In response to the new Exil video

Blue Shift·12/21/2019, 9:05:04 PM·28 votes·9,938 views

The Champions That Riot Will Be Removing From League of Legends | Stat Sticks Documentary

I enjoy Exil and if you haven't seen some of his videos, I would highly recommend checking them out, but this does not mean he doesn't make mistakes.

The video is about Riot adding only new champions with "insane levels of depth and complexity" and how the older champions like Shyvana and Trundle don't have this.

First off, I personally don't think this is very true at all. I agree they are definitely more complex than the older champions, but nowhere near "insane" levels of complexity and depth.

How complex is Akali?

She literally just runs at you until you die, if she can't, then she will disengage and try again later. She literally has a "press this button to kill" ability with her ult due to how overtuned she is as a champion, where her counterplay for some reason is a long cooldown so she can't do it all the time.

Another example is Kayle.

Old Kayle pretty much just pressed E and that was the jist of her kit. Her Q was mainly used to slow enemies to chase or kite, her W was used to heal and give her movement speed to again chase or kite, and her Ult was used to help her as a squishy stay in the fight longer due to her on-hit focused kit. She could also be used as a support due to how well her kit was designed, more as a "this champion has these abilities, go decide where she goes", rather than the current "this champion is a support marksman".

How is this any different from new Kayle?

New Kayle gets power shifts at levels 6/11/16. When she first released (after he grace period of being overpowered for riot to sell shameless skins), she was one of the worst champions in the game pre-6. Her gameplay was hiding under a turret until she got enough stats to out 1v1 you. I would make the argument that old Kayle was better than new Kayle in terms of fighting against her, and fighting as her.

You can do this to pretty much every champion released recently. If they take skill like Yasuo or Pyke, then Riot overtunes the absolute fuck out of them to make them feel fun to play for the lower elos, where a lot of the sales in skins come from.


How is Yasuo better than something like Dr. Mundo?

Dr. Mundo if he's played properly will be a threat just like a Yasuo would be. The difference is that something like a Yasuo can still outplay a Mundo, even when it should be a 50/50 stat wise.

If anything, I think we should go more down the route of "why are the most complex champions overtuned to the point where they don't need to use their complex kits?"

Start fixing champions like new Akali so they can't just walk into you with little skill and be able to kill you.

What would you rather verse, new Akali or Dr Mundo?

Akali will use her 7 second shroud duration to most likely kill you before it ends, using her "insane levels of depth and complexity" to kill you, while the other will run at you and try to hit his cleavers so you can't just run away from him while kiting.

Dr. Mundo counterplay is grevious wounds, some penetration, and some fancy footwork. New Akali's counterplay is to avoid her when she has ult up.


In the video he uses champions like Tryndamere and Master Yi as examples, but people have been complaining about these for a long time, and not due to the fact that they just auto attack.

Tryndamere's RNG passive early game makes him one of the most frustrating champions in the game to verse and Master Yi's Q is one of the most annoying abilities in the game due to how much it gives.

These champions can easily be fixed by just doing some simple kit changes.

Master Yi:

Passive - no longer stacks with guinsoos for 2-3 autos in one

Q - No longer is reduced by auto attacks (current: autos reduce cooldown by 1 second), decrease cooldown from 18-14 to 12-8.

Tryndamere:

Passive: (current 5 fury on autos, double if crit, 0.35 to 0.5% crit chance per 1 fury = 35%-50% crit) new: 0.1 - 0.5 bonus AD per 1 fury = 10-50 AD + crits gain 0.1 - 0.5% bonus damage per 1 fury = 10-50% bonus damage

E - No longer is reduced by crits (current: autos reduce cooldown by 1 second, doubled if against champions), decrease cooldown from 12-8 to 10-6.

R - Ult is no longer 5 seconds at all ranks (current: gives 50/75/100 fury and lasts for 5 seconds), new: ult lasts 3/4/5 seconds and makes him fear everyone near him for 0.5/0.75/1 second(s).

Riot seems to always want to completely revamp champions instead of just fixing small issues with their kits that make them unfun to play against. Either this or they artificially gut champions like old Aatrox and Kalista by nerfing their base stats.


"There is no real way to outplay a Mundo outside of literally just dodging a cleaver"

- Yasuo's counterplay is to literally just dodge his Qs, the example of a good champion given after this

"The outplay part, the counterplay part to Mundo is not how the abilities are used, but rather how the champion itself is being used"

- Firstly, this is not true because if you miss every Q, don't press W for the tenacity, or even something like pressing Ult when you are low and it just kills you. Secondly, I see where he is trying to come from, but a champion like this is healthy for the game, it promotes different playstyles like Tryndamere and his more Macro way to play rather than just 5v5 deathball mid every game.

"The skill of statball champions are purely based off knowledge of the game, it doesn't matter if Mundo is extremely strong and built all the right items if he never shows up to teamfights."

- This is more of a tank issue than a statball champion issue. Tryndamere can never group and still win off split pushing. Master Yi can never group but win off of getting picks and objectives, etc...

"It doesn't matter if Mundo groups at all the right times and is always in the right spot if he builds 6 hexdrinkers against a full AD team"

- Pretty sure everyone can see how stupid this is, obviously if you build completely wrong like 6 hexdrinkers against a full AD team, no matter if you are Mundo or Yasuo, you will still lose pretty hard.


TL;DR: It was a well done video, but just slightly misinformed, educating people of the wrong things.

25 Comments

ContDeCaterinca112/21/2019, 10:53:57 PM11 votes

Trynda and Master Yi have nothing going on to them other than autoattacking.

That's why they need the resets on their engage abilities.

Without them they would be perma CCed. It would make picking them over someone like Jax pointless.

Do note I hate both champs. I am not making the argument in favour of them for free. They should nerf Trynda's E CD reduction to 1 second on champs. They should fix Master Yi interaction with Rageblade and maybe make his Q 18 secs at all ranks if it's really such an issue.

Kiwi Lemonade12/22/2019, 12:01:23 AM5 votes

Big problems are free mechanics, pretty much void of player skill.” Thats carries these champs for you.

Akali gets free damage, her passive interaction was almost good, having to e shuriken and back out to get the auto empowerment. But then you realize she doesnt need to do this, Q is good enough range. So she outrades you with q and passive alone, free to use w and e for free. After gunblade hell she doesnt even need her ult and can use it as yet Nother disengage

Yasuo has great skill ceiling. Then he gets double crit on his passive so bad early play is negated by 2k in free stat value.

Tryndamere should never get crit via fury. Maybe get crit during his ult, but 35% crit at level 1? Kek. Half his hp heAl per minion wave? Makes his early game unbeatable, and late game unbeatable (ult). You have to gank him 1-5 or the whole game will be a ticking bomb of him splitting and getting closer and closer to your nexus.

Master yis issue is that he his an AA champion and honestly barely autos, just needs a single Q reset to win the teamfight.

PRoxy oQ12/22/2019, 6:48:03 AM4 votes

I would rather face akali than mundo she cant tank kill my whole team although we are all hitting him/her.

As far as yi and tryind goes

Trynd ult needs to be gutted for the amount of dmg he has and cdr every single trynd is rushing Yi's Q need's to be stoppable aka have his dash and animation canceled by spell shield/banshes and W can not give tank stats to a champ with true dmg also reduce base dmg to force him into criting you. 2/3 must happen as he is hella toxic is yolo Q and will be allways useless in ''pro'' play.

Teémò12/21/2019, 11:28:22 PM4 votes

The thing is I actually really enjoy the stat check champs, they focus on capitilizing on your opponents mistakes to gather an advantage. Trundle isn't jumping through walls and isn't impossible to gank him, but he isn't mobile to gank for either. They should exist, but not in the bot lane Brand the jungle has always been about stat checking.

They do make stat sticks still. Urgot summoner 14 only needs to do 40% of your health really so he can ignite ult you. Everyone and their mom's got big shields, big heals aftershock can win you a lane if your not a idiot. Darius and yeh it's league 2.0 and they want to remove the 1.0 without losing their fan base. Ranged skill shots like mundo cleaver it's much more enjoyable to both ally and opponent than a champ that doesn't truly rely on skill shots or ranged poke to be able to kill

kda akali12/22/2019, 12:36:16 AM4 votes

Akali is pretty complex when you compare her to old Akali. The rework removed her targeted dashes, added more skillshots, and passive a which relies on positioning. I don't really think riot adds insane levels of complexity, just changes champions to be more inline with current releases.

Crescent Dusk12/21/2019, 10:24:07 PM4 votes

Stat check champs like Master Yi are the worst iteration, but honestly at least their gameplay simplicity means they have more counterplay.

Talon has more counterplay than Akali or Zed. With Mundo it's simple, dodge the cleavers and buy grievous wounds.

HopeStartsWithU12/22/2019, 1:56:07 AM4 votes

Firstly, this is not true because if you miss every Q, don't press W for the tenacity, or even something like pressing Ult when you are low and it just kills you. Secondly, I see where he is trying to come from, but a champion like this is healthy for the game, it promotes different playstyles like Tryndamere and his more Macro way to play rather than just 5v5 deathball mid every game.

This annoys me a lot. This doesn't make sense. Simply because this part assumes picking a high risk high reward champ doesn't require macro and champs like Trynda that "luck" out of 1v1s or even teamfights promote more macro style plays.

EVERY champ requires macro. Especially champs like Yasuo with the only gapcloser being targeted on enemies. Not knowing where the enemy is is the key part of Yasuos inting left and right. That's also why good junglers camp Yasuo, he AUTOPUSHES (ruins his own wave in other words) the lane, making him vulnerable.

Tryndamere can just press R to be as tanky as a tank in a fight and run away with his E. I know that this is not the only part about macro but early laning to grouping/ making catches is a very BIG part of macro plays.

She literally just runs at you until you die, if she can't, then she will disengage and try again later. She literally has a "press this button to kill" ability with her ult due to how overtuned she is as a champion, where her counterplay for some reason is a long cooldown so she can't do it all the time.

This is straight up wrong. Compare her ult to Karthus: The difference is that Akali has to be INSIDE the enemy while Karthus presses R from god knows where and gets the job done. It's also an execute so Akali has to deal damage before she kills someone. On top of her playing around the shroud which limits her playground. Akali also has to back from enemies to proc the passive.

She doesn't just "runs to you until you die" she also can't just "disengage and try again later." Only if you LET her do her way and don't trade back at all. Akali has A LOT to miss. From Qs to Es to even her ults. Akali also needs SEVERAL seconds to "nuke" someone, her damage is, thanks to the passive, delayed compared to, say, Talon who does all in one rotation or Fizz or LB or even Rengar.

Dr. Mundo counterplay is grevious wounds, some penetration, and some fancy footwork.

There is unlimited footage of Mundos walking past 5 enemies, popping ult missing his shit still killing the ADC in the process and maybe make it out alive. The best part? He scales anyway. He doesn't need many items, he doesn't need to win lane/jungle, he doesn't have to snowball like Akali does. I rather face an even Akali than an even Mundo. Mundo, in fact, destroys the majority of melees in an even match up 1o1.

Anyway, your post is simply invalidated by numbers alone. https://u.gg/lol/champions/akali/build?rank=diamond_plus and Mundo: https://u.gg/lol/champions/drmundo/build?role=top&rank=diamond_plus Mundo jungle is pretty much the same.

Yasuo: https://u.gg/lol/champions/yasuo/build?rank=diamond_plus Tryndamere: https://u.gg/lol/champions/tryndamere/build?rank=diamond_plus

Overloaded kits? Maybe? Yes? Definitely. Overtuned? No. Complex? For sure, numbers wise at least.

Libido12/21/2019, 11:13:27 PM4 votes

Exil: Bla bla bla tank meta bla bla bla tank meta bla bla bla bla bla ardent meta bla bla bla tank meta bla bla bla atmogs bla bla bla tank meta

Support Evelynn12/22/2019, 4:21:29 PM3 votes

Ah Exil, the guy who vaguely remembers league history (probably through hearsay) while trying to push his own interpretation.

Stat sticks are being removed he says? Then why do so many modern champions have the ability to miss almost everything and still one shot you? Why is Zoe's entire kit frontloaded into 2 abilities? Why does Yuumii exist at all?

It's like when making this video he has completely forgotten champions like reworked Irelia exist. A champion that was so broken that they had to remove entire portions of her kit just to barely keep her in line. If all you have to do versus Voli/Udyr/Trynd is kite, then there is no hope versus a champion like Irelia because they do the same thing on top of having 15 hidden abilities and dashes.

Riot does not rework champions for game health and Riot does not rework for pure modernizations. Akali, Irelia, Aatrox, Evelynn, Kayle, etc all prove this. They rework champions to:

  1. Allow developers to create champions without adding to the champ counter. All you have to do is take a champion with a smaller dedicated fanbase and completely change everything they do. Most notable of these in history were probably the Sion/Poppy/Galio reworks where they specifically chose champions with low playrates and completely altered their playstyle. Since the player base was smaller there would be less resistance to such a change. However in modern times Riot has gotten more bold, choosing to do this with champions that had big playerbases like Irelia, Akali, Evelynn and even Aatrox towards the end of his existence. This has created some of the most unpopular reworks to ever grace league, even to Riot's own admission.

  2. Make champions become more interesting to spectators. It's no secret that league in general is moving towards this truth. The days of long teamfights, methodical rotations and sieging are over. This type of rework were mainly heralded by Akali and Irelia in particular, having so much crap loaded into their kit that they were removing a ton of it for months after release and they were STILL LCS mainstays.

Exil's video is a joke, but when are they not? He over exaggerates times in history as if they were prolific like multi warmog's and forgets times like gromp smite meta with tank junglers in season 5 with the likes of sejuani and cho just to name an example. I bet he'd say multi sunfire twitch and evelynn were busted outside of the bowels of unranked.

A lot of people snarl at simplicity; but the truth of the matter is your champion isn't complex just because it has more stuff in its kit. I think more and more people are realizing this, especially with the release of the joke of champion called Aphelios.

HideSide12/22/2019, 12:22:33 AM3 votes

How complex is Akali?

She literally just runs at you until you die, if she can't, then she will disengage and try again later. She literally has a "press this button to kill" ability with her ult due to how overtuned she is as a champion, where her counterplay for some reason is a long cooldown so she can't do it all the time.

Lol, the most complex champions are: Aatrox, Akali, Aurelion sol, Azir, Braum, Darius, Draven, Fiora, GP, Irelia, Pantheon, Renekton, Rengar, Shaco, Swain, Warwick, Yorick and after them: Ahri, Camille, Cassiopeia, Ezreal, Gnar, Khazix, LeBlanc, Lee sin, Riven, Sylas, Vladimir, Yasuo, Zed and each one of them who is focused on DMG can just run at you and kill you on rotation of spells, but what makes them complex is amount of things you need to be aware of and need to know how to do to be able to pull them off in certain situations. You need to be able to do multiple things while aware of another multiple things... Thats something Malphite players dont even know about. ( and ye, I copy pasted champions from my text block, where I have alphabetically ordered champions while sorted by my opinion of their playstyle and overall concept)

What you wrote can do almost every toplaner with any sort of mobility or ranged CC, both hard or soft... I really like how everyone hates akali because of her ability to "run at ppl". Who cant do that when you let him? Hmm? Everyone can do that... What ppl like you write can be summarized as: "I didnt know what to do, so I let her kill me, so that I could b;tch around how unfun it is to play against it and that it doesnt need any skill..."

Sewer Side12/22/2019, 3:15:03 AM3 votes

I mean, you can make any champion sound binary when you simply dumb down their kits to “damage, slow, heal”

Bropocolypse12/21/2019, 10:24:14 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2Eq2a3dH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-21T21:05:04.510+0000)

I enjoy Exil and if you haven't seen some of his videos, I would highly recommend checking them out, but this does not mean he doesn't make mistakes.

I wouldn't believe that particular youtube creator if he was standing in a downpour and told me it was raining. As for the "misinformed, educating people of the wrong things", that's like saying water is wet. Talk about setting the bar really low.

destroyer2271912/22/2019, 1:05:49 AM2 votes

I agree with kayle. Old kayle is much more balanced in each stage in the game and brings much more consistency in the table. When I first played kayle after she got reworked I feel like I was playing as a jungler who didn't take smite. At least with weak laners like Nasus and Cho Gath they have some form of ranged and reliable waveclear like the old Kayle does. Old kayle's late game was very much formidable and strong. But she doesn't 1v3 your whole team when split pushing.

RyzeRework12/22/2019, 9:21:11 AM2 votes

I think it's really a matter of opinion I'd rather face akali and yasuo than a mundo yi and tryn. The problem is there is more outplaying an akali yasuo than a mundo tryn and yi. If you dont like my opinion it's fine. Plus mundo ult with spirit visage pretty much negates grievous wounds after level 16 and he almost just 1v5s being a tank and having insane damage. I smacked a sion as a full tank mundo with a cleaver and it did 800 damage. And how many champions have a kill button besides akali? Veigar Pyke Urgot Chogath Evelynn Fizz Zed Darius Garen Qiyana Neeko Zoe you gotta hit anyway point is I feel like you come off douchey without thinking of what your saying. If you think akali is the only champion that can do that well.. your just wrong. Or If you think yasuo is the only one that does what he does... your still wrong.

XJ9999999999999912/22/2019, 6:59:58 AM1 votes

I'd argue shyvana is complex in the way it takes skill to max farming while still applying pressure when you can.

There are a ton of things you can do as a shyvana player that makes the difference between a casual and a veteran shyvana player stand out.

Things such as :

  1. Purposely not autoing a camp while in dragon form as you just used it to gank. You just E and W to deal damage and just wait it out so you can auto more and ult faster.

  2. Not using your W and E on some camps so that you can have your ult for a specific timing. If you use your W and E, you will kill the camp too quick, making your ult not come up.

  3. Being able to make use of her speed from her W to catch up and dodge things. Along with phage, this is a huge skill that I don't see people use.

  4. Only using W when you know you can get an auto and potentially a Q off to extend the duration so you can chase. Too often Shyvana players just use W way out of range that it runs out by the time they reach the target. They then can't extend it with autos.

  5. Going into dragon form and W Q'ing a caster wave for a massive speed boost. You have a max stack W and a 60 movement speed boost from phage. Hitting the caster wave is 6 autos, which is 6 stacks. But there are only 4 stacks, so you only need to Q 2 caster minions. Can also do melees, but you prob won't kill the kill proc unless 1 was weakened. To do this, you have to be using the bloodrazor/blade king/trinity build..

  6. Knowing when to use your ult to engage and when to save it to stick onto a target and negate CC.

  7. Knowing when to only W and auto Q a target instead of E'ing. You only E if you know you can keep up and keep dishing out damage, otherwise you lose damage and potentially the kill. Use E when they commit onto a fight with you.

Tons of other things, but these are things that make the attack speed shyvana I do viable that people don't do and why people think Shyvana is trash and a "0 skill" champion.

Easy to play, hard to master, best defines shyvana.

Also, ofc people make mistakes. no1s perfect.

God King Doofus12/22/2019, 7:23:34 PM1 votes

The only stat sticks riot cares about removing are melee stat sticks. The entire ADC class is just raw stat sticking but it’s ranged so it’s okay. Riot has shown time and time again they don’t like melee champions as much as ranged unless the melee champ is an assassin. It’s sad but that’s the way it is.

NelsieLisnen12/21/2019, 11:11:23 PM1 votes

A yasuo can outplay a Mundo? Uuuh nope. Maybe early. Once Mundo takes off it's over. Champs like trynd and yi will always be bad because they can't realistically deal with the kiting and utility in the rest of the roster. It's not number changes they need, it's mechanics.

FB Ospraey12/22/2019, 5:27:19 AM1 votes

When I see new champions released, I wonder if its not too late to just remove them from the game. Do we really need this character, or do we need to fix someone else with aspects this character has.