different the game would be. If you can't see the multitude of differences it'd cause in early jungle encounters and lategame teamfights alone, you probably shouldn't be speaking on this topic until you know more about the game. If you can, however, you can see there is an arguably significant difference in how phases of the game play out.

The fact that the effects of cursevoice are not in the game or acknowledged as being in production by Riot indicate they are not intended or wanted in the game. This would, of course, totally change if at some point Riot were to announce their own personal cursevoice-like system into the game, or even announce one was in progress. As it stands, it's an unfair advantage used only by people either too lazy to learn or with too little respect for the game's creative integrity to go without it.

djumpMar 13, 20142 votes

Curse voice is directly a violation of riot's code of conduct.

I did some reading from melek's link and hes right: it comes down to an issue of automation. More specifically, if the third party program intercepts game communication with riot, or reads memory used to store game info on your computer, it's illegal. See the following excerpt from the riot code of conduct in a list of punishable offenses:

J. Using any unauthorized third party programs, including but not limited to "mods," "hacks," "cheats," "scripts," "bots," "trainers," and automation programs, that interact with the Software in any way, for any purpose, including, without limitation, any unauthorized third party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between the Software and Riot Games and any unauthorized third party programs that collect information about the Game by reading areas of memory used by the Software to store information;

So the fact that cursevoice reads game data to find out when camps are cleared or ults are used is a clear and direct violation of the code of conduct and listed as "behavior that warrants disciplinary action".

What WOULD be legal is a third party program that had an overlay where you could manually click a button to indicate when a camp is cleared or a team-mate ult is used then it would keep a timer. As long as it does not read game data, or "interact with game software in any way" but solely takes user input, it's legal.

My personal opinion is that I'm not opposed to things that track timers for you, and I would honestly love an automated one like curse voice. But it's clearly against the rules. Especially the ult timers. I mean, you can watch and keep track of buff and dragon timers on your own well enough, but noticing right when all your team-mates ults are used every time? Or getting random teammates that will always consistently tell you when their ult is up again every time? and actually keeping track of all of that in your head? That sounds like a pretty tall order. I dont' think anyone would argue the average league player is capable of that.

As an alternate, if I could find a legal program like I described (a program that made an overlay where you can manually click to start a timer for buffs and such) I would TOTALLY use it. You can find apps like that for a smartphone and have that sitting by your keyboard, but I'd love it if i could do that on the computer itself.

TheRealCoxinatorMar 13, 20141 votes

[deleted]

MackleDogeMar 13, 20141 votes

If a program isn't explicitly authorized, then it's unauthorized. Pretty much standard procedure for ToS, computer programs, and the information technology field in general. Unless Riot specifically states officially that Curse Voice is an accepted and allowed third party program it is qualified as unauthorized for legal purposes. Which is why we really need to get some sort of statement on this from Riot, because it's pretty important for the community and it confers an unfair advantage in the game to those with it over those that don't possess it.

My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be allowed. Knowing the timers and spawn timers of camps and objectives is part of the game, as is having the presence of mind and coordination to keep track of them. It's one of the many abilities that separates good players from great players, similar to mechanics, map awareness, and macro/micro actions in and around teamfights.

TheRealCoxinatorMar 13, 20141 votes

The only reason that I would be against this is that this would completely change the play for new players if they got this, and if it would increase the minimum specs for a computer since I know a lot of people who's computer already has some FPS issues but can still play relatively well. Also there may be a way for someone to go into the coding and modify it to show enemy timers and camps even without vision. I have the client but the beta part for my account is unavailable so I can't be too sure if that is possible, just a theory.

MackleDogeMar 13, 20141 votes

My issue is that it isn't readily available for everyone. If Riot authorizes this program, they need to make it universally applicable to all relevant OS and free for all players. It's an extremely bad idea to authorize this program, but then require you to get a beta key or buy it to use it.

TheRealCoxinatorMar 13, 20141 votes

Which is what happened to me. I can log in to the launcher for curse voice but I 'need' to notify them that I am a "family or friend of a curse employee" in order to use it. But I just checked and now it says to apply.. >.>

IMTOOJUICYMar 14, 20143 votes

As long as the app is restricted to those timers, I think it would be all right. After all, real sports like basketball have shot clocks and game clocks to help players keep track of their timers.

ValentenMar 17, 20142 votes

I think a lot of people forget that curse voice was developed by using the API that RIOT released for 3rd party devs to develope things. There is a reason Riot has a group that works with these developers to determine if it is going to be allowed or not.

As for my feelings on the subject is it doesnt do anything that you couldnt do before it just does it for you so you can focus on the game instead of worrying about keeping track of timers. It doesnt start timers on baron or dragon unless you hard vision/were there. Teammates ults you already knew if they were up or on cd if you payed attention to the little green dot next to their portrait. All this is doing is streamlining things so you can get it all in a quick glance.

I do understand the side that is against it as well. It does stuff automatically which can be considered a small advantage. The only thing is, is it doesnt give you the info unless you have vision of it. Thats the big difference between programs that give you a big advantage with info that you shouldnt have. This doesnt do that so I personally dont see the issue.

TuckerrMar 17, 20142 votes

About a year and a half ago, someone released a program that you could use to time buffs, mostly by pressing f5 and manually starting it.

I had no problem with it then, and I have no problem with this now. The only things these programs do is teach you until you don't need them anymore. Baron is 7 minutes, dragon is 6, and normal buffs are 5. The argument that having something to help you remember that is cheating is exactly like saying that remembering those timers alone is cheating as well.

Someone mentioned they "don't approve" of using things like Lolking and LoLnexus, because it "invalidates the spirit of being on equal ground," or something, which seems like complete nonsense to me. This is a game about information. If you don't know which matchups are good, or how to play your champion, you're going to lose fairly often. Does that mean that using a build guide, watching a stream, or looking at a list of counters for specific champions is cheating? Of course not.

None of the information presented by this is something that you can't get just by being aware of what's going on the game, and honestly, if you think it's such a huge advantage, then you more than likely need to improve your play, and can probably make good use of the tool. Buff timers, dragon timers, and the timers of teammates ults are all things you can learn yourself, and all this is, is a crutch. It's not going to offer any advantage over decent players, and as a platinum player, I have no issue with it whatsoever.

Edit: If, as some have said, it is using scripts that are against the rules, in order to see enemy ultimates, then I do have a problem with it, but I still don't think the idea of a timer for buffs and dragon is cheating, or even against the spirit of the rules. It's just a crutch to do what other people do in chat or in their head.

MackleDogeMar 18, 20141 votes

People being able to pay attention and time in chat or in their head is a skill that can differentiate between good players and great players. That differentiation should exist, people shouldn't be rewarded for being lazy and not bothering to do things themselves, its a bad precedent to allow programs like these in League and in gaming in general. Saying these are okay because they could do it anyways is like saying that aimbots are okay in FPS games because technically they can aim anyways if they wanted to.

XrispiesApr 25, 20141 votes

This isn't the first time I've seen the aimbot analogy, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. An aimbot impacts the actual play of the game, not the information used to make decisions. I don't actually see a reason against use of this program in your comment. I haven't decided how I feel yet (other than that anything violating Riot's TOS should not be used), I just think your argument might be a little overzealous at this point.

MackleDogeApr 25, 20141 votes

What's overzealous are all these people thinking third party applications will be the best thing to hit league since they took out dodge as a stat. Regardless of whether or not you agree with my analogy or think it's inaccurate doesn't change the privacy or security risk that third party installations in online games can present to all users.

And for the record, not having to keep track of information you normally would have to because a program is doing it for you, does impact the actual game play.

TuckerrMay 17, 20141 votes

I disagree wholeheartedly. First on the idea that anyone thought removing dodge was a great idea at the time, and secondly, the fact that there are potential security risks is irrelevant. It's up to the players to make responsible choices about the security of their accounts just like it is for literally everything else.

Not to mention the fact that Curse as a company has a stake in making sure that their programs aren't a security risk.

And for the record, you still have to have vision on dragon or baron. The program still teaches you the timers so that you can eventually not rely on them. And honestly, having the timer doesn't mean you're going to get dragon, or that the enemy team won't contest. If you're in a low enough league where nobody knows the timer, people aren't going to pay attention when you point it out, and if you're at a point where it would make a difference, other people are going to also know about it.

MackleDogeMay 17, 20141 votes

First, user's are only responsible for their personal security on their own devices. If you are using online banking and the bank gets hacked, that isn't the your fault, that is the banks fault. It's the exact same thing, if Riot allows a third party application and it compromises the game and provides a security and privacy risk to the users, that is Riot's issue and fault not the consumer. You can keep making these arguments over and over again, but you're still going to be wrong time after time.

Lady LuckMar 13, 20141 votes

Quick question...

I had seen somebody else say that it keeps track of enemy ults as well as allies. Looking at their site it says "Keep track of champion ultimate cooldowns and know when they're ready." which is unspecific.

Is it just allies or enemies as well?

While either way I don't like it - if it's enemies and allies I cannot see any reason people would think it's not against the spirit of the rules (if not explicitly the rules). This information cannot easily be gathered in game. Even if somebody knows the time of every ult they still have to factor in CDR including whether they had blue buff. There'd basically be no way, without a third party, to know for sure when every enemy's ult is up. Allies you can just ask or pay attention to the green dot.

Poptart EvelynnMar 13, 20142 votes

It is just allies, I've seen a few videos on it.

ValentenMar 17, 20142 votes

Its only allied champions. As it stand now you know when your teams ults are up if you look at their portrait and see the green dot. Plus most people should be telling their team when their ult is almost up. I know I tell my team how long till my ult is up since it gives my team more info.

TheRealCoxinatorMar 14, 20141 votes

Is it me or are the comments messed up?

AuteyusApr 25, 20141 votes

If solo q is going to be filled with this, can Riot please say something either way to reduce my rage.

Nerf Ao ShinApr 26, 20141 votes

So many people in ranked using 3rd party programs now. Which creates an interesting situation in ranked games.

Either you play fair by just using the client and you let the cheaters put you at a disadvantage, or you level the field by cheating yourself, or you tilt the field in your favor by cheating even better.

This is League now. Its not about who has more skill, its about who has the better 3rd party programs.

Welcome to the new league of legends.