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TFT is too random to be a game of skill

Odyssey Sona·7/3/2019, 10:19:13 PM·10 votes·8,853 views

IDK, you can be in the mid game and see what people are building, and try to counter it/build against it

Let's say someone's building rangers and they're at 3 different rangers, and they're absolutely steaming everyone. So the natural response is to go assassins to kill their rangers before they can whittle down whatever team you have?

So what do you do when the game throws 3 giants belt and a chain vest at you? Where is the skill? How do you account for this?

The only consistent strat I've seen is the reroll strat, and that can go tits up or be unstoppable depending on what the game starts throwing at you. You can either get a bunch of random 3stars with no synnergy or you can get a team comp if the game is generous, and there is literally almost no outplaying the raw numbers of 5+ 3 stars.

If it threw three items at you every mob round, and you'd only get to pick one, then you'd at least stand a chance of relying on your skill/knowledge of items/matchups to win.

Imagine getting random items on summoner's rift? It's so frustrating.

Maybe also give a chance to manually ascend a character, and it costs double the amount of gold per copy to do it but there's no RNG factor.

Then the game would be more about economy management than complete RNG.

As it stands right now I'd say the game is 80% luck, and 20% skill. There's just no consistency.

I want to say you have more control of your games in ARAM, and that's saying something.

Some After Thoughts: Managing the economy would now be a lot more important. Knights are extremely cheap, so you might go a knight comp with a frozen heart vs rangers, because now you know how to build one, and you know you need to get through two rounds to get the items you need to build one.

Also another thought on the manual ascension. Now gold is guaranteed power, and you have to weigh how to get gold. You have to weigh interest gold vs win streak gold. You have to spend gold to gain temporary power to increase win streak gold, vs not spending money and gaining interest gold.

This is how you make it a game of skill.

20 Comments

Mr Voidling7/3/2019, 11:31:38 PM5 votes

Whaaat it is definitely skill, I remember just yesterday trying to get a second tier MissFortune , had 2 of her already(both had an item since I grabbed #2 from the roulette) so I spent like 60g on rerolls and never found that 3rd. Pure skill, no luck involved... [zombie-nunu-tears]

Also, if Pyke & Lulu with item 3161 could be addressed that'd be great. Played a game with Pyke item 3040 item 3124 and that is broken af, not fair to play against OR play as. Like Glacial on steroids.

Rockman7/3/2019, 11:35:02 PM4 votes

Part of skills is knowing when to reroll for characters

Busty Demoness7/4/2019, 2:10:44 AM2 votes

At least in ARAM, general game knowledge and general mechanical skill can compensate for a bad champion roll. You simply don't get that luxury in TFT by any means.

But, TFT is what Riot could monetize and that's why they're giving it a ranked mode before ARAM.

GeminiRune7/4/2019, 1:11:45 AM1 votes

I remember this thing called the Heart of the Cards....

That's some mad skill to have, yo!

Sir Gusi7/4/2019, 11:01:51 AM1 votes

I must say I believe it's about 90% luck and 10% strategy I mean even if you have good luck there are still comps that are OP like 6 assassin's if 2 of them are 3 star you lose 8v6 WTF and even though I love the elemental comp that golem is a bit too tanky good to build to make a comeback but still a bit too strong.

SanKakU7/4/2019, 11:33:08 AM1 votes

Honestly, I think they broke the RNG in this latest update. I got 3 Red Buffs in one game, a single opponent in one game had 3 or 4 Spears of Shojin, and just now I had 3 Cursed Blades in a game. And I've been seeing stuff like Nidalee show up once in the first 2-or-3-dozen rounds or more. She's a 1 gold cost unit for crying out loud.

Destaice7/5/2019, 5:41:20 AM1 votes

People say the same thing about card games but deck building and decision making are so vastly important that there’s a notable difference between pros and the average player

Get27/14/2019, 10:04:20 PM1 votes

I think my favorite part are the diehard elitists you see in here. Had one bloat out an emoji when they wrecked me. And I said, "Awesome job, I guess?" And they replied, "You guess?" And I was like, well up to a point--a very large, grotesque point--the game is all about RNG. It's a slot machine for poor people. To which they lectured me on the immense skill and decision-making one needs to be good at the game, and how they can't wait for ranked because they will have a chance to vomit their superior essence of gameplay upon the masses and have a status to show for it.

They lost to my noob friend. That was fun.

I mean the over-arching issue with this game, that I've played 60 times and won zero (unless you count 2nd-4th place a win), is that you are forced to go one direction, and don't have time to find out if you're crossing hairs with other people until it's too late. 20 seconds is simply not enough time to look at all your enemies, plan around their meta, and even if you try, you have zero guarantee that you will complete a counter-build let alone the intended build you started off with.

So, so many games I do well the first 10 rounds, then just like that, someone gets an edge I can't counter, and I am done. Forced to lose. And it's not like you can reroll/rebuild your map to be more effective. You just have to keep hoping you will get that one drop or champ you need to get a tier 3 or a stat edge.

And countless, countless games I've rolled the character box like a slot machine 100 times to never find anything I need or am looking for. I am simply outright denied, even if I am last three on the map, with what I would assume would be a refreshed inventory from all the people who lost. I blew something like 300 gold looking for ONE AHRI to get my first tier 3 so I could try to fight against some dude with 10 random, partially-themed champs, five of which were capped.

But I am sure it was his immense skill that caused him to end up with 60 picks he needed to complete those 5 capped champs. So much skill.

Making decent decisions as best you can is surely part of the game. But that's only so good, and there's only so much info you can access and process to determine if you're going the right direction. Even if you are making the absolute best and right decisions at every single pass, you're still stuck on the luckboat.

At best, you are in control of about 30% of the outcome. But the game clearly picks its winners. It's about as random as a daily routine in that regard. Anyone who can win 10 games in a row can certainly contest me and point out where I am wrong here. Hell, even 3 games in a row would give reason to change thought to some degree. But 60 losses in a row, where 20 of them you place 2nd/3rd, and steamrolled until the last 5 matches. . . nah. It's RNG.

Since I can't afford Vegas, I will play this instead. Won't give me money. But it won't cost it either.

PinkDecoyBunny7/29/2019, 1:30:04 AM1 votes

The game takes very little skill into account.

Last game I played that I took 2nd place in - one of my friends was the other person that I was going against. We were the last two players in the match and went against each other 4 times. Neither of us got any rolls to build up our characters nor items to help boost our current character powers.

Neither of us rearranged our character layouts. I won the first 2 matches and he won the last two. Zero changes were made on either side and the sheer randomness of the game allowed him to win the last two rounds and take first place.

The game is broke AF.

I can purchase 8 to 10 champs through the course of the game and not get any of them past two stars and half of them past 1 star. Usually 95% of my games start like this:

pick a champ (usually one I see all the time come up in cards in every other game) that has an item that will benefit it
first 3 minion fights: Round 1 = gold, Round 2 = gold, Round 3 = one item that doesn't match well with the initial item I started with 2b) I now have 3 champs after the 3 minion fights, I have not seen a second nor third card to allow me to promote any of my champs to 2 star 2c) First player match up - they have 1 or 2, two stars with a blood thirster/GA/shiv and walk all over me
Next two matches until the "island pick" I don't find enough cards to get any champs to 2 star and every player I go against kicks my ass
Island pick comes up - I'm in last place, but I don't get to pick first, usually I'm slotted 2nd or 3rd to pick 4b) Because I don't go first, the one or two before me gets the champ I need or by the time I get released the stupid circle of champs, the one I need is all the hell the way around on the back side and someone else picks what I want before I can get to it. 4c) I'm stuck with a champ I haven't purchased a card for yet and sometimes they have an item that's actually beneficial to my needs...so I either sell the champ and keep the item or keep the champ and hope I can make use of them later
Go to wolf mobs (or rock mobs, whatever one comes first) - I now have 4 champs (sometimes 5 if I dump my coins to boost my character to allow more champs on the map), I'm lucky if one is two stars. Half the time I get lucky if I can beat all the wolves and when I do, I'm lucky if I get 1 item (40% of the time) and extremely lucky if I get two items (10% of the time) and the other 50% of the time I just get gold
Generally I get gold....now I'm able to reroll for chance to get new or more champ cards that might be beneficial - nope, nothing useful. I go up against other players and they now have a 3 star and 1 or 2, 2 stars with multiple full item builds
I get rocked the next player matches and by then I'm lucky (extremely lucky) if I'm still in the match with any health.
If I've made it this far in the second round, I'll be dead by the start of the third.

This is how 90% of my games go.

This mode is broke AF.

ErdoS Is Here7/31/2019, 1:43:22 PM1 votes

The way I see it, there's so many different games of luck, that in the end it KIND OF evens out. That's how I look at things, and how everyone should, IMO. First let's start with some facts

Here's a list of luck/random based things we're ALL victim to: Item drops Rolls Draft pick Which way the champs decide to move in battle Who we face

Here's skill based aspects: Making the most of the champs you get, seeing the pattern, building towards it Having champ contingencies for when you don't get what you want (people who complain about not getting the one champ they need sound like noobs to me, honestly. It happens to absolutely everybody.) Positioning Making the best items with what you've got Countering with items/champs/positioning rather than just "what I think is optimal but I'm not gonna look at the other boards" Knowing when to roll, when to save (yes rolls are random, but it's smarter to roll when you're open to 5 different champs rather than if you're only looking for the 9th Garen and that's it)

**LASTLY and probably most important - 4TH PLACE OR HIGHER IS WINNING ** Understand that out of 8 fucking people, you're god damn right, chances are some one is going to be luckier than you in multiple ways. And the next game maybe it'll be you, probably not. Be ok with getting 4th, call that a win, because it is. You don't need to be the luckiest. Again, there's so many games of luck it really evens out for 3-5 people every game, which is why getting 4th is still good and fine.

To be really lucky, or really unlucky, is both very rare, and even that also evens out over games. If you think you're always unlucky, you're not. You're either unskilled or a pessimist.

MorganSlaveman8/17/2019, 9:24:55 AM1 votes

whenever i think of rng in a game i always compare it to hearthstone. ever since all the new expansions and whatnot since maybe LOE turned hearthstone into a goddamn clown fiesta of random shit. But goddamn TFT is so much more of a pray-to-win than hearthstone will ever be and that's saying something... I agree with everything that's been said so far about how little skill is involved. Memorising a bunch of drop rates is NOT skill. Call it skill if you want - it's not going to mean anything if the game decides you're going to end up in the bottom 4.

With that being said, i can see why it's popular. it's addictive. cancerous but addictive. i'll probably keep playing it and lose all my hair while i'm at it.

Skinnybuddah3/1/2020, 11:37:59 PM1 votes

TFT is 80% Luck. If you go for for example Light Champs. I cant imagine TFT in higher Elo. In higher Elo where everyone knows how to counter, its only based on Luck at this time.

afmghost7/3/2019, 11:50:18 PM1 votes

That's what I say about fortnite, but it became popular somehow.

And no, I do not like fortnite

IaiReiko7/4/2019, 12:21:27 AM1 votes

Nah its too much rng.

Theres no way its fair for you to only get 1 or no items before wolves. While someone can get 3-4 items on the 2nd wave. You are pretty much guaranteed to lose. And you can't catch up on items in this game. It's unbalanced.