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Let's Have a Discussion - Deception Champions

Nrsh·7/3/2019, 12:55:30 PM·17 votes·9,848 views

So, as you know there are some champions in League of Legends who (supposedly) focus around deceiving their enemies. I personally think that none of them quite hit the nail on its head, but some of them do a better job of allowing and rewarding deception than others. I would love a champion that is very bad when it comes to being frontal but after mastering the art of deception becomes a great threat. In this thread I'm going to go over three deception-based champions and analyze what they do right and where they need improvements. Before we start, I want to clear something out: my definition of deceiving is not merely surprising, deceiving an enemy means to also trick them into thinking something is true while it isn't / making them play into your hands and take advantage of that. With that out of the way, we can start analyzing.

First to go is LeBlanc - the deceiver:

Passive: The only deception tool LeBlanc has. It combines invisibility and a clone, two mechanics that go well with deception, yet in most cases it won't really be able to trick you, it will be more of an annoyance (at least it's like that for me).

Q: Strait up damage, not even a skill shot so there is not a need to play mind games with the opponent to make it easier to hit.

W: A dash/blink. Can allow for jukes via mind games but is mostly used for jukes and chases without any trickery or thought due to the insane amount of mobility it grants. Not much different than a normal dash/blink when it comes to the way it is used to dodge abilities.

E: Is a skill shot, but quite a fast one at that. Requires you to stay near the enemy (where you can be easily seen and taken down) to snare them, not something a trick master who likes to stay hidden would do.

R: Not much to say about this one since it just gives LeBlanc a recast for her abilities.

Conclusion: LeBlanc was always a failure in my eyes, she is supposed to be "The deceiver" yet her only tool of deception is her passive (and her W kind of). Her kit is too damage focused, making trickery irrelevant since she just bursts her target down. The rework she got was a big step in the right direction since it made her ult into a great deception ability, it even gave her E some depth since you get to try and trick you opponent to stay in your range and get snared. In my opinion it's a shame it was reverted. I have some Ideas for a Leblanc rework that I might put into another thread later. Stay tuned for that all of you Leblanc mains/lovers.

Neeko – the curious chameleon:

Passive: Cool idea, bad execution. The idea of looking like a teammate is cool, though you can't really do anything with it. If you attack, you return to normal, if you get attacked, you return to normal. Most champions you will lane against will try to poke you, it doesn’t really matter to them who you are, so they will just find out eventually that you are Neeko. In most games people (including me when I play her), barely even bother to try and trick others using the passive, it's mostly used to keep the real hp hidden / bait with fake low hp ("false data life" for all of you Overlord fans out there). Imo, Neeko should be able to stay disguised even when hit, but based on a timer, but more on that later).

Q: Not much to say about this one. It's fine, but it's not really related to her theme. Could be turned into something less "just damage", and more "you got tricked – a lot of damage, you played smart – you are mostly fine".

W: Good job on the active generally, a clone is always nice - it makes for option to throw enemies off and even allows to create a fake gank when used with her (actual) passive. However, the passive it has, is an instance of the reoccurring problem of Riot being afraid to make full on trickery champs. W's passive is basically a compensation for Neeko since she virtually has no passive, it has nothing to do with tricking the opponent, if something it indulges aaing and revealing yourself. It also brings us back to the problem I brought up with Leblanc – too much damage means less need to play tricky.

E: Why?! Just why?! Why make it get stronger the more enemies it goes through?! Now, don't get me wrong, my problem is not that it's op or anything (this is not what we are discussing at least), the problem is that it's a full 180 degrees from the deception theme! No need for tricks, just throw it through the minions if you need to, hell, it's even better if you don't trick them into going out of position since the root will be longer.

R: A bit too strong, it contributes to the "raw power over tricks" problem. Another thing that bugs me about it is that passive in its current state doesn’t allow it to go under the radar for long enough it's mostly landed using Flash, E or any other kind of movement impairment. The passive change I recommended earlier can help with that problem, though some power will have to be taken out of it.

Conclusion: Definitely an improvement from Leblanc. However, it just irritates me how close Riot got on this one. They were going in the right direction, but it feels like they chickened out on the deception trope at the last second and just ended up compensating her with raw power. I think that her Passive should be on a timer and not be canceled by anything (they should add an option for Neeko to turn back – after she turns into someone she'll have her own portrait to press to change back), this change will require the enemy to pay attention and will allow for some sweet tricky plays. I have no specific idea for an E and Q changes, but they definitely need ones. GET ON IT RIOT! SHE HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL!

Shaco – the demon jester:

Passive: Now THIS! This is what I'm talking about! What says "traps and cheap/tricky play" more than sneaking behind someone?! Great all around (just dropping that here: give it an indicator so that you know what counts as their back).

Q: Just a basic deception tool, invisibility and a blink. Would be better if it was camouflage instead, to require more smart and tricky play (can have some more uptime to compensate).

W: A trap. Something that always adds to the trickery and deception theme. Rewards forethinking and smart placement. Good with baiting.

E: Too simple. Doesn't add much to the kit. It should get some more synergy with the tricky nature of Shaco's kit along with more potential power. The only ability in his kit that should get a significant change.

R: Great execution! A fully controllable clone that greatly rewards successfully deceiving your enemy (by making them think the clone is actually you).

Conclusion: Shaco is the MVP of this discussion. While he isn't perfect, he is definitely some levels above the rest. His E needs some work but he really has the right "shape" I'm looking for in a champion of this kind. His kit could use some more complexity but it does the job despite of being simple.

To wrap up: Imo, the main problem that prevented the "mind games and deception champs" trope from working is Riots fear of making champions too weak/hard to play. Riot should be more daring with their changes and champions, and in the worst-case scenario the champion can be buffed/changed/reverted. If you don't try out crazy and daring ideas, you won't be able to create an interesting and unique champion. They do seem to go in the right direction lately, with the Teemo (and some other champs) trial and error for example, and that gives me hope for the future.

I didn't bring all of the champions in the game that have trickery/deception aspects in their kit, but I do feel like I brought up the main ones. Tell me what you think about the thoughts I brought up, and give me some of yours. Nrsh, ooout.

22 Comments

EATARI7/3/2019, 6:34:57 PM7 votes

I personally loved deceiving people with Neeko. Running from the river as an Ahri makes enemies instinctively run behind minions to avoid the charm, only to be surprised when Neeko roots them through the wave.

ChickenWrap7/4/2019, 12:48:56 AM6 votes

Lux's Q hitbox is pretty deceptive too.

L Psy Kongroo7/3/2019, 7:36:53 PM2 votes

The main problem with creating a champion completely based around deception is that it wouldn't make for an enjoyable experience to play against for the average player. This basically boils down to basic human psychology: people don't enjoy feeling stupid. They don't appreciate others taking advantage of their lack of knowledge, and in the vast majority of cases if one person in objectively more intelligent than another, the less intelligent person will feel inferior and envious, thereby tainting all future interactions between them. How this translates to League is that champions requiring more focus on tactical and strategic play over mechanical proficiency are oftentimes the most frustrating to play against, and consequently Riot tends to avoid making these types of champions.

Shaco is a good example of this. Shaco does one thing, and he does it well: he punishes mistakes. His abilities allow him to wreak havoc on disorganized, uncoordinated teams, and on players who lack the game knowledge to play against him. Because of the simplicity of his kit, a greater burden of knowledge is placed on one's strategic aptitude and the ability to think in unfamiliar terms. And this doesn't just apply to playing as Shaco either. Playing against Shaco requires you to plan your moves carefully so that you can foresee in advance where he will be and act accordingly. In essence, you must put yourself into the mind of the Shaco player. It's a battle of wills, a meeting of minds; one person's strategy and tactics vs. another's. Much different from the usual mechanical outplays that people are used to making. Shaco draws people out of their comfort zone and forces them to adapt to unique situations more so than any other champion in the game.

And herein lies the problem. Strategy can't be taught in the same way mechanics can. You can play the same champion for 1000 games, get to know their kit at an incredibly intimate level and how to use it, but the same cannot be said of strategy and critical thinking. To use an example, a chess newbie could conceivably memorize every possible chess opening in the book; but that won't make them a chess grandmaster. The average casual player makes tactical errors without realizing they're making tactical errors. With mechanics, it's easy to say "oh, I pressed E+Q+flash+W instead of E+flash+Q+W, I'll do that next time". But it's a lot harder for untrained players to think 2-3 minutes in advance, plan a jungle path, focus objectives properly, get into the opponent's head and figure out what their next move will be.

High elo players on the other hand do this kind of thing constantly, meaning it's a lot harder for a deception-based champion to work well against them. Using Shaco as an example again, there's a reason so few people main him in diamond+, and that's because it's infinitely more difficult to out-think people who know what they're doing. Consequently, a champion based entirely around deception would most likely become a low-elo stomper and useless in high elo.

UsErname90007/4/2019, 12:39:54 AM2 votes

Just came to say I appreciate the Overlord reference. (Season 4 when ;-;)

ChickenWrap7/4/2019, 12:50:08 AM2 votes

Q: Just a basic deception tool, invisibility and a blink. Would be better if it was camouflage instead, to require more smart and tricky play (can have some more uptime to compensate).

Honestly you just gut Shaco into even further unviability with one change. He is melee and Q is his gapcloser. You're going to make it so that he can't actually ever reach anyone ever?

FiveAneurysms7/3/2019, 7:35:18 PM2 votes

{quoted}

it's mostly used to keep the real hp hidden / bait with fake low hp ("false data life" for all of you Overlord fans out there).

AAAAAA

Fanboy noises*

Jerry SeinfeId7/4/2019, 8:43:28 PM1 votes

these things are often either gonna be broken or weak as hell. same reason we have no true rogue/thief archetype.

shaco's case is special due to his nature as mostly a jungler. this allows him to utilize his Q in a more assassin manner compared to actual trickery.

it's also the reason i prefer toplane AP shaco, but that shit's dead.

SanKakU7/3/2019, 7:37:02 PM1 votes

Last I checked, Shaco's boxes are bugged and don't even work correctly. They are coded like Teemo's shrooms but they weren't before(if he tries to stack them, the game pushes the new traps away from the already existing traps). Not sure how relevant this fact is to the discussion, but he's not as good as he used to be due to the trap bug.

The Ecdysiast7/3/2019, 7:37:07 PM1 votes

LeBlanc's has never really fit into how she functions in game. Similar to how Swain was never much of a tactician. It's more about the story.

Ravenborn7/3/2019, 7:41:57 PM1 votes

I really believe LeBlanc should be reworked into an mage so her clones have more impact in the game, I love her as she is but I would like if her lore matched with her in-game.

Singularitea7/4/2019, 12:34:45 AM1 votes

MonkeyKing should make the list somewhere, but probably low, likely under Leblanc . His only deception is making you think he used W but he didn't. Q and R are just damage, E is a dash which is not necessarily deceptive but maybe tricky?

CloudedLogic7/4/2019, 5:38:24 PM1 votes

I am pretty sure autoing does not reveal neeko from her passive, which you seem to imply it does.

Should mention that fizz has a trickster flavor but doesn't really have anything in his kit to reflect it. Just damage and evasion.