Morg Interactions with multi-stage CC and Zoe's E (The Game Disagrees With CertainlyT)

CLus·11/30/2017, 1:21:18 AM·3 votes·1,075 views

The Zoe interaction comes at the end.

Note that Morgana's shield displays "spell immune" even as she gets stunned anyway. Further, the debuff for 'drowsy' goes away and is replaced with a new debuff, presumably 'sleep', implying they are two separate effects. This implies Black Shield should stop the second effect from taking place as long as it is up. Everything about this interaction at the end of this video points to intentionally coding this differently than every other similar ability interaction in the game. The game itself lets you know you shouldn't be getting cc'd and how bs it is that you are anyway. When you're done making money off your new shiny bauble, riot, please fix this.

27 Comments

LostFr0st11/30/2017, 1:27:45 AM4 votes

CertainlyT posted a direct reply about this very subject:

"CertainlyT comment on the interaction between Zoe's E and Morgana's E:

Hey Mudinthewater. I chose this model after some thought, though it was a close call. Ultimately what is in game right now is as follows: There is one moment to Black Shield Zoe's Sleep, and that is when the target would be hit by the missile/trap and become Drowsy.

This model offers the most play for both parties: Morgana has the ability to Black Shield the Drowsy, but she has to use her Black Shield in response to the spell cast itself, which might be a waste if she or her ally dodge.
The alternative of Black Shielding Drowsy, having your Black Shield break and watching your ally fall asleep seemed problematic for other reasons -- the Morgana player would be punished for doing what seems optimal (reacting quickly and exercising good judgment about their ally's dodging capabilities).
This is most consistent with how Black Shield works elsewhere. Here is where we came to different conclusions. You have chosen a number of delayed CCs that have conditionals on them (of course Black Shielding with 3 stack Braum P mark on you blocks the follow on stun, we haven't initiated the stun sequence yet). There aren't a huge amount of true multistage CCs in League. I used Nasus W (a progressive slow, which Morg E does not stop from progressing) and Malphite/Vi R (Knock Ups with follow on Stuns after the target lands which is not prevented by Black Shield).
This is most consistent with how Black Shield has been re-shaped on over time -- the spell was originally developed as a Cleanse + CC immunity but we preferred the anticipatory play model over the purely reactive one. I am always open to revisiting these things, especially on very close calls like this. It would be better to focus the discussion on what generates better gameplay, since there is no "right answer" in terms of how the game functions elsewhere."

source:https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7fpn0f/morgana_blocks_every_multistage_cc_with/dqe1gco/

Salron11/30/2017, 1:52:50 AM3 votes

Zoe E isn't multistage CC, it's all applied at once, the sleep is simply delayed, like Nasus wither cannot be affected by a late black shield The second stage of all tether based CC like karma, morg, lb, etc. is a seperate portion of the ability from the first hit and can be avoided entirely

Braum passive isn't even multistage CC it's literally just a stun on the 4th hit, there is no other stage to this

Anonagon11/30/2017, 4:34:29 AM2 votes

None of the stuff showed in the video is what "multistage CC" refers to, besides Zoe's E and Nasus's W, which surprise works consistently with Zoe's E.

Things like Karma and Noc's tethers, Braum's and Sej's counters, and others don't apply any the CC until they "trigger" after a certain time or a certain number of stacks.

You know what would be a much more applicable comparison? Chogath's Q, which applies a 1.5 second slow after the target is knocked up for 1 second. If you spellshield a target who has already been knocked up by his Q, the slow will still apply, just like the Zoe interaction.

Busty Demoness11/30/2017, 4:08:32 AM1 votes

The best way to say CertainlyT is wrong is by comparing it to Nocturne's E, tether fear. The drowsy itself is not a CC, just the delay before it. To consider "drowsy" the first stage of the CC (when it doesn't actually do anything, which means it doesn't apply CC on its own) is also contradictory given Karma's and Morgana's tethers.