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Dear Riot, Let's Talk Meta

ThatDamnedYordle·4/26/2019, 1:57:06 PM·1 votes·1,172 views

Before I start let's set some rules.

  1. This is a discussion not an argument. This means let's try to take emotion out of it and simply raise our points of view
  2. Don't downvote just cause you don't agree with something. Let's try to upvote the comments who make valid points and downvote the ones that are trolling, or simply have to much emotion attached.

Since that's out of the way let's get started.

Riot, it is my opinion as well as some others that the current Meta has gotten out of hand for a little while now. Since I started playing back in season 5 I have seen a transition from the tank Meta to the hyper damage Meta. I've also seen my personal playtime decrease significantly over this transition. I find this largely because I will think about playing this game again only to shake it off due to wanting to avoid becoming tilted due to being deleted with minimal warning or time to react. Riot has even admitted to damage being to high. And I was hoping to have a few questions answered for real.

Why did we move so heavily to this Meta? Is it to seem more exciting to get new players? Is it what your QA team enjoys? To help YouTubers get more views by making clickbait titles more true?

Is this a step to make the champions who originally had a really high skill cap (i.e. Zed, etc) have a lower entry floor to excite newer players when they delete someone and escape?

Shouldn't the goal be to reward high skill while still allowing every champion to be viable? ( This is more my opinion, but I feel like it's perfectly OK to have champions who are harder to play but are more rewarding when mastered. Mobility being used to dodge skills and outplay is much healthier than mobility being used to be on top of the opponent and instantly delete them and still having mobility to get away)

I know that the community does not want the tankmeta, but why do tanks have to be so unviable?

What is the problem with having proper counter building and positioning and macro gameplay determine the outcome of the game rather than flipping a coin on who has the most mobility and highest damage? Wards have been decreased. The number of champions who can use unpredictable patching has increased.

What I really want to know is why we have not seen a step away from this in a significant way. When I play with friends or look at the boards, a large portion of what I see is people getting deleted near instantly and thus enducing more anger overall.

Again this is meant to be discussion and I apologise for any amount of emotion there seems to be in my post

Thanks in advance, Me

8 Comments

Literal IRL Tree4/26/2019, 2:20:35 PM2 votes

The last real damage meta we had for extended time (not counting preseason) was season 4 I believe. Assassin reworks have made short burst of assassin time being most played but since my start in season 4 I've seen tank meta of s5 and s6 tanks s7 enchanters with 2 tanks season 8 also tanks until conqueror's release and then tank nerfs. Currently the enchanters seem to be coming back, hypercarries are in (scale too quickly but exist) the main reason for damage being too high is riot adding "defensive" items that are just slightly less damage than offense, examples being Phantom Dancer/GA/Sterak/Death dance being either added or changed. Defensive runes also tend to be given damage (aftershock/grasp/shield bash).

Hammermancer4/26/2019, 3:00:37 PM2 votes

{quoted}

Before I start let's set some rules.

  1. This is a discussion not an argument. This means let's try to take emotion out of it and simply raise our points of view
  2. Don't downvote just cause you don't agree with something. Let's try to upvote the comments who make valid points and downvote the ones that are trolling, or simply have to much emotion attached.

oh boy, you missed out on the juggernaut patch... good for you!

Since that's out of the way let's get started.

let's, (PS no hard feeling but i disagree on some points so meh)

Riot, it is my opinion as well as some others that the current Meta has gotten out of hand for a little while now. Since I started playing back in season 5 I have seen a transition from the tank Meta to the hyper damage Meta. I've also seen my personal playtime decrease significantly over this transition. I find this largely because I will think about playing this game again only to shake it off due to wanting to avoid becoming tilted due to being deleted with minimal warning or time to react. Riot has even admitted to damage being to high. And I was hoping to have a few questions answered for real.

Why did we move so heavily to this Meta? Is it to seem more exciting to get new players? Is it what your QA team enjoys? To help YouTubers get more views by making clickbait titles more true?

There have always been 1shot builds and 1shot combos, since SotD on malphite

Is this a step to make the champions who originally had a really high skill cap (i.e. Zed, etc) have a lower entry floor to excite newer players when they delete someone and escape?

If this is a game about competition.. why shouldn't we attempt to encourage this dimension of the match to require more skillful interaction to perform well at a higher level of play

Shouldn't the goal be to reward high skill while still allowing every champion to be viable? ( This is more my opinion, but I feel like it's perfectly OK to have champions who are harder to play but are more rewarding when mastered. Mobility being used to dodge skills and outplay is much healthier than mobility being used to be on top of the opponent and instantly delete them and still having mobility to get away)

There are two extremes: Too much utility, and too much stat check, I personally favor utility because you can only go in one direction and frankly a game where everyone is Garen or Olaf vs a game where everyone is Azir or Riven... well i got with the azir or riven philosophy. Utility, outplays, skillful combat, not just itemization from macro/gold determining the outcome of a fight... which with simpler champs is really the main thing.

I know that the community does not want the tankmeta, but why do tanks have to be so unviable?

Tanks when strong actually have less counterplay than any assassin, skill based fighter, or mage. When strong tanks have all of the advantages of juggernauts with almost none of the drawbacks.

What is the problem with having proper counter building and positioning and macro gameplay determine the outcome of the game rather than flipping a coin on who has the most mobility and highest damage? Wards have been decreased. The number of champions who can use unpredictable patching has increased.

I think that it is definitely a coin flip right now because the reliable champions wind up being brokenly oppressive when they're brought up to par and the skill champions are always, and have always been relatively balanced with eachother. There has never been a meta where fiora COULD NOT beat riven in a 1v1, there have never been metas where Zed and Jayce couldn't go 1 for 1, New irelia and new akali can trade blows, and in this class we also find yasuo who isn't a problem for fighter or assassin champs when played at their max, but isn't a pushover either.

What bugs me is that these two styles of champs have all had relative parody for almost a decade and everyone wants to 'balance' them by gutting them of all identity and buffing the shit out of things that, whenever they have a slight gold lead will just 1shot you or will hold you down and choke you to death on wet noodles.

What I really want to know is why we have not seen a step away from this in a significant way. When I play with friends or look at the boards, a large portion of what I see is people getting deleted near instantly and thus enducing more anger overall.

99% of those people are playing mobafire/youtube guide builds and don't counter itemize or properly understand the matchup. and then instead of asking for advice they demand nerfs

Again this is meant to be discussion and I apologise for any amount of emotion there seems to be in my post

Thanks in advance, Me

you didn't seem overly emotional bro, i just wanted to lay out the other side so you can get it. I play Jayce, I play akali, I play fiora, Irelia, I play those cancer champs and i love to play against them. an outplay for me isn't a malphite ult, it's proper rationing of my mana, cooldowns, interrupts, mobility to ensure a won fight. As i get better at the game the opponents i face get better and so I learn more mechanics

I find that the people who complain are usually into reliable and low mastery effort champions. I'm not calling these players bad, because frankly macro IS important and SHOULD be rewarded. but i'm saying their champs lack the tools for that level of combatant. They're playing champs from mario while we're playing champs from tekken.

Like.. think of it this way, take a champion's kit. if that champion could easily wind up in soul calibur as a full fledged character with little alteration (Riven for example) then they wind up in a state of relative balance against eachother. if that champion couldn't get into soul cal without a bunch of weird homebrew moves (brand or even talon) then they need updates not buffs.

nobody likes just being flat outclassed by blobs of stats. it isn't fun, it isn't enjoyable. I think these brawler champs (For lack of a better term) are a really good template. Well rounded, with enough utility to 1v1 or 1v5 other champs of the same classification based on the pilot's skill over all else.

CamedInYourBoi4/26/2019, 4:07:24 PM2 votes

I think part of the reason it transitioned away was because the game was boring to watch. Lcs games had like a total of 3 kills between both teams and someone would surrender.

Unkillable tanks slapping people with wet pool noodles isn't fun to watch, or to experience really.

With all of that said, they took too many steps to nerf tanks, AND buff damage instead of just one or the other so it swung the other way like a pendulum.

It SHOULD be a happy middle ground, where tanks can actually tank, but aren't the optimal thing to be and games are decided by who is the tankiest.

I think that damage should remain the same, and tank items should be buffed significantly. This way, carries can still kill eachother reliably, and deal with bruisers when significantly ahead, while still needing their teams help to deal with tanks, and tanks should be able to withstand adcs for more than four seconds, and shut out ap carries.

Ap carries exist to shut out bruisers and other carries, but we also eat through tanks like wet paper. Mr items need a buff. Base mr for melee champions could stand to be increased as well.