I'm curious as to what kind of effect the new positional ranking will have on overall skill.

Electro522·1/17/2019, 6:01:33 PM·2 votes·2,477 views

If you haven't seen already, a new dev diary is out on the new ranking system coming for this season.

https://youtu.be/tydJwdQRMqs

You can find the transcript here

But what I mean is that this new ranking system could have the potential to cause a "trickle-down" effect in both game knowledge and skill.

Say.....you're a Diamond 4 jungler that got autofilled to your worst position, which is a Gold 1 ADC (the difference in ranking may not be this extreme in reality, but my point still stands). Your skill level in that role may match everyone else's skill level in that game, but your game knowledge is still better than everyone in that game.

See, climbing isn't all about skill, or how good your ping is, it is also how well you understand the game, and all of it's fundamental mechanics. How well can you farm? How well can you help your team lock down objectives? Snowball a lead? Control waves? Close out a game?

So, this Diamond 4 jungler, despite playing ADC, still uses all of his habits and tricks he uses in any general game, even if he is not aware that he is using them. He'd keep an eye on jungle timers, and likely pay more attention to the map than your regular Gold 1 ADC. This would lead him to make calls for certain objectives, and know which area of the map his team should pressure. Maybe he even gives a little advice to his jungler, giving him a tip here and there on the specific matchup.

Something goes well in that game, and a couple other players learn something about the game through the actions of the diamond 4 autofilled jungler, even if they don't realize they did learn something. They then go on to use that knowledge in future games, and possibly even use a trick they learned in that specific game to turn around a future game. This leads them to win games, and be matched against tougher opponents, which also leads to increasing their skill. And, you never know, maybe even the diamond 4 jungler would learn something from that game.

Now, before you say "You're giving the League community WAY too much credit, and actually think a player would pay any real attention to what goes on in a game." , obviously, one game is not going to have that much impact on the overall playstyle of any individual player. However, even if you don't realize that it is happening, you are learning more about the game with each and every game you play. The reason for this is due to human psychology, and how the mind works and what not.......all of which is WAY too much to go into right now on a game forum.

The fact of the matter is, that if you play with or against someone that is a higher rank than you, even if they don't interact with you at all in the game besides just playing it, they indirectly teach you how the game works, even if it's just a minuscule amount. Over time, that experience and knowledge adds up, leading to you climbing higher. And yes, this does happen even with smurfs.

Of course, this is something that would take years to see any real noticeable change in the overall skill of a region. It's not like everyone is going to be fighting for a challenger spot by the end of the season. That said, if League is still around in 5 or so years, and Riot sticks to this ranking system, you may see that high Gold is the average rank of a player besides mid Silver.

19 Comments

Hethalean1/17/2019, 6:20:47 PM1 votes

My first thought (and maybe this is handled in the video which I have not watched yet) is how will role trading affect where your LP goes? Will it be smart enough you traded Jungle for Support? Will it be smart enough to realize that you were still support as a jungle main, but went support anyway and just took Smite? Trying to game the system by fooling the positional stuff.

DrCyanide1/17/2019, 6:25:24 PM1 votes

I think all in all it'll be a good system that people will complain about regardless. I fully expect a month or two of people saying how awful the system is for this reason or that reason and how it killed 2019 ranked.

I think it gets super interesting when you think about comparing players though, particularly if you're assembling teams for a tournament. I'm interested to see how well rounded players are.

Worth pointing out that in the Riot API announcement the ranking for individual roles stop once you get to Master+ in any role. From then on you're just expected to be equally good at everything.

Tormentula1/17/2019, 6:27:08 PM1 votes

I'm warning everybody in advance that I won't have much incentive to not just play whatever I want when I get autofilled.

I really don't see how riot can make this system work.. if I'm a jg one trick, what this system basically tells me is when I get autofilled for ADC, is I can play my same one trick bot lane, in an easier MMR game, and than just go back to winning in the jg, recovering LP lost in jg after 1 game and over time in the bot lane role with splashing anyway.

Heres what I'm visualizing;

  • autofilled bot lane

  • game is probably gold or silver while my main tier is D4/3

  • I obviously don't care and just go bot lane Elise and see what happens, as long as I try to win riot can't justify punishing me, which tbh is what i already do now, surprisingly win a lot of my autofill games by playing what i'm familiar with rather than trying to carry with something I can't position for shit as.

  • Then I get back into jg and go back in winstreaks and pretend those "experiment" games never happened, or better yet win those "experiment" games and win even more in the jungle.

So far I don't see how riot fixes this issue. "but you'll lose a lot of LP/it will add up over time", if I'm a confident player that climbs, I don't feel worried about the few times I get autofilled, even if I end up losing 200 LP worth from auto fill games, If i'm still confident in moving forward this doesn't bother me. High MMR doesn't really complain about autofill as much unless they're OTPs or scared of hard losing, but I feel like thats exactly what this new system fixes... for better or for worse, better for OTPs, worse for literally everybody else.

I'm not trying to troll either, like I said this is just my better odds of winning based on how its been going so far, but with the new system I don't see why players wouldn't just troll or do similar things. I'm already picturing a lot of lux/lee sin/whatever ADCs because smurfs and the like really don't give a shit and just try different things in ranked since it impacts them very little.

Hell from my perspective, I'd rather do experiments in my own MMR, I'd like to tell people "yo, look at this dumb build I tried in diamond MMR, it worked surprisingly well" instead of "yo, look what happens when you throw a diamond into a gold game and he stomps because even off-roled he at least knows macro significantly better"

Moody P1/17/2019, 6:32:46 PM1 votes

system is bad and Riot needs to stop pandering to one tricks

IOffMeta GtOvrIt1/17/2019, 6:43:30 PM1 votes

If you're into Psychology correlation doesn't also equal causation, just because the average rank goes up doesn't mean the playerbase is getting better it could also be that more higher ranked players in other positions are getting placed in lower ranks for off-positions.

And attention resources can only be allocated to so much and people learn at different rates. With all the different factors in league I would argue that not everyone can catch exactly what's going on or even if they do, be able to know how or when they could apply it themselves, in essence they see it happen but do they know why its happening and even if it looks familiar small factors can change from situation to situation. I would agree that players can learn some things through sequential learning of seeing how higher ranked players operate but their micro skills, applying those macro skills, reactions to certain scenarios (tilting on a bad play or dying multiple times even if your team is ahead) can also play a role.

It is interesting at the idea of seeing an average rank increase overtime but even more so knowing exactly what is causing those increases. That's data for ya.

Akali is SO HOT1/17/2019, 6:54:40 PM1 votes

One thing I'm confused about is how getting roles that are lower than your highest MMR will affect your total ranking. For example, I'm Plat IV 100 LP in promos and for Mid I'm Plat IV (my highest) and for my Support I'm Gold II. I get autofilled to support and win the game so I'm now in Plat III. So now my Mid is still Plat IV and my Support is still Gold II, but I'm in Plat III. So that means my skill level with my highest role is Plat IV, but now I'm getting matched against Plat III players?

This whole thing seems super weird and confusing so I'm not sure how to feel about it yet. Guess we'll have to wait and try it out and then see how we feel about it after a month or so.

HommeGoujon1/17/2019, 7:12:33 PM1 votes

I'm wondering if high level players will actually have some of their roles in lower divisions or if it will somewhat be equivalent for any position because of their game knowledge.

Kythers1/18/2019, 3:28:47 AM1 votes

glad i'll be able to play other roels in solo queue I usually do fine on ADC at my MMR, but other roles I'm much much worse