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Is Riot ToU a legal contract?

DBS Ronovon·4/16/2018, 10:26:36 AM·2 votes·5,116 views

There is a law preventing Usury, and the law will tell you that when committing usury, it doesn't matter what your contract says. This is one example someone using a contract and it not being legally defensible.

If Riot puts in their terms of use they have the right to kill any player, it would not hold up in the courts.

If you are not prepared to have an argument on legal grounds, Do not attempt reply to this topic. If you're going to say something silly, like "Riot isn't saying they are going to kill anybody in their terms of use," Then don't bother responding. Having a legal discussion involves making comparisons and talking about precedence.

Now that I can see so many people think ToU is a legally binding contract, I will use your own words to enact the same legally binding contract on all of you.

Just as I have stated many times before, if Riot says with weasel wording that they own everything, and you're renting RP, the account, the skins, etc... That your money "buys nothing," Their ToU doesn't make special laws for Riot concerning Commerce allowing them to avoid delivering to a paying customer the standard expectations which comes with a purchase.

Disclaimer: TLDR ToU for this thread: If you down vote here or post anything I deem annoying you now forfeit all rights to your account, and your personal money, and must send me all of it when I demand it so. By posting here or down voting you are consenting to these terms of use on this thread.

Have a great day!

107 Comments

How Do You Meta4/16/2018, 12:03:28 PM17 votes

If you want to talk about the law, then sure why not? First of all, usury is the illegal practice of loaning money at unreasonably high rates of interest. Second of all, you gave riot your legal consent to use their intellectual property in the contract they provided along with any updates they have to the property and/or the contract. You do not have to play League of Legends, and if you disagree with any of their TOU you do not hit the agree button or play this game. To answer you question, yes the TOU is a legal contract, every time you hit the "I agree" button you sign yourself to the contract stated.

Modi4/16/2018, 12:19:32 PM16 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Njgq8e0,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-16T10:26:36.281+0000)

There is a law called Usury, and the law will tell you that when committing usury, it doesn't matter what your contract says. This is one example someone using a contract and it not being legally defensible.

Are you sure you use the right term/concept?

u·su·ry ˈyo͞oZH(ə)rē noun noun: usury the illegal action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest.

How does riot commit usury? I don't see any kind of interest on their ToU, or anywhere else

If Riot puts in their terms of use they have the right to kill any player, it would not hold up in the courts.

If you are not prepared to have an argument on legal grounds, Do not attempt reply to this topic. If you're going to say something silly, like "Riot isn't saying they are going to kill anybody in their terms of use," Then don't bother responding. Having a legal discussion involves making comparisons and talking about precedence.

Your example above is quite provocative (and not in a good way). It boils down to three the statement: Contracts cannot contain illegal verbiage, which includes verbiage that grants them rights beyond what is legally permissible. It is non sequitur with your example of usury above.

If you want to continue with the usury basis for your argument, please do show me where in the ToU or is allegedly committed.

That aside, your restriction that no one point out the obvious gives your argument the appearance of weakness, that it cannot withstand simple scrutiny. This is not a legal forum, where most everyone is an expert or knowledgeable when it comes to legal details and precedent setting cases.

Just as I have stated many times before, if Riot says with weasel wording that they own everything, and you're renting RP, the account, the skins, etc... That your money "buys nothing," Their ToU doesn't make special laws for Riot concerning Commerce allowing them to avoid delivering to a paying customer the standard expectations which comes with a purchase.

Now this is where we get interesting, and relevant. While yes, the ToU canot grant then privileges outside what is legally permissable, the paying customer argument doesn't quite hold up.

Riot does not remove from an account, any items that are legitimately obtained. What they do revoke is your grant of access to Riot services. To access their services, you must be using their infrastructure (premises, if you will). Their private premises are granted the same rights as any private premises: the right to remove, or have removed, anyone they wish, so long as they are not discriminating.

Just as you can kick people out of your house, Riot can do the same.

It may seem like a cheap cop out (and probably is), welcome to the real world, where all anyone anywhere wants to do is make a quick buck.

Edit: Fixing typos, I hate typing on phones.

AeroWaffle4/16/2018, 11:39:43 AM13 votes

As with any legal argument over the contract you're free to take them to court over it. Let us know how that works out.

Scary Door4/16/2018, 3:59:53 PM8 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Njgq8e0,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-16T10:26:36.281+0000)

There is a law preventing Usury, and the law will tell you that when committing usury, it doesn't matter what your contract says. This is one example someone using a contract and it not being legally defensible.

If Riot puts in their terms of use they have the right to kill any player, it would not hold up in the courts.

If you are not prepared to have an argument on legal grounds, Do not attempt reply to this topic. If you're going to say something silly, like "Riot isn't saying they are going to kill anybody in their terms of use," Then don't bother responding. Having a legal discussion involves making comparisons and talking about precedence.

Just as I have stated many times before, if Riot says with weasel wording that they own everything, and you're renting RP, the account, the skins, etc... That your money "buys nothing," Their ToU doesn't make special laws for Riot concerning Commerce allowing them to avoid delivering to a paying customer the standard expectations which comes with a purchase.

Not sure where you obtained your law degree but I sure hope you aren't practicing anywhere.

First, some education, Usury Laws refer to the practice of loaning money at unreasonably high interest rates---these laws are setup primarily to counteract "loan sharking". In a Usury case you're dealing with people that have set an unreasonable interest rate or penalty.

This isn't even a valid comparison with regard to League of Legends/Riot Games. In the case of Terms of Use or End User License Agreements (EULAs), you are digitally affirming a contract; the terms of which very clearly state that either party may end the agreement at any time, but Riot Games has the right to do so without warning, for any reason or no reason at all.

Riot is ostensibly granting you a license to enter their servers and access their content. You are a guest on their servers and have no legal expectation to be allowed access on anything other than a temporary basis. This is not simply a scenario that applies to Riot, but all digital content providers have similar agreements and are treated equally (or nearly so) under the law. You pay for spotify? They can revoke your access at any time. In the case of League, you don't even have to break a rule for them to revoke your access----that may not be smart business practice, but they very clearly indicate that this is the case in their ToU.

Terms of Use are very broad, but have a few limitations... if an agreement causes an individual to forfeit any legal/constitutional rights (for example "by signing this agreement you forfeit your right to own a firearm") then that is not a legally binding agreement. Otherwise, so long as the agreement doesn't violate local, state or federal statutes then perfectly acceptable.

S0lShadows4/17/2018, 8:28:04 AM6 votes

You seem to have this "I am smarter than you" attitude and I really dont think anybody likes it. There are many good comments in here clearing explaining how the terms of service works and that it is legally binding, but instead of listening to these comments (which are correct by the way) you would prefer to insult people and argue even more, When you agree to the terms of service, you are agreeing to their rules for utilizing their server. Yes, the items on the account are yours, however your ability to connect to said account is through Riots services. As a result, if they perma ban you, they did not wipe your account or delete any of the items that you paid for. They simply stopped allowing your account to access their servers, which is Completely Legal.

It`s no different from, say, buying an iPhone or an Android phone. When you set up the phone for the first time you must agree to the terms of service (Or EULA) in order to use the operating system. You paid for the physical phone, and that physical phone belongs to you. No matter what you do, Apple or Google cannot come take that physical phone away. HOWEVER, their operating system is a service, and if you were to violate the agreement (say by jailbreaking), they are fully within their right to deny you access to their operating system. They did not steal anything from you, because you paid for the physical phone, and then agreed to utilise their service under their conditions

Now, I have summarized what numerous other well written comments have said, included a reasonable and logical argument and included examples. Whether or not you reply maturely or continue with your current attitude remains to be seen.

EDIT: Just to add, there is no reason that the terms of service is not a legally binding contract. A legally binding contract simply has to be agreed to by both parties on the exchange of goods/services. In this case, Riot agrees to give you access to their servers (a SERVICE) in exchange for you playing/spending money (GOODS). For example, when you call a cab and have it take you somewhere, that`s a verbally binding contract where you agreed to pay the taxi driver in exchange for his services. Now, if there was something in the terms of service that violated a law, then that contract you agreed to would be null. But there most likely is not anything illegal in the terms of service. But there is nothing Riot has done in their terms of service that is illegal.

EDIT 2: Also I just read your little terms of service in your post and had a good laugh. There are numerous reasons your terms of service are invalid. First of all, nowhere did we agree to said terms. Secondly, there is nothing being exchanged between us other than words. You cannot post a terms of service agreement on these boards demanding access to your account if we say something stupid because:

A) These boards do not belong to you. They belong to Riot. B) The accounts do not belong to you.

The fact that you think anything you are currently saying makes sense is amusing me.

ModBoggyBuntu4/16/2018, 5:18:33 PM6 votes

Leaving aside the weird usury thing... inasfar as I know, ToU's are usually enforceable, provided that the user is given both an easy way to read it, and they have a way to confirm that you read (or at least accepted) those terms. While there is no universal standard or minimum requirements, the existence of a checkmark to create an account, plus the "I accept" button that reminds you of (or updates to) the ToU, and the fact that you are only obtaining licenses for the use of champions, skins, etc. rather than obtaining them, means that you have a very small case against Riot in the case you'd want to incur in legal action.

Class Action Lawsuits are a thing, but from what I know you'd need to have a strong case that you were ripped off in a way or another, or were adversely affected by the company. PlayStation/Sony have had two, both the PS Store leak (which leaked lots of IRL data) and the removal of OtherOS (which required you to swear that you'd bought a PS3 because of it), but in both cases it was because there were big changes/damage that affected an enormity of users. A ban on League for toxicity/boosting/etc. has way less chances to succeed imo because it only affects a really small minority of real players and requires the user to intentionally provoke/create the causes and effect for this to happen.

Just throwing my two cents since there are way better answers before me tbh.

HalcyonDweller4/17/2018, 12:21:31 AM4 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Njgq8e0,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-16T10:26:36.281+0000)

Disclaimer: TLDR ToU for this thread: If you down vote here or post anything I deem annoying you now forfeit all rights to your account, and your personal money, and must send me all of it when I demand it so. By posting here or down voting you are consenting to these terms of use on this thread.

Your persuasiveness is proportional to how forceful you are with your opinions and ideas. And you could press a diamond from coal with this post.

Nobody likes manipulative arguments. Don't use them, it only makes you look bad.

Gear Jammer4/17/2018, 3:36:37 AM3 votes

Keep your day job... Dont go to law school you would be a horrible lawyer

Who Fed Ru4/16/2018, 12:08:55 PM3 votes

Riot isn't saying they are going to kill anybody in their terms of use

Tormentula4/17/2018, 2:03:15 AM2 votes

Simple as this;

You're not forced to pay money, its an option, and you're not forced to play the game. When you press "I have read and agree with ToS" you agreed that you read the warning about spending money on a constantly changing game and that your account still has limits and riot has none with what they do with it.

Taking that to a court, riot would simply show the terms, and reveal that you pressed "i agree" which makes your case void of any refund or law suit to the company. If in the event a player didn't have a ToS to read, and didn't say they agreed, then that could be a different story but riot is pretty up to date when the terms are changed and they don't ever bug out like that.