Bounties are a good idea, but they need to fall off

Hyrum Graff·1/17/2019, 7:00:52 PM·15 votes·8,799 views

League needs comeback mechanics because it has snowballing. Getting an early lead makes it easier for you to bully your opponent and get a bigger lead; without shutdowns, getting a kill when behind is not only harder, but also less rewarding (than the initial kill), because the enemy still has the advantages they built with their lead.

Example 1: Imagine if you were playing football (soccer), but there's a new rule: every time you score a goal, Your team gets to have one more player on the field. Whoever gets the first goal can likely take advantage of their extra player to score more goals. Even if the losing team gets a goal (which is now harder), they're still behind from the goals gained using that initial advantage, and it's really unlikely they'll ever come back.

Example 2: Now let's look at a game with snowballing: capture the flag. When your teammate gets caught, it gives the enemy a numbers advantage, making things harder for you to capture the flag and harder to free your teammates from jail. However, the more of your team is captured (the more behind you are), the bigger the reward is for setting people free from jail. (Some variants have an additional comeback mechanic of allowing prisoners to link arms and extend out of jail, making a jailbreak from behind easier.)

Bounties in League are the same thing. We can argue about whether they're tuned correctly, but without them, comebacks would be incredibly difficult and most games would feel over in 5-10 minutes. However, there's a problem: the point of bounties is to make it easier to come back from behind, but if you come back in a different way, bounties persist even though you're no longer behind.

Say your team got an early lead, and got a few bounties. But then, the enemy team sneaks Herald, gets a bunch of turret plates with it, and picks up a non-shutdown kill or two along the way, bringing the gold back to near-even. At this point, the game isn't actually even, it's enemy-favored, because you still have bounties to lose.

I can see the replies already:

It's your team's fault for not using your advantage to get vision on Herald and avoid the dive.

You're right. My team screwed up, and the enemy deserves their comeback. However, my team doesn't deserve to have the enemy team's comeback mechanic turned into a snowball mechanic against us.

League had this exact problem before (proxy Singed). There's another anti-snowball mechanic in the other end of bounties: When you die repeatedly, you become worth less gold, so the enemy can't get an insurmountable advantage from chain killing you. To ensure this mechanic only works for comebacks, your worth is reset when you get a kill. Proxy Singed abused this: when he died a lot, he'd take advantage of the catchup mechanic (reduced bounty), but he wouldn't actually be behind, since he was still getting plenty of gold from cs and you were giving up cs in order to kill him.

Riot solved the catchup mechanic abuse by making reduced bounty protection smarter: now, csing will gradually bring your bounty back up to 300. We can fix the bounty problem the same way, by making bounties fall off when you're no longer in the lead.

There's multiple ways to make bounties fall off. Here's two ideas; I'm sure we'll refine them or think of better ones in the comments. Also, they are not mutually exclusive; it might make sense to do both, with adjusted numbers. Speaking of which, as always, numbers are rough estimates, subject to change.

  • When you have a bounty, it is reduced by 50 every 5 minutes. This timer resets each time the bounty increases. Bounty reduction cannot happen in combat.
  • When you get a shutdown on an enemy, reduce each other enemy bounty by 50. Gain 25 additional gold for each bounty reduced this way.

21 Comments

iron4playa1/25/2019, 10:31:44 AM3 votes

bounties are fine

Inkling Commando1/21/2019, 9:00:59 PM2 votes

no. bounties need to not have a cap. they need to go over 1000. a 21/0 MasterYi is worth more than 1000 gold. a 17/1 Jhin is worth more than 1000 gold. and a 24/3 Yasuo is worth more than 1000 gold. it is almost not worth it to shut them up. say you do manage to kill them. "yay good job. here is 1000 gold. now fuck off" "but, they are worth more than that" "yes. you can get more after you kill them again." it is better to avoid them then try to shut them up three times when you know damn well they can back hand you and one shot you.

The Bad Touch1/21/2019, 1:14:39 PM2 votes

Personally I disagree with bounties entirely. It's just more gold in the game to blow people up with.

Playing league these days just feels like a rush to get to the point where everyone blows up, one fight is lost in 3 seconds and 3 towers inhib and nexus die before anyone respawns.

Also bounties are about as fun as plot armor in anime. The better team SHOULD win. Losing because the 130 CS Vayne 30 minutes in gets 2 kills and suddenly is "fed" feels terrible.

The team that makes the most mistakes should lose. Not the team that makes the last mistake.

Take jungle for example. Say you are having an excellent jungle game vs an enemy Nocturne. You are getting ganks off. Your stealing his camps. He's not doing much of anything. Your bot lane is rolling well. Bot win another fight but it's a bit close. Nocturne presses r r q and gets a double. Suddenly going up over 2k gold and snags the tower + some lane CS.

Literally everything you did that game is now worthless. Nocturne will delete your adc for the rest of the game.

Wicked FlamezZ1/20/2019, 9:03:12 PM1 votes

Instead of just bandaging the snowballing issue by artificially snowballing the other team too by giving them gold, how about they fix the snowball issue? This "solution" isn't fixing snowballing, it's just creating artificial snowballs throughout the game trying to counter-balance an already flawed system instead of fixing the flaw. You get way too much dmg per gold in current league of legends which creates a feedback loop to seemingly endlessly continue using damage to generate gold that generates dmg that generates gold at a rate that is very hard to shut down in a solo queue environment.

Rule of thumb, killing the same guy in your lane shouldn't give you the power to 1 shot the 4 other teammate's at the same time.

SpaghettiVase1/22/2019, 5:25:08 AM1 votes

Not only should bounties fall off from time, but I believe that they should also be decreased based on how rapidly one person claims them in a certain amount of time. 3 bounties in a short amount of time isn't hard to claim on most meta champions which leads to some insane snowball early if the enemy is just doing well in farm, it's not hard for junglers or roaming midlaners to claim these. I think bounty gold should be reduced by 25% each time an additional bounty is picked up past the first one if obtained by the same champion within the same minute.

UKP LK1/23/2019, 6:37:34 AM1 votes

when ur too fed but ur team is inting, so enemy team end up earrning 2k gold on theirr semi fed champ and just snowball out of control when ur the only one holding D GATE !

Hyrum Graff1/17/2019, 7:01:43 PM1 votes

Posting this part in a comment because it made the original post into a wall of text:

The reasoning for the first idea is that if you're not pushing your lead, the game is actually getting closer. An X gold lead at 15 minutes is worth a lot more than an X gold lead at 35 minutes. So, the losing team doesn't need quite as much help coming back, even if they haven't "made a comeback."

The reason for the second one is a bit complicated, but overall the idea is to better reflect what's happening in other lanes. Let's break it down:

  • You can only get bounties from csing if your cs is up compared to the average of the enemy team's cs in the same time period.
  • If multiple people on your team have bounties, your team is probably winning hard, and the enemy team's average cs is probably low. That is, your team's performance can add to your bounty.
  • If the enemy gets some shutdowns in other lanes, they've caught up a bit, but you still have the bounty from when they were csing poorly, even if your lane opponent wasn't csing poorly.
    • This is what the change is intended to fix.
  • The 25g extra bit is to balance things out in the other direction. If all lanes are losing, one shutdown probably isn't going to swing the game all that much (even if one lane is caught up, it's hard to create any sort of momentum when other lanes are losing). So, it's also good to make that shutdown a little stronger.
  • This could be visualized on the scoreboard as a shared/team bounty instead of stealing some of other players bounties. So if right now there are 3 bounties -- 450, 500, and 650 gold -- instead it would show 400, 450, and 600 gold bounties with a 100 gold bounty for any shutdown. Then I get a showdown on the 400 gold player and the scoreboard updates to 450 and 550 with 75 shared.
Vekkna1/28/2019, 11:39:04 PM1 votes

I don't know what the exact problem is with bounties, but there was a moment yesterday in which a Graves on my team was ~ 1/6/4 with a CS deficit to the enemy laner, and Graves gave up a bounty when he was killed.

My team was very far behind at that stage in the game. Graves was shit-stomped in lane and ended 1/8/8. How the fuck is he giving up a bounty under those circumstances? I can't even begin to explain how that happens.

ModThe Djinn1/19/2019, 1:20:16 AM1 votes

Approved.

nfzeta1/20/2019, 6:59:14 PM1 votes

I agree with the reasonings behind things but honestly the biggest problem right now is that bounties flow over in a perfect 1:1 ratio. Basically, after the bounty caps at 1000g the flow over bounties should be halved. The 150g to 75g, the 450g to 225g etc etc.

While I agree with comeback mechanics as a feature you should also be rewarded for doing that much without falling to them, making defensive and gradual extension or holding a lead waiting for opportunities a valid strategy when you aren't up against a scaling team as an early game one. In fact I could take your first suggestion a bit further and make it so if you've had a flow over bounty for more than 7-8 minutes it disappears and you're only left with the base 1000g bounty.

As for tweaking that first suggestion I think the time should be lowered to 3 minutes and bounty lowered by 75g each time. 5 minutes is a LONG time in a league match, its potentially a quarter of the match for 20min games. I don't think this could be implemented along with my bounty overflow suggestion though, seems like too much.