Spellthief's Edge isn't healthy or necessary in League of Legends

ModKnightsKemplar·1/4/2019, 9:08:01 PM·8 votes·14,725 views

(All stats shared are from global, plat+ ranked data on lolalytics)

Let me lay out some data for you. In examining the problem with Spellthief's Edge, I think Enchanters are an illustrative example. In theory, Ancient Coin is a fine item for these champions. In practice, it does not work nearly as well as Spellthief's Edge. In the top 10 champs, sorted by tier, there are 4 enchanters (Soraka, Janna, Nami, and Sona). This is a big upswing from the last patch due to buffs for enchanter items (Forbidden Idol and its upgrades). But there is little tension between building Coin or Spellthief's on those champions. All of them perform better on Spellthief's than Coin, with an average win rate improvement of 3.86% (standard deviation is 0.77). Nami gets a whopping 5.6% win rate boost just from picking Spellthief's over Coin.

Of course, this problem is bigger than just enchanters. 8/10 of the top champions, sorted by tier, build Spellthief's as their gold gen item. Whether you sort by win rate, Pick/Ban influence, or pick rate, the majority of the top ten champions in each of those categories are Spellthief's users. Champions like Zyra and Brand, at first, were kind of refreshing to see bot lane because they were new and different. Now, many old players recognize this poke-centered bot lane meta as a key contributor to the feeling of excessive damage present in League.

Hopefully, at this point, I've convinced you that there's a problem with the item. Otherwise, Ancient Coin might be useful on champions other than Thresh and Blitzcrank (Blitz, notably, is equally effective on Relic Shield and Ancient Coin). While the numbers do a great job of establishing the issue, what I want to talk about is why it's a problem. Let's talk about Spellthief's mechanics.

On true mages, Spellthief's provides a "win more" mechanic in a way that the other two gold items simply don't. If you're a mage and you poke well, you get gold and you push the enemy out of lane. If you can't poke successfully, you're out lane pressure and gold, making it tough to come back. You don't have a lot of utility to do anything from behind on Zyra and Brand.

As bad as I think that is, though, I find Spellthief's on enchanters even more damning. When Soraka builds Spellthief's, the most successful way to play is to aggressively poke an enemy down try to secure kills. That's a problematic playstyle that clashes badly with Soraka's champion identity, imo. Enchanters have been pushed in a direction that makes them more interactive in the last several years. Soraka needs to poke to maximize her heals. Janna got W buffs and a passive change that encourages trading. I like the interactivity, but I don't like the damage that Soraka can do now. It dilutes the experience of playing an enchanter to put that much power into their poke. There are other problems under the hood there, perhaps, but Spellthief's is a definite contributor.

I understand the design principle here. Spellthief's forces interaction. But, in practice, it leads to a stressful laning experience rather than a few tense moments brought about by that interaction. The team with more kill pressure wins, because there are so few defensive options. That's why everyone complains about League's damage.

I actually got the idea to write about this because of Nexus Blitz. Someone at Riot must understand this, because there is no Spellthief's alternative on Nexus Blitz. Targon's and Coin have their alternatives in Nexus Blitz, and I have had a blast playing support there. When the opponent does have a mage support in lane, they have to sacrifice either their gold gen or some AP. That's fair for how much pressure they exert. I had a fun Vel'Koz game where I did a non-oppressive amount of damage after building Philosopher's Medallion for laning. That game, I had this stunning realization that AP supports can be fun when they aren't blowing you up with two spell rotations. I was creating space for my marksman and applying cc for my team, rather than racking up kills and stacking my mejai's, at least during laning. Later I had damage and did exactly what you would expect Vel'Koz to do, but I wasn't an oppressive laner, and that's a big deal to me. There's a reason that League of Legends: Season 2 didn't have a gold gen item that gave AP.

The easy conclusion is to delete Spellthief's. I am sure there are alternative answers to the problem, but I see little redeeming value to Spellthief's in its current form.

Got another perspective? Think a small tuning adjustment would fix it entirely? Please comment! I would love to see other's thoughts on the issue.

38 Comments

ModUlanopo1/7/2019, 3:57:02 AM6 votes

You can't have it both ways. Enchanters either need to do poke damage or they need to "support" better, whether that means increased control or increased healing/shielding, both of which Riot has determined to be anti-fun. With the latter, Riot basically killed the fantasy of being able to keep your team alive.

Riot has explicitly decided that fights need to resolve quickly and decisively. That being the case, why shouldn't enchanters get in on the fun?

Hibeki1/5/2019, 1:44:27 AM5 votes

Honestly surprised its taking people this long to see why mage supports are broken

item 3098

Ive been saying for seasons on end, that 22 gp 10 (highest the game has ever seen), extra burst damage, on top of a 120% gold efficient item with all desireable stats has been busted

but people thought "oh janna builds coin so its not busted right?" Literally no active bot laners but rekan and thresh build anything other than frostfang.

Its written on the item. "This item does everything you want it to, has the best gp10 in league history and gives you more stats in gold than you purchased"

Even when gp10 was meta, Philo stone, heart of gold and gp10 runes still wouldnt add up to 22gp10, and thats in a meta where you had to BUY wards.

Bladerunner77771/6/2019, 12:24:12 AM4 votes

I disagree with most of your points and your assessment of healthy gameplay, however I am only going to comment on this:

Nami gets a whopping 5.6% win rate boost just from picking Spellthief's over Coin.

Coin on Nami is a terrible idea in every circumstance. Even when coin was extremely overpowered maybe a year ago, Nami players still opted for Spellthief's because she could complete the quest at roughly the same speed as the coin supports. She could get better stats and a more synergistic passive as well from the completed quest (frostfang used to give movement speed).

If you're playing Nami and you're not constantly harassing in lane, you are not playing Nami correctly. "Playing passive" should not be a viable option for Nami players to win lane.

And, even though I said I wasn't gonna get too into this:

Playing coin on supports is not fun nor interactive

Coin meta several months back was proof to anyone playing bot lane at the time that Ancient Coin starts on both supports in a lane is excruciating. Those were some of the most frustrating times I can remember as a League-player (2nd only to the Cinderhulk meta of Season 5).

Coin isn't fun, nor will it ever be by design. And if videogames aren't fun to play, then what's the point? Coin should continue to exist as an option for niche supports like Thresh (who cannot utilize relic shield) and other niche strategies/champions, but it should by no means be "pushed" for by Riot to "spice things up" (because it would not have that effect, at all).

ModThe Djinn1/4/2019, 11:35:29 PM4 votes

{quoted}Hopefully, at this point, I've convinced you that there's a problem with the item.

You've convinced me there's a problem with Support itemization, but not necessarily that the issue is with Spellthief's specifically, as it might be that the others aren't tuned sufficiently vs. Spellthief's.

I understand the design principle here. Spellthief's forces interaction. But, in practice, it leads to a stressful laning experience rather than a few tense moments brought about by that interaction. The team with more kill pressure wins, because there are so few defensive options. That's why everyone complains about League's damage.

This makes it seem like the issue isn't Spellthief's specifically, but rather the AP it grants. The mechanic seems fine -- even healthier than Targon's or Coin, perhaps -- as it encourages interaction. I can see the argument that it grants kill lanes too much power though, as it provides mages with the two things they want: AP and mana regeneration.

I actually got the idea to write about this because of Nexus Blitz. Someone at Riot must understand this, because there is no Spellthief's alternative on Nexus Blitz.

Potential counter-argument: killing minions is something everyone does on Nexus Blitz, and that shuts down Spellthief's gold generation. Rather than add an exception to that item's functionality, it makes a bit more sense, to me, to simply remove it as an option.


Personally, my initial exploration into this would be to consider whether or not there are other things you could do with the item that would appeal to similar characters without giving as much early power. Something like a small mana restoration upon using a charge instead of constantly providing an increase, or limiting the AP to the final item (Frost Queens) rather than giving it earlier, or simply removing the bonus damage from the proc effect.

Still, I do think there's something to be said for how good the item feels, so I'd worry about cutting too much power. It does have a much more satisfying feedback loop than Ancient Coin or Targon's, and I think that's a strong reason behind finding ways to adjust it while keeping that good feeling.

SanKakU1/28/2019, 11:36:30 AM3 votes

Just make Spellthief's Edge give shielding and healing power stat instead of AP.

TomiMan71/20/2019, 8:54:11 PM3 votes

All of them perform better on Spellthief's than Coin, with an average win rate improvement of 3.86% (standard deviation is 0.77). Nami gets a whopping 5.6% win rate boost just from picking Spellthief's over Coin.

So is spellthiefs too good or coin is just sh*t? (The 2nd one)

Enchanters have been pushed in a direction that makes them more interactive in the last several years.

Yes cos AFKing and pressing shield/heal every once in a while is good right? No, its not. Its boring, its unhealty, it has no interaction with the enemy.

I understand the design principle here. Spellthief's forces interaction. But, in practice, it leads to a stressful laning experience rather than a few tense moments brought about by that interaction.

Bot lane, or every lane for that matter is not there for you to just farm for 15 minutes then have some teamfights and end. Thats the reason why we had the mage mana change to force some interaction between the laners instead of waveclearing 24/7.

When the opponent does have a mage support in lane, they have to sacrifice either their gold gen or some AP

There is no "real" support in Blitz. You dont need to have gold gen item, since as long as your team farms you get gold from that too, and that gold is much much more than what a traditional gold gen item gives you.

The easy conclusion is to delete Spellthief's.

Lol.

Moonscourge1/5/2019, 12:34:35 PM2 votes

They should just remove the flat damage on it, or bring it way down to maybe 5 per proc at most. 15 damage for free is like having 50 AP or something for those hits.

chipndip11/18/2019, 4:16:54 AM2 votes

When you suggest that support be balanced around coin instead of Spellthief, you're suggesting that supports be reduced to season 7 standards.

Spellthief's is the main way to promote interaction where enchanter champions will otherwise just sit around waiting for laning to end. If you have a better idea, that's a starting off point, but coin is a really crummy item in and of itself. It's actually worse than STE.

5050BS1/15/2019, 10:58:02 PM2 votes

Anything to get Zyra back to the midlane where she belongs.

FixHealsRemoveGW2/16/2019, 1:08:04 PM1 votes

That's a problematic playstyle that clashes badly with Soraka's champion identity, imo.

OK dude wait a second there, Soraka got the special Riot treatment, because players can't handle getting outhealed and they wanted Soraka to be more interactive. The result is obvious. Playing aggressive is more effective, not because of spellthief, but because of her design. Spellthief is just a convenient item, that you buy because it suits the playstyle and sometimes you still go coin when the match up demands that you play more reactive.

You can say that Sorakas current design doesn't really match her identity, but that has absolutely nothing to do with spellthief.

Spellthief vs Coin is always a tactical choice, I don't really get this thread. Spellthief isn't the reason that you poke in botlane, it's what you buy because you meant to do that anyway, because your champion just works like that.

Janna kinda got the same treatment (making her more interactive) except that she is still trash at poking or trading so coin is still better most of the time.

ilikecookies11/6/2019, 2:30:39 PM1 votes

Tbh spellthief edge shouldn't be well deleted from the game but nerf is required to it because it is bit harsh especially if your team has support Xerath like yeah it no fun at all to fight against cause it constant harass from the support. but the reason why it just overall does so well is the fact that it doesn't need much effort. If you compare the coin item 3301 and spellthief item 3303 which makes more gold? suprisingly spellthief and that just cause the fact that with the coin it a chance of gettin Gold or mana token as for spell thief you get 10 gold per spell cast meaning if your sona who has a large range for her Q your always getting 10 gold ever 10 seconds or less then upgrade both them item 3098 item 3096 you got one that has a chance of dropping a gold token worth 45 or getting 20-60 gold per spell cast ever 30 seconds. the only difference between the coin and spellthief is the fact that the coin you can kill minion and earn tribute as for spellthief that a not until you complete the quest

Tuition Fee1/8/2019, 3:00:18 AM1 votes

Support is already such an unpopular role. Please do not nerf it even more.

NoIWontBuySkins1/9/2019, 8:46:13 PM1 votes

You obviously haven't been one shot by ADC all day playing as a Mage. Most games don't go far enough due to Yas, Jax, Yayen etc etc etc

CoolKnightST1/14/2019, 3:36:16 PM1 votes

I actually agrea that item 3303 should be concidered to be removed but only if item 3301 would get reworked as well:

What should happen is that item 3301 would undergo some stat changes. I give an example:

item 3301 Ancient Coin (rework)

  • Stats: +10 AD/AP (adaptive), +5% Cooldown Reduction, +2 gold / 10 seconds,
  • Passive: Favor: Unchanged
  • Build into: item 3096 (+ item 1006 + 300g)

item 3096 Normad's Medallion (rework)

  • Stats: +20 AD/AP (adaptive), +50% Base Healh regen, +10% Cooldown Reduction, +2 gold / 10 seconds,
  • Passive: Favor: Unchanged
  • Build into: item 3096 (+ item 1028 + 250g)

item 3069 Remnant of the Ascended (rework)

  • Stats: +200 Health, +40 AD/AP (adaptive), +125% Base Healh regen, +10% Cooldown Reduction, +2 gold / 10 seconds,
  • Passive: Favor: Unchanged

Than spellthiefs could be reworked into an hunting item similar to the old spellthiefs quest rewards where you get 3 stacks and for every stack you gain a small burst of movementspeed. This could be an active of some sort and the buildpath itself could vary with componements like item 3136 , item 3916, item 3113, item 3057, item 3108, etc...

The Bad Touch1/23/2019, 2:51:16 PM1 votes

I vote we remove sup items, bring back Philo stone and heart of gold, and bring back buying wards,

Why? So we can get these god damn mages out of bot lane.

Gunnerkreig2/12/2019, 8:07:23 PM1 votes

I can think of two things that would make sense and still allow mage supports to be played. What about capping the gold you can get from spellthiefs, or taking one ward away? (disclaimer, doing both would probably be overkill)

I like mage supports, for all the reasons you mentioned (more interactive, increases champ variety bot, etc). I don't think removing their item is the correct solution. I think that mage supports should be playable, and an AP + cdr + mana regen item is necessary on mages. But I think removing one ward from the maximum on the upgrade is a fair tradeoff - more damage/fighting power for you and your team, at the cost of utility and vision.

In regards to the gold generation part of Spellthief's, your point that rewarding gold for poking is a "win more" mechanic is spot on... but it's also true that the entire game is designed around the idea that winning one battle should give you an advantage on the next. When an assassin gets a kill in lane, it puts him ahead of his opponent and makes it easier to kill them the next time (which you counter by playing more safely, and trying to out-scale). The issue I have with Spellthiefs is that it is so strong AFTER lane/quest completion (which is why no-farm spellthief's zilean top is now a thing). I think an item that maximizes a mage support's ability to win lane and snowball is fine - but early power is supposed to sacrifice scaling. If you nerf the gold gen after lane by capping it, you still give the mages the opportunity to snowball early, but at least it won't be so easy for them to keep buying big damage items unless they are still getting kills and assists. I think it's pretty bullshit that I see a full rabadons more on mage supports than on actual mages.

Śhunpo2/13/2019, 1:31:01 AM1 votes

I think that all gold generating items need to go. The alternative to this is to bring back Philosopher's Stone, Kage's and Avarice Blade, to which I'd say, I'm down for that.

ModThe Djinn1/4/2019, 11:13:12 PM1 votes

Approved.