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Rock Lee vs Gaara - why didn't Rock Lee win? (semi-intense rant)

Messenger Valon·6/14/2018, 8:52:22 AM·3 votes·7,550 views

(I am only on episode 51 of the original Naruto series. My knowledge of the series and the characters' outcomes and plot-lines does not extend beyond that, and this rant is based on my knowledge up to this point, mixed with a bit of logical questioning).

P.S -- Sorry for the wall of text.

Recently, I started watching Naruto and I absolutely love it thus far. I finished the episode where Rock Lee fights Gaara - and (spoiler if you care) Gaara wins.

My question is more complex than "what did Gaara do to beat Lee"...I'm questioning the logic of the writers behind the show.

Rock Lee's whole story is that he was born without talent in ninjutsu and genjutsu, meaning his only shot was taijutsu. His whole character personality is built on the belief that sheer willpower and determination will allow him to beat his peers who are naturally talented.

The message in his character is supposed to be this: "Hard-work, dedication, and believing in yourself can beat natural talent."

His character should be inspiring; his one goal, to show the world that he could be the world's greatest ninja...that his ninja way of limitless determination and never giving up was the correct path. The fight itself was very well done, as Rock Lee breaks boundaries and bones to find the strength possible to beat his opponent, with the one goal of proving himself right in mind.

But, despite opening the five gates and putting his body under immense, unimaginable strain...despite pushing the limits to where no one else would dare go, despite giving everything he had...

He loses.

"Why does this make you so angry?" you might say...

Because the message that the writers tried to convey to the audience was destroyed by the outcome of the fight

If the whole goal in creating the Rock Lee character in Naruto was to show the audience members that if they worked hard enough, if they gave it all they had, if they believed they could do it, just like Rock Lee, that they would be successful - then why the fuck would they have him lose?

I understand it would have been corny and unrealistic for Rock Lee to win the fight without breaking a sweat - I understand it would have made the message less impactful if Rock Lee had beaten Gaara without giving it his all. I mean, what's a good fight without some struggle?

But the fact that he straight up loses , just loses to Gaara after shocking the crowd and doing something that is probably rarely, if EVER done in the Naruto universe (based on the fact that it is considered incredibly dangerous and possibly fatal) is just so, so sad to me. And then, as if it couldn't get any worse, the medics announce that he will, and get this -- he will never be able to fight again, that his shinobi days are over. As if a stab to the heart wasn't bad enough, the writers decided to twist the knife. I know Kakashi goes on to explain that "Lee's short-sidedness was his downfall" but this honestly feels like absolute piss-poor writing to me.

Personally, I feel like the message would have been truly impactful if Lee had beaten Gaara, was declared a winner despite being horribly damaged, and then have it be announced that he could never fight again.

At least this way, his goal would have been achieved - the message would have been delivered, and the audience, though sad, would be inspired by Rock Lee's whole point in Naruto -

To inspire the chasing of dreams, no matter the odds, and no matter the cards you are dealt.

13 Comments

Busty Demoness6/14/2018, 4:45:08 PM2 votes

Short version is that due to the tremendous strain placed on Rock Lee's body, he was left exhausted and barely able to crawl. Gaara, as it was, barely came out on top because he ended up pushing his defenses to their limits as well.

Gaara's power is mostly borrowed, anyway (minor spoiler, but you'll see why soon enough). And once you see where his power comes from you'll understand why Lee couldn't just win.

Kuronii Lumiira6/14/2018, 9:30:16 AM1 votes

It sends the message of "yeah, life is shitty and you might get knocked down despite your best efforts, but you've just gotta keep trying"

ZerglingOne6/14/2018, 9:31:34 AM1 votes

Physics says Rock Lee won.

Plot required Gaara to win. It was basically to hype Gaara's power for something coming later.

The saddest part to me is that's essentially the end of Rock as a character...despite that not being his last fight. (sorry to spoil a bit...). But that is more or less the end of his exploits...and it's sad to me that he was never used later. Kishimoto probably was worried that he'd become too popular since the story is supposed to be about Naruto. So he more or less wrote him out.

Jamaree6/14/2018, 9:33:05 AM1 votes

Welcome to the real world fam, some people got it, others don't, though if it makes you feel better, Rock Lee gets some of the most iconic fights in the entire series, original and Shippuden for that matter.

Lulu the Support6/14/2018, 9:38:57 AM1 votes

I believe the show makes it pretty evident that Lee would stand more than a decent chance to win against his normal peers, such as Neji, Sasuke and Naruto. Although not evident, it does show us that his hard work gave him results the others couldn't even dream of accomplishing at that stage of their lives. Heck, even the teachers are impressed by his technique. However, what the author also wanted to showcase was the ridiculous power and unfair advantage a jinchuuriki has in a fight. It was to showcase how tall of a mountain others had to climb in the future of the series if they wanted to be relevant. I hope this helps.

WukongMain6/14/2018, 10:30:08 AM1 votes

The message in his character is supposed to be this: "Hard-work, dedication, and believing in yourself can beat natural talent."

Hard-Work,Dedication and believing in yourself CAN beat natural talent. That doesn't mean it'll win every time.

If the whole goal in creating the Rock Lee character in Naruto was to show the audience members that if they worked hard enough, if they gave it all they had, if they believed they could do it, just like Rock Lee, that they would be successful - then why the fuck would they have him lose?

Because working hard, giving it all you got and believing in yourself doesn't guarantee victory. sure, it might make you the best you can be but sometimes that isn't enough. Sometimes you need to be defeated in order to learn a lesson.

as if it couldn't get any worse, the medics announce that he will, and get this -- he will never be able to fight again, that his shinobi days are over. As if a stab to the heart wasn't bad enough, the writers decided to twist the knife

But isn't that even better writing? realistically injuries like that come out of no where and smack you in the face without warning and you are left to pick up the pieces.

To inspire the chasing of dreams, no matter the odds, and no matter the cards you are dealt.

No matter the odds and no matter the cards you are dealt. Rock Lee was just dealt a vary realistic card. A defeat despite giving it 110%. He broke through the odds and became a splendid ninja, a lesson we can all take to heart in our personal lives in whatever activity we are trying to become great at.

Defeat happens it is unavoidable even if all we got was given. How will Rock Lee handle this crushing defeat. How will this young man who has overcome obstacle after obstacle to become as splendid a ninja as he can be.. working hard for years to do so handle this vary realistic defeat?

How will Gai Sensei deal with having caused this? Afterall, If he had not taught Rock Lee how to open the gates one could argue that Rock Lee would have never experienced such an injury and would have continued on being a ninja without question.

The lessons the writers are showcasing here are as brutal as life itself. life isn't pretty and it does not care how much effort and dedication you have given.. It will throw rocks at you (no pun intended) and those rocks will test you and break you and threaten your vary existence.

Rock Lee has just been thrown a rock, One the size of a mountain. Will it crush him? And us along with it. Or will his undying belief in ones self shine through and shatter the rock?

Because the message that the writers tried to convey to the audience was destroyed by the outcome of the fight

It's like... You just read chapter one of a book and are claiming to know the message that the entire book was trying to convey. I say that only to put things into perspective without spoiling anything even though some other comments did already.

The message is still being given, Give it time. And it will break you and it has broken all of us. Seriously in Shippuden.... People gotta stop cutting them onions so damn much.

Xion Moonray6/14/2018, 1:53:45 PM1 votes

I've said it before, I've said it a thousand times: If Rock Lee was the protagonist, that series would have actually been amazing. Naruto is an awful protagonist, I watched something like 70 episodes before I felt like I just couldn't tolerate it anymore. But Rock Lee? He has a massive handicap, and he overcomes it by overcompensating in what he can do, which is an example of fantastic character development. He's determined as fuck and has a mentor that constantly encourages and pushes him further, fantastic, that's a good foundation for a story. Why is he not the hero?

Frankly, his arc and showdown with Gaara was basically the only part of the show I legitimately enjoyed, even if he did ultimately lose. After that the series was just a slog that wore me out.

ADC Bard6/14/2018, 4:48:01 PM1 votes

because Garaa has 1-tail inside of him

Bard

Nut on my Butt6/14/2018, 5:03:39 PM1 votes

Probably because it's somehow Naruto's job to convey that message despite the fox spirit giving him so many get out of jail free cards.

Incognonymous6/14/2018, 7:55:33 PM1 votes

Gaara is a jinchuriki, has a kekkai genkai, and is literally the strongest person in his village at the time of the episode. Lee has neither ninjutsu or genjutsu, and his one good taijutsu trick tears his body apart at the cellular level.

SheWuntsTheYi6/14/2018, 8:59:01 AM1 votes

I don't mean to be a smart-ass, but rock lee lose to gaara simply because naruto is the protagonist and that arc was a massive character building arc.

Incognonymous6/14/2018, 8:04:59 PM1 votes

It's worth pointing out that at this point, Gaara still had his trump card in playing possum jutsu. You could argue that he was keeping it hidden for the purpose of the mission, except he uses it, like, twice right after this fight, but I think it's just that even with Lee blitzing him Gaara was making do with his sand shield + armor + clones well enough not to need it.