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Why champions aren't played.

Layek·7/19/2014, 4:06:55 AM·1 votes·979 views

I am fairly new to the game, and (obviously) don't know as much as a high Elo player would. I started playing in November 2013. I made a account, leveled to 30 and the day I hit level 30 I played ranked. I was placed in Bronze 3, And quickly fell to bronze 5. So i figured it better to just make a new account (This one) and was placed in silver 3, Where I currently stand. I am trying to understand the game better and am actively trying to improve on my game play and knowledge of the game. I play mainly champions that aren't considered Incredible (Aside form when I played leblanc before her nerf) but are still viable, Such as Katarina, Ahri, Fizz, Orianna, And Yasuo (All except Fizz are Tier 1). Which brings me to my question, why are certain champions not considered Good or even viable? For example, When I looked at poppy. She has great damage, shes naturally tanky, and does well enough in lane to do well (With my experience at least). Without reading a really random forum comment I would have never realized that her problem is her extremely un-realistic Mana problems.

So what exactly is the problem with champions like: Olaf Urgot Cho'Gath Kennen Udyr (I think Udyrs problem is that he is prone to kiting, but I'm not sure). Tryndamere Nunu Fiora Heimerdinger Xerath Victor Sion Talon Gangplank Teemo Karma Master YI (Lower Elo's consider Him Extreamly Over powered, And High Elo's Consider Him extreamly weak and easily countered. I honestly have no idea why). Darius Zilean

I realize not all of these champions are considered extremely Bad/troll picks, And some are only considered bad in higher Elo's, But most people agree these champions are simply not as good as most other champions, And I'm curious as to why. Thanks guys.

25 Comments

Linna Excel7/19/2014, 3:52:56 PM2 votes

Master YI (Lower Elo's consider Him Extreamly Over powered, And High Elo's Consider Him extreamly weak and easily countered. I honestly have no idea why).

Hi elo understands something called CC.

Rukimedes Shodai7/19/2014, 5:03:06 AM1 votes

A lot of these are basically not played because there are champions that can do their job better.

Chogath kit is very outdated - the functions of his kit is very strong the problem is cast times, animation times, and how predictable he is and the fact that he will probably get kited endlessly and have his skills dodged because of how mobile champions are nowadays.

Urgot was a very fun champion that I used to play back in Season 1 and 2, he's not like a typical ADC and in the time that he was popluar and played he received a lot of nerfs bringing him down and to where he is now.

I won't list all the champions but as for the rest most are champions that are easily outclassed by someone in their respective role that does their job better. Some of the champions you listed are pretty solo queue oriented and are played often(if you'd compare to Urgot).

A lot of the champions on that list of yours are from Season 1 and a lot of them needs some touch ups to be on par with others.

Orinne7/19/2014, 10:05:55 AM1 votes

To provide some quick thoughts of my own:

Olaf: Has seen a lot of changes but effectively got thrown under the bus with the Jinx patch, if I remember correctly. For the most part, it was nerfs to his slow (his only gap closer) and other things like the removal of spell vamp on Vicious Strikes. Put simply, no mobility when compared to top tier picks atm.

Urgot: The nerf to the range on his Q when hitting a target marked with E really hurt his viability and was one of the few things keeping him up when he was picked in competitive play. He was propped up almost purely because with the right support, AD carries just couldn't outtrade him and Urgot could kite them with ease, allowing him to win early game and transition into late comfortably. Once Q got his though, Urgot's late game, and even his mid game, is not terribly reliable because his damage isn't that great, and he's hard to fit into a lane.

Chogath: Lack of mobility. he needs considerable investment in AP to do damage, but becomes squishy if he does so, and if he builds tanky, he lacks damage. Going tanky AP doesn't really solve either problem.

Kennen: Nerfs and not particularly safe to use, even with Zhonya's. Karthus, Morgana, etc. basically do the same thing, but either put out better damage and don't care about dying (Karthus) or are played as support anyways (Morgana).

Udyr: Prone to kiting, on top of having a greedy early game with high mana costs.

Tryndamere: Critical chance isn't necessarily reliable and while he trades well in some top lane match ups, he's not that great of a teamfighter.

Nunu: Jungle speed is burst based but isn't consistent. As a support, he's only ever been a walking PD buff, which got nerfed some time ago, and with the introduction of Ardent Censer, is even more trivial. His ultimate needs to have a team built around it, when it's much easier to pick a more generic comp that performs better all around.

Fiora: Useless passive, not so great top laner, only a decent mid. Once she ult's, she dies pretty fast unless she managed to get fed. Of the melee AD carries, she's pretty much the worst of the bunch, and most of that group has never done well to begin with.

Heimerdinger: Easy to catch because of a lack of mobility. Turrets die fast late game, with the exception of his ultimate, which is only a bit tankier. His teamfight can suffer because of this, as his turrets make up the majority of his damage. His poke isn't as strong as other mages, such as Ziggs.

Xerath: Effectively outclassed by Ziggs. Also, no mobility.

Viktor: He has to build Death Ray's augment, which makes Gravity Field mediocre. Power Transfer has short range. While his ultimate is strong, it's only effective against enemies that can't spread out properly, making it easy to play around it. No mobility.

Sion: One trick pony play pattern that falls off late game. The one trick he's got got nerfed, and it already had a ton of counterplay, in that you could destroy the shield to delete half of his damage. No mobility.

Talon: Stronger assassins exist that aren't nearly as mana dependent.

Gangplank: Ultimate can be unreliable at times, and he's not remarkable outside of having a passive that can crit on its own base damage. He's effectively an AD carry with a cooldown on his auto attack. Pretty easy to push around early game, especially since he typically goes top.

Teemo: Strong if he can get going, but tends to just be annoying and not that threatening. Shrooms got an AP nerf and a competent team will have 3 upgraded oracle lens to take out any shroom that would actually threaten them. Bad teamfighting means he falls off.

Karma: All of her good utility and damage is contained in a pseudo-ultimate, but you can only pick one of them every several seconds. She's just less consistent as a support overall, and her mid/top lane isn't as threatening as Lulu's was whenever she wasn't support.

ILoveTiramisu7/19/2014, 10:15:08 AM1 votes

I think Olaf, Karma, Kennen, Tryndamere, Xerath, Master yi, Darius are played. Karma and Tryndamere are my favorite champ.

I think urgot, sion, gp, nunu, and teemo are dad.

Angry Monster7/19/2014, 10:53:16 AM1 votes

Man this post topic. First of i want to say that you should not of toss aside your first account. You could of learned everything that you did in your 2nd path to 30 but have more runes and champs unlocked. (my 2 cents on that). You did what most new players do jumped into rank totally unprepared the first time.

ok your list, i am going to try toi keep this simple and down 3 sentences. Do not confuse not meta in LCS as the same thing as Solo Q.

Olaf- His problem is that other champs have true gap close. Also that you have to give up your D stats to run through the enemy when you ult. not efficient and pretty fast way to die. People also talk about the mix msg of his casting with his auto patterns(but that is sorta complex

Urgot- Not an ADC. He is this weird ADC bruiser combo. can be powerful but ult can put him in bad situations. Not good in other lanes since he can not get him self out of situations easily.

Cho'Gath Um i do not know why you put cho on this list. Yes he is not used in pro bu that is cause of comps. Solo q he is fine as long as you knwo what you want to to do with him.

Kennen- same as cho.

Udyr- God i hate this champ. He is just item dependent and has a strong mid game.

Tryndamere- people hate this guy cause all he does is split push. Has very little team fighting potential. Mostly bad players is solo q split push and that is all they can do.

Nunu-utilty support champ. It just sucks playing this guy anymore. his jungle clear is fast but all his skills are AP based minus blood boil. Consume cant be used against champs so you have 1 ability and ult to fight with. Just makes fights hard but doable.

Fiora- I am not sure why riot released this champ. She is a duel aka soloest in a team game. To be supper effective you go in late take some damage and then ult hoping that you get it off before you get CC and blown up. Also the ult interaction with spells can be called buggy at best.

Heimerdinger- bronze nightmare, Diamond joke. IF you understand game play he is easy to deal with. Competent junglers will help shut him down.

Xerath- who said he is weak?

Victor- itemization issues. You get to have 4 and 1/2 items plus boots. Augment system is a failure and riot is supposed to look at it(2020 they said right?)

Sion- gimmick champ. If you go AP ult does not make sense. If you go AD shield and stun do not work like they are supposed to. Just a mess.

Talon- first problem assassins are out of vogue in general.(buff to exhaust) Problem is that he wants to get on top of a target to kill at popint blank range. its a suicide mission.(not good design) zed was a better concept on the same thing.

Gangplank- he is a fighter and that is the problem. Fighter itemization sucks.

Teemo- did you really ask about the most toxic champ? The king of low skill champs. you pray someone hits your mushrooms for free kills.

Karma- Some people have mastered this champ. people think she is weak cause they do not learn her.

Master YI- Low divisions want to blow everything at once in a fight so they have nothing to deal with yi when he comes in. Not really a issue at higher levels. Also a split push night mare that has little counter play in himself. Your team just has to plan ahead and have CC. Bronze players do not think ahead.

Darius- he is just not top tier, he is fine

Zilean- So he is a one trick pony. Very binary. Some skill that can be used with his ult but most players butcher that aspect or the people zil ults run away instead of dying.

So you mention poppy in your OP. That is a prefect example of that anything can be viable if you learn a champ. I have seen poppy jungle and tops recently. these players learn the champ and understand how to abuse every match up. Even the weakest champs can be viable through skill and work. Something you should consider.

Worgslarg7/19/2014, 4:16:38 PM1 votes

Basically they're all champions that have larger weaknesses than others, or are effective at certain elo's

Layek7/20/2014, 7:10:19 AM1 votes

You guys (Especially Kchaosrei and Soiyeruda) have really helped :D Thanks for putting time into writing these posts. I do appreciate it.

IAmNeverViable7/19/2014, 4:57:38 AM1 votes

well i don't play a lot of those champion but can say for some.

Urgot- good early but falls out of late game or teamfight because his ult is useless and landing the e/q is hard in teamfight. No escape or survivable in his kit. Cho'Gath- more of a situation pick. good for counterpicking on ap combo mage. lost his feast stack when dead and hard to gain them back. His mana cost is too much. Nunu- good for early jungle control but terrible late game. his ult is hard to pull in teamfight. Fiora- this champion either snowball like hell or become useless for to alot of reason. be zone out of farm, jungler camping top and really easy to counter her. She's too item dependent. Heimerdinger- late game is terrible due to adc can kill the turrent from safe distance. Xerath- his kit is too situational for ult is predicable and easy to dodge. zigg can poke better than him Victor his q take too long to return for his shield, w is easy to get out and his ult has a huge delay cast time. His 5 item slot is hurting in late game. High mana cost on all his kit. Sion- his kit is terrible in general, either he become an ap monster early but super bad late or become a terrible early and have a good late game monster but by then it's gg. Gangplank- his ult is really random and other champion does a better job than him. tankplank? better tank/brusier like renekton, shyvana and rengar. critpank? yasuo/tryn is better for they are a better duelist. Teemo- useless in teamfight for he's squishy and can be killed. teemo won't be standing in teamfight shooting darts. Master YI- easily counterpick for they can bring a team with an early invader/duelist or cc heavy. Darius- same with floria. He can be a monster or be destroyed by counterpick. he get kited too easily and don't have in game stat of a tank. He's full of damage. He's too item dependent Zilean- can be counterpick hard for the enemy support can bring a champion with shields or heal to negate the damage. He has no peel for adc making it easy to kill zilean and adc.

MrSc0tty7/21/2014, 1:09:32 PM1 votes

Zilean is an AP mid with no up front damage. Diving Zilean is almost an ensured kill. With the addition of catchup EXP in a recent patch, Zileans passive gives his team a level advantage for exactly six seconds of game time. He dedicates an entire move to reducing his cool downs when other champs just have lower cool downs-essentially that's another skill he just doesn't get to have. He also has a single target no damage slow as another of his moves, where other APs like Syndra get an AOE slow+damage. So he's pretty much got only 2.5 moves and no passive where other champs get four, and a passive.

Poppy has absolutely zero waveclear and ABSURD mana costs. A single ability rotation on poppy costs you your whole mana bar at level 3. Lane her against someone with waveclear and sustain against Renekton and you're absolutely toast. Nasus just does the late game juggernaut hyper scaler job better than her.

Urgot has again mana issues, zero burst, super short range, and an ult that kills him more often than not. Generally speaking you'd rather have a Jayce than an Urgot at all times.

Master Yi is very good at jumping in and destroying key targets over a couple seconds. If you have a team that doesn't know to cc and destroy him when he comes in, he will carry 100% of the time. Which is why he's OP in bronze and up everywhere else. Peels destroy Yi, no peels, he gets a penta.

Fiora, see Yi, Udyr, see Yi, Tryndamere, see Yi, Akali, see Yi, Gangplank, see Yi, Katarina, see Yi, Olaf, see Yi.

Viktor, Cass, Brand, Annie, Zyra, Anivia, and all the rest fall into the category of "immobile mages with clunky kits." They all do essentially the same things as Syndra, Xerath, Ziggs and Orianna, the fotm mages, but they do them less safely and at shorter ranges. Basically, when you look at one you go "if I want to be burstier, why should I not take Fizz or some other assassin? And if I want to poke or AOE, why not do it with the much safer Ziggs or Orianna?"

Sejuani, Maokai, Nautilus, and Rammus all fall under Tank Junglers. Their early vulnerability makes them heavily countered by early aggression junglers like Lee and Elise, who are in vogue presently. Basically it's a lot like why Cho, Nasus and Poppy aren't viable-because bullies like Shyvana and Renekton are super popular. If the meta shifted back to heavy ganking junglers, we'd see a rise in Naut and Maokai fotm (the two strongest tank junglers.)