I find that MF's Love Tap is unhealthy for several reasons and should be changed

Busty Demoness·Aug 21, 2018·36 votes·34,424 views

For starters, it means she needs to be treated as a burst ADC which her kit doesn't accurately support. It also means that she abuses Lethality and its items, which were never intended for marksmen in the first place. MF has become notorious for one-shotting enemies simply for landing a Q bounce without the crit due to duskblade's passive damage. Lastly, it becomes unhealthy design as it gates her ability to deal continuous damage over time with her autos, becoming preferable to go for huge damage single autos that ultimately can't be effectively stopped.

So, all that said, I suggest she gets a reworked version of Impure Shots for her passive. I realize that Love Tap procs are tied to some of her balance regarding W, and I will take that into account with the full explanation.

Impure Shots: Miss Fortune's abilities and auto attacks deal additional magic damage (scaling with AP), dealing additional damage per stack and stacking up to 5 times. Critical Strikes apply 3 stacks and double the damage dealt.

Strut: On Hit: The cooldown for this skill is reduced based on the number of Impure Shots stacks on a target. (0.2 seconds for 1 stack, 1 second for 5 stacks)

What these changes do is not only give her more reason to build critical, but it opens up her build paths while killing a big chunk of her reliance on lethality. Additionally, it gives her added reason to simply focus a target with her autos, like most marksmen are intended to do.

The numbers are more for show but hopefully this concept feels solid.

47 Comments

Hexs FortuneAug 22, 201830 votes

Love tap came about back during the Marksmen update, with the desire to bring distinctiveness to the various ADC at the time. Love tap added a small bit of mechanical complexity to MissFortune and strengthened her team fight niche.

Love tap benefits from rapidly swapping targets and really shines in situations with multiple enemies. Riot intentionally lowered MF's base and scaling AD to the lowest of her class in order to compensate for love tap's upfront burst. **The end result being that MF is weaker in sustained damage compared to other ADC with similar items, but offers more upfront burst and shines with multiple targets. **
Given is an immobile ADC with no hard cc, no hard engage, no stealth and no "defensive get out of jail free cards", I feel her power budget can accommodate high amounts of raw damage.
I personally enjoy the fact that MF excels in burst and has a target swapping playstyle. It makes her mechanically unique and works thematically with her ricochet Q and spread damage R

I feel going back to the old impure shots and getting rid of love tap would dull MF's uniqueness and bring her back towards more generic playstyles. I also believe Riot intentionally stripped MissFortune of the stacking damage due to it not really meshing well with the rest of her kit.

Miss Fortune has never been a "sticky" champ and lacks the necessary mobility to enable a constantly stacking bonus damage buff on a single target. MF self roots while ulting, has no dashes and wields a situational move speed buff that is immediately removed from most forms of damage.

On a parting note, I've always preferred Crit MF to Lethality MF, I'd rather use her entire kit than double down on armor pen and become an ult bot. Currently, I'm finding more success with crit based builds than lethality and feel there are less disruptive ways to guide MF players towards crit over lethality, if that is the goal.

MF has crit ratios on half of her kit at this point. If Riot really wanted to kill off full lethality MF, they could simply tweak the kit's numbers to benefit more from builds featuring copious amounts of crit. That said, I believe Riot prefers to keep MF in a state where she can opt to choose between either crit or lethality.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-22T02:21:45.986+0000)

Love tap came about back during the Marksmen update, with the desire to bring distinctness to the various ADC at the time. Love tap added a small bit of mechanical complexity to and strengthened her team fight niche.

Love tap benefits from rapidly swapping targets and really shines in situations with multiple enemies. Riot intentionally lowered MF's base and scaling AD to the lowest of her class in order to compensate for love tap's upfront burst. The end result being that MF is weaker in sustained damage compared to other ADC with similar items, but offers more upfront burst and shines with multiple targets.

Given is an Immobile ADC with no hard cc, no hard engage, no stealth and no "defensive get out of jail free cards", I feel her power budget can accommodate more raw damage.

I personally enjoy fact that MF excels in burst and has a target swapping playstyle. It makes her mechanically unique and works thematically with her ricochet Q and spread damage R

Sadly, that same power budget is reduced because of her interactions with Duskblade and Lethality in general.

I understand how you feel target swapping is an interesting mechanic; but on a Marksman, it doesn't particularly fit. Especially since it means her ability to burn down a single target suffers greatly. For an immobile ADC, that means she's much more easy prey.

I disagree on "working thematically with her R", because I feel it's quite the opposite. It might share the notion that it's better with multiple targets, but that's all it really shares in the end. It makes her Q much more punishing when she lands a ricochet, and that's good for the purposes of skill expression, but it loses impact when you consider that lethality items offer much more reward than intended.

Keep in mind, as it currently stands the mechanic isn't rewarding her for switching targets in combat. It's rewarding her for loading everything into one shot. And for the purposes of her meta, along with the general meta, it's unhealthy design.

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 22, 20182 votes

This may be just me, but I have never seen a Miss Fortune 'target swap'. I have played in elos from silver to Diamond and most of the time the Miss Fortune is just randomly hitting the closest thing (silver-ish) or focusing a priority target that is highly dangerous if left alone (Plat+). Moreover, imagine a scenario where you are a Miss Fortune and a team fight starts. The mage and the enemy support are very far back (way out of your auto range), the tank (which you will not focus) is upfront with the melee assassin/ fighter lastly the enemy adc is around mid range, close enough for you to hit if you move forward. I realize fights are never this clear cut, but if your ultimate is down or it is not useful to use at the moment, your gonna be focusing down the enemy ADC or potentially kiting to reach the enemy mage in order to eliminate them to stop their damage. (This is taking into account your support/ tank is peeling the assassin/fighter). In what world are you going to AA the enemy ADC then move forward (or wherever) to hit the enemy mage, then move all the way back to hit the enemy ADC? This is as clear cut as it comes, this doesn't take into account your gonna be taking return fire, CC, the enemy champions are frantically moving etc.

Hexs FortuneAug 22, 20184 votes

{quoted}

This may be just me, but I have never seen a Miss Fortune 'target swap'. I have played in elos from silver to Diamond and most of the time the Miss Fortune is just randomly hitting the closest thing (silver-ish) or focusing a priority target that is highly dangerous if left alone (Plat+). Moreover, imagine a scenario where you are a Miss Fortune and a team fight starts. The mage and the enemy support are very far back (way out of your auto range), the tank (which you will not focus) is upfront with the melee assassin/ fighter lastly the enemy adc is around mid range, close enough for you to hit if you move forward. I realize fights are never this clear cut, but if your ultimate is down or it is not useful to use at the moment, your gonna be focusing down the enemy ADC or potentially kiting to reach the enemy mage in order to eliminate them to stop their damage. (This is taking into account your support/ tank is peeling the assassin/fighter). In what world are you going to AA the enemy ADC then move forward (or wherever) to hit the enemy mage, then move all the way back to hit the enemy ADC? This is as clear cut as it comes, this doesn't take into account your gonna be taking return fire, CC, the enemy champions are frantically moving etc.

As an MF player my number one priority isn't taking out the enemy squishes, it's positioning properly and supporting my team with a constant influx of dps from the backline.

Target swapping happens in many situations and calls on the awareness of the marksman to switch back and forth between the enemy frontline and squishier targets as the team fight progresses.

You don't need to force it, just keep it in mind through various situations. In your example say the enemy adc flashes out, you can risk exposing yourself and overextend to hit him once more or line up a double up through his tank for the bonus love tap damage, or you can swap to the enemy mage without escapes and treat her to a love tap enhanced auto.

Linna ExcelAug 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-22T02:21:45.986+0000)

I personally enjoy fact that MF excels in burst and has a target swapping playstyle

This is the worst thing about her IMO. It's a very weird mechanic that work okay for a little poke, but it's bad for extended trades. I think impure shots was better because an ADC really should focus on one target at a time and MF is forced to keep switching if she wants to maximize the bonus. It's an extremely limited mechanic that cripples her outside of short trades during laning.

StrutAug 23, 20181 votes

I wouldn't go so far as to say it 'cripples' her outside of laning. She's always been a lane bully / mid game powerhouse and her lowered damage when continuously hitting the same target is offset by her AAA Teamfight Ultimate. Her ultimate makes it okay for her autos to do less in extended trades / teamfights. Her playstyle with her autos is radically different from most other marksmen, and changing her playstyle to fit the others just because its different would be doing her a massive disservice.

Laughing FishAug 22, 20188 votes

This would allow more variety to her build path too, bringing back hybrid fortune

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-22T01:48:16.886+0000)

This would allow more variety to her build path too, bringing back hybrid fortune

That was mentioned, and it even allows some full AP auto attacker builds (like with Nashor's Tooth and Wit's End).

Laughing FishAug 22, 20184 votes

Ah I used to love AP fortune back in the day. If that were her passive then rageblade would be pretty good as well, combine it with Nashor's tooth for the AA's. Or maybe a Luden's echo + Liandra's Torment for extra poke with make it rain, and Mage Fortune could relieve her glory days.

GreatWhiteNorthAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-22T01:50:32.813+0000)

That was mentioned, and it even allows some full AP auto attacker builds (like with Nashor's Tooth and Wit's End).

Too bad zephyr's item 3172 was removed Would have been cool on her, modified in that way.

TrikzterzArmaAug 22, 20185 votes

THIS. As a MF main, I enjoyed her alot more before her minirework

Inkling CommandoAug 22, 20184 votes

as a m7 MF your idea of changing her current passive (which uses AD) to something that uses AP and is the opposite of what Lovetap does, is complete bullshit. MF doesn't even rely on lethality. she is a pure AD and maybe crit but you need to devote to it unlike Cait. the only good thing her Lovetap is good for is clearing a cluster of minions with enough AD (since Lovetap does less to minions) and each trigger of Lovetap (which requires a new target each time) reduces Strut's CD by 20%, regardless of it's current CD. making MF use AP for her passive will break her more than you imagine. with her kit now, her passive, Q and Ult use AD while her E and Ult use AP (her ult calculates both stats but the dmg is physical). and her E is more meant for slow down than actual dmg. plus with PtA and Strut she'll have enough atk spd and ms to kite and do the same amount of dmg this so called "impure shots" can do. so to put it short, this "Impure Shots" idea is bullshit.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goblin Marksman,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-08-22T20:13:52.680+0000)

as a m7 MF your idea of changing her current passive (which uses AD) to something that uses AP and is the opposite of what Lovetap does, is complete bullshit. MF doesn't even rely on lethality. she is a pure AD and maybe crit but you need to devote to it unlike Cait. the only good thing her Lovetap is good for is clearing a cluster of minions with enough AD (since Lovetap does less to minions) and each trigger of Lovetap (which requires a new target each time) reduces Strut's CD by 20%, regardless of it's current CD. making MF use AP for her passive will break her more than you imagine. with her kit now, her passive, Q and Ult use AD while her E and Ult use AP (her ult calculates both stats but the dmg is physical). and her E is more meant for slow down than actual dmg. plus with PtA and Strut she'll have enough atk spd and ms to kite and do the same amount of dmg this so called "impure shots" can do. so to put it short, this "Impure Shots" idea is bullshit.

One, I am also an M7 MF main and I'm sitting on over 1 million mastery points. It means jack when it comes to whether or not I see good design or bad.

Two, the whole point was to break her meta strategy of "load everything into an auto that most champions can't do jack about", which DOES rely on lethality because of Duskblade proc. And that meta strategy is inherently unhealthy.

Three, her love tap deals full damage to non-minions. At level 1, it's equal to her total AD and it only scales higher with level. That means she's getting double+ auto damage on her first attack against a target as long as it's not a minion.

Turning her passive to AP means two core things. First, her base AD will need to be buffed to a reasonable number to compensate. (This was also taken into account with the passive rework idea.) Second, it rewards her for landing her skills well in all cases while also giving her incentive to stick to her target. It's less about having everything front loaded and doesn't eliminate her burst, just focuses it into her R and rewarding her for using her E R combo well.

Inkling CommandoAug 22, 20181 votes

dude, if you want an "Impure Shots" ability just use PtA. it does the same thing but with adaptive dmg and with mf being mostly AD she gets extra AD on the target. and yes. it does full to NON-minions. i am saying it does less to minions. giving MF AP is as bad as giving Ashe crit when her crits do no extra dmg. plus her R is already strong enough if you have allot of AD (i got it at i think up to 6000 one time) and mf has no use for lethality cause her super high AD would breakthrough the target's armor. a max out doubletap with high AD would equal maybe 400 (just using a semi-reasonable number) and target has enough armor to ignore 40% dmg. so Doubletap still does 240 dmg not counting lovetap or any crits.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goblin Marksman,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-08-22T21:38:22.356+0000)

dude, if you want an "Impure Shots" ability just use PtA. it does the same thing but with adaptive dmg and with mf being mostly AD she gets extra AD on the target. and yes. it does full to NON-minions. i am saying it does less to minions. giving MF AP is as bad as giving Ashe crit when her crits do no extra dmg. plus her R is already strong enough if you have allot of AD (i got it at i think up to 6000 one time) and mf has no use for lethality cause her super high AD would breakthrough the target's armor. a max out doubletap with high AD would equal maybe 400 (just using a semi-reasonable number) and target has enough armor to ignore 40% dmg. so Doubletap still does 240 dmg not counting lovetap or any crits.

I feel like you're missing the entire point of this thread.

The design of Love Tap is unhealthy as it stands. It encourages an unhealthy meta for her (one that deserves hard nerfs) and does not fit well with anything but her Q.

Inkling CommandoAug 23, 20181 votes

since when has the meta EVER been healthy? with riot constantly buffing, nerfing, changing, updating, etc, there is no set way the meta should be because it always changing. you may say her Love Tap is bad now but it may end up good in another patch or two. or may end up becoming good cause every other champ got changed when they shouldn't be.

Busty DemonessAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goblin Marksman,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T00:05:09.499+0000)

since when has the meta EVER been healthy? with riot constantly buffing, nerfing, changing, updating, etc, there is no set way the meta should be because it always changing. you may say her Love Tap is bad now but it may end up good in another patch or two. or may end up becoming good cause every other champ got changed when they shouldn't be.

It was reasonably healthy in Seasons 3 and 4. Sure, there were outliers, but none were anything as extreme as what we've seen these past 3 seasons.

Plus, that doesn't change that as a design it's unhealthy. In some games, everyone gets killed in one shot. But those games are balanced around that, making you capable of dodging or otherwise leading to outplaying your opponent. These games are very mechanically skill based and lead to a much more even playing field.

Other games rely on you using your tools tactically to get the advantage (League falls under this), and you're rewarded for using your tools in smart ways that exploit openings. For League, how is it healthy when it's all about whether you've loaded up enough damage to kill the target just because you saw him first? How is it healthy to give one champion multiple basic uses for each skill? A great example of that latter question is Thresh, who ruled the bot lane on release as THE strongest support. He had two+ uses on EVERYTHING in his kit, all of them very straightforward in being used. There wasn't any need to be fancy about using any of his skills to get them to function. Diana has an example of skill expression that requires knowledge of her kit; where you Q a target, R to it, then R to a fleeing champion to catch him. It's a much more fancy version of Old Fiora using her Q to one target then Q to her intended target.

The point I'm making is that by design, Love Tap is unhealthy even though it's good in this meta. The other issue is that the meta itself has been unhealthy with so much damage loaded into everything, leading to less actual skill expression and more cases of "who got 3 kills first?"

Sexy Jack RabbitAug 22, 20183 votes

Isn't MF notorious for being one of the worst duelists in the game aside from Caitlyn ?

Might be an alright way to fix it.

ModUlanopoAug 22, 20182 votes

Approved.

XeroKimoAug 22, 20182 votes

To be honest, I'm pretty torn. There are a few upsides to the current love tap compared to the old/ your reworked suggestion of the old impure shots. The best thing about the current love tap is the fact that using her Q in laning phase is no longer just about getting the angle to get it to hit, unless you have crit chance, it's more of having both sides be aware of their minions so they can line up an executing Q in order to deal maximum damage, and outside of laning phase it's being aware of secondary targets in order to maximize dps, requires your love tap to hit a second target to reset it on your primary target.

Now I do have my own problems with it, specifically that I don't use the letahlity build and it still does too much when lined up right. If I manage to get a BF sword first back, say goodbye to half your hp if I line it up right. So damage from executing this perfect moment in lane is a good topic of debate on, how much is too much, and how little is too little.

Of course I have yet to talk about your changes so let's get on to it. Depending on the damage decided on impure shots, it can be just like love tap, underwhelming, or make her too good at 2 different things, currently she's good at burst, and mowing down the enemies with her ult. Your's can potentially make her a hyper carry adc, with the ability to be a lane bully, while still keeping her team fighting ability, and when I think about it now, is probably the reason why MF's ult has been so underwhelming until it led up to her rework.

They both have their ups and downs, from looking at worse and best case on both ends, but I do think your reworked version can potentially be more healthy than her current one, but not in current league of legends sadly, as even when reverting to the old passive, MF's could run dark harvest + duskblade into crit, and now she'll have dps + burst + team fight potential, which is more unhealthy than when crit was broken in S7

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

To be honest, I'm pretty torn. There are a few upsides to the current love tap compared to the old/ your reworked suggestion of the old impure shots. The best thing about the current love tap is the fact that using her Q in laning phase is no longer just about getting the angle to get it to hit, unless you have crit chance, it's more of having both sides be aware of their minions so they can line up an executing Q in order to deal maximum damage, and outside of laning phase it's being aware of secondary targets in order to maximize dps, requires your love tap to hit a second target to reset it on your primary target.

Now I do have my own problems with it, specifically that I don't use the letahlity build and it still does too much when lined up right. If I manage to get a BF sword first back, say goodbye to half your hp if I line it up right. So damage from executing this perfect moment in lane is a good topic of debate on, how much is too much, and how little is too little.

Of course I have yet to talk about your changes so let's get on to it. Depending on the damage decided on impure shots, it can be just like love tap, underwhelming, or make her too good at 2 different things, currently she's good at burst, and mowing down the enemies with her ult. Your's can potentially make her a hyper carry adc, with the ability to be a lane bully, while still keeping her team fighting ability, and when I think about it now, is probably the reason why MF's ult has been so underwhelming until it led up to her rework.

They both have their ups and downs, from looking at worse and best case on both ends, but I do think your reworked version can potentially be more healthy than her current one, but not in current league of legends sadly, as even when reverting to the old passive, MF's could run dark harvest + duskblade into crit, and now she'll have dps + burst + team fight potential, which is more unhealthy than when crit was broken in S7

One of the gates on that version is the stacking. That means lethality burst and Q crit burst are mitigated heavily. You're still rewarded for landing good ones, but most of its damage will come from continuous attacking. The other thing about being magic damage is that it prevents her from being able to just ignore one set of defenses to do her damage.

The other gate, being her AP/Magic Damage, also prevents her from having sufficient burst with a hybrid build due to Dark Harvest being adaptive. It also means that Duskblade burst isn't going to be as effective because it deals a different type of damage entirely.

XeroKimoAug 22, 20181 votes

In early game, the burst potential is still there sadly, so I should've specified, she'll have burst early, with dps late, assuming she goes dark harvest + duskblade into crit, and once again I'll just say, depending on the damage given to her stacks, she'll have a similar issue to her current passive where, too little leads to an underwhelming passive, and too much would allow her to have hyper carry levels of dps, while still allowing her to lane bully from Q spam, and be a team fighting threat.

So I'll reaffirm, it's potentially a more healthy passive, but not in the current state of league.

Relia FortuneAug 22, 20182 votes

Sure love tap is unhealthy. But honestly there is so much stuff in this game that's unhealthy right now that it is the least of my concerns. I like bonus damage on towers due to love tap. I like the wave clear love tap provides. Honestly essence reaver killed her crit build. Worst change in the 8.11 patch. Stormrazor came out and people started stacking it with duskblade and harvest on her. (Which they are working on fixing, aren't they?) I mean it replicates what rengar does. Literal one shot.

I do not wish to see her get a change to lovetap while this one shot fiasco meta exists. I want more safety before changing her W. She honestly needs lovetap with all these mage support, fighter top, assassin jungle comps. The minute an assassin jumps on her, she's dead. At least you can try and one shot them before they one shot you.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Relia Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-08-22T22:47:11.423+0000)

Sure love tap is unhealthy. But honestly there is so much stuff in this game that's unhealthy right now that it is the least of my concerns. I like bonus damage on towers due to love tap. I like the wave clear love tap provides. Honestly essence reaver killed her crit build. Worst change in the 8.11 patch. Stormrazor came out and people started stacking it with duskblade and harvest on her. (Which they are working on fixing, aren't they?) I mean it replicates what rengar does. Literal one shot.

I do not wish to see her get a change to lovetap while this one shot fiasco meta exists. I want more safety before changing her W. She honestly needs lovetap with all these mage support, fighter top, assassin jungle comps. The minute an assassin jumps on her, she's dead. At least you can try and one shot them before they one shot you.

Yeah, sadly the overall meta is the only reason to keep her as is.

Solidair3Aug 23, 20182 votes

If anything I find Love Tap to be a healthy mechanic. MF is forced to switch targets to maximize her damage. However, I will say that her bursty nature of lethality really cuts into this healthy mechanic for her. After all, there's no need to switch targets when the target dies in two sequential hits anyway.

One thing that has really disappointed me since the lethality rework, is we were assured that they would try to make sure marksmen didn't abuse them, but when they became commonplace on MF and Jhin and Lucian, they never did anything about it.

When I play MF, I prefer to go with item 3095 or item 3508 and skip lethality entirely, which I feel eventually gives me a later game advantage, but still, I wouldn't mind a removal of lethality or ranged champions, or perhaps a limit of one lethality item at most.

LuaDotExeAug 22, 20181 votes

Personally, I believe that the majority of the reasons surrounding MF's shift into a Lethality build from a Critical Strike is because she can build both in a meta where Critical Strike builds see less and less play due to how long they take to come online. I don't play too much MF, or ADC in general, so the majority of what I'm saying will be from watching my friends play MF, hearing about MF, and my general game design knowledge.

From what I've seen, yes, you are correct in that players nowadays just use it for bursting down a target (my friend has a oneshot build, and it's kinda funny to see a Rumble get Q auto'd and killed instantly-- twice). I, personally, don't think that's inherently a bad problem; I've always viewed MF as a super bursty ADC.

It was mentioned at another point during this thread that her power budget would "be able to accommodate more raw damage." This isn't so much an issue with her Love Tap mechanic itself, but rather, its' synergy with Duskblade and Stormrazor, which are going to be nerfed soon.

In my opinion, as well, you should be looking to allow MF to build both bursty AND with constant DPS; for example, Jhin can be bursty, as can Ezreal and Caitlyn. If I were to suggest my own change, I'd simply lower Love Tap's damage a lot and then give you attack speed afterwards. Not only does this mean you'll want to switch targets to maintain the attack speed bonus, and encourage attack speed builds for you to do so more quickly, but it'd keep the consistent feel of Love Tap's burst and ability to build bursty without completely gutting it.

Once again, as a small point, my main belief on this issue is that the only reason MF is opting for a burstier build is due to the amount of pure damage and item reliance rolling around the meta at the moment.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Personally, I believe that the majority of the reasons surrounding MF's shift into a Lethality build from a Critical Strike is because she can build both in a meta where Critical Strike builds see less and less play due to how long they take to come online. I don't play too much MF, or ADC in general, so the majority of what I'm saying will be from watching my friends play MF, hearing about MF, and my general game design knowledge.

From what I've seen, yes, you are correct in that players nowadays just use it for bursting down a target (my friend has a oneshot build, and it's kinda funny to see a Rumble get Q auto'd and killed instantly-- twice). I, personally, don't think that's inherently a bad problem; I've always viewed MF as a super bursty ADC.

It was mentioned at another point during this thread that her power budget would "be able to accommodate more raw damage." This isn't so much an issue with her Love Tap mechanic itself, but rather, its' synergy with Duskblade and Stormrazor, which are going to be nerfed soon.

In my opinion, as well, you should be looking to allow MF to build both bursty AND with constant DPS; for example, Jhin can be bursty, as can Ezreal and Caitlyn. If I were to suggest my own change, I'd simply lower Love Tap's damage a lot and then give you attack speed afterwards. Not only does this mean you'll want to switch targets to maintain the attack speed bonus, and encourage attack speed builds for you to do so more quickly, but it'd keep the consistent feel of Love Tap's burst and ability to build bursty without completely gutting it.

Once again, as a small point, my main belief on this issue is that the only reason MF is opting for a burstier build is due to the amount of pure damage and item reliance rolling around the meta at the moment.

The nice thing about this change is that it doesn't eliminate all of her burst, it simply focuses it into her Ultimate and rewards a solid E R combo or working in tandem with an ally's AoE C.F..

Like I said, i think it's unhealthy for her to have so much capacity for frontloading her damage to the point she can auto once and nearly kill someone. Dark Harvest is gated by farming souls and is adaptive, so it's not my major concern. My bigger concern is, as you've pointed out, Duskblade.

I also want to mention that this is not intended to replace any of her current AP ratios, as it's meant to reward her applying constant hits on an enemy or group of them.

Smartness ImmuneAug 22, 20181 votes

So you just basically took her old W and changed it a bit?

La BelloAug 22, 20181 votes

Wait till DarkHarvest and Duskblade get reworked THEN I say we take another look at MF. Before these two being added MF really was not much of a problem and I think its okay to have a caster esque upfront AOE burst marksman rather than another lame "unga bunga crit and forget" Auto attacking Infinity Edge Slave.

DemainaNyxAug 30, 20181 votes

Agreed. As a support MF game, I took Dark Harvest, got a soul from my dead Swain ADC, used it to kill the enemy ADC, got his soul, and used it to kill the enemy support. That's just BS since I should've been dead in a 1v2 because my lane mate died and the other two had about the same HP as myself. I didn't flash or outplay or anything, I just autoed the enemies once each with Love Tap plus Dark Harvest damage and that was enough to kill them.

Once Dark Harvest is looked at especially, then we'll see how things change because we'll see which rune she moves to after.

AirKingNeoAug 22, 20181 votes

Impure Shots: Miss Fortune's abilities and auto attacks deal additional magic damage (scaling with AP), dealing additional damage per stack and stacking up to 5 times. Critical Strikes apply 3 stacks and double the damage dealt.

MF's playstyle isn't to auto attack a bunch though.

Busty DemonessAug 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Miss Fortune's abilities and auto attacks deal additional magic damage (scaling with AP), dealing additional damage per stack and stacking up to 5 times. Critical Strikes apply 3 stacks and double the damage dealt.

MF's playstyle isn't to auto attack a bunch though.

Right now, it's "front load everything into one auto" and that's due to Love Tap being designed as it is. If it was designed to encourage target swapping, it failed miserably.

The idea is to reward her for focusing a target and landing a good ultimate. This also does a lot to reduce her early pressure with Q by forcing enemies to be more aware of their low health minions rather than simply allowing her to be rewarded for landing a bounce off a minion into the champion with Lethality items as they stand.

Linna ExcelAug 22, 20181 votes

Yes I think Impure shots should come back. MF's passive is good for short trades, but I think her kit needs her to have something that's better in a team fight. With her E and more importantly her ult, she's a team fight champ more than anything. As someone who doesn't like leathality in general, anything that gets a champion away from it is better for the game in my opinion.

I think MF's Q should be reworked into a skill that modifies your next AA, perhaps your next AA damages everything in a line. Maybe have it's CD lower by a second for each AA you do. This would give her more synergy with impure shots and would be a better effect than some random bullet bounce.

StrutAug 23, 20181 votes

Love tap isn't an unhealthy or bad mechanic. It makes her playstyle different than other marksmen, and makes her autos far more unique and satisfying than they were previously. The problem arises when we combine Dark Harvest (which helps her scale indefinitely and snowball off of her early game lane proficiency), Lethality, and the introduction of Stormrazor. This build has augmented her into more of a one and done healthbar demolisher, which is definitely unhealthy for her gameplay. Instead of essentially reverting the incredible gameplay update she got in preseason 6, work should be done with the Duskblade/Stormrazor interaction, and maybe some increased crit scalings to encourage her to move away from lethality. It's a nice idea, and I'm sure there are people who miss the old W passive, but I personally would be very sad to see love tap go just because of one abusive rune/item synergy.

Busty DemonessAug 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Love tap isn't an unhealthy or bad mechanic. It makes her playstyle different than other marksmen, and makes her autos far more unique and satisfying than they were previously. The problem arises when we combine Dark Harvest (which helps her scale indefinitely and snowball off of her early game lane proficiency), Lethality, and the introduction of Stormrazor. This build has augmented her into more of a one and done healthbar demolisher, which is definitely unhealthy for her gameplay. Instead of essentially reverting the incredible gameplay update she got in preseason 6, work should be done with the Duskblade/Stormrazor interaction, and maybe some increased crit scalings to encourage her to move away from lethality. It's a nice idea, and I'm sure there are people who miss the old W passive, but I personally would be very sad to see love tap go just because of one abusive rune/item synergy.

Except, again, it does the opposite in regards to her auto attacks. It's just her first auto, at which point she needs to either change targets or use her Q for the bounce. Forcing her to switch targets constantly to maintain DPS SOUNDS like a healthy mechanic, but ultimately falls flat in practice with how it's required to be implemented (see our current Love Tap) and what it instead encourages (which you've mentioned).

The other problem is that Riot isn't going to simply delete Duskblade, Stormrazor and Statik Shiv because of MF being an outlier with them. As a result, it only makes sense to kill the outlier rather than attack a symptom of the problem.

I don't think it was an incredible update for her. I like some of her changes and understand why some of them were made (such as losing Grievous Wounds). Her ultimate feels much more satisfying now and I like how her Strut's cooldown can be drastically shortened with smart gameplay. But her Love Tap makes her a big outlier and a contributor to the unhealthy meta.

LTBOUNTYHUNTERAug 23, 20181 votes

I played a ton of MF this ranked season and I have to say that I love the mechanic, but I personally don't really like the burst of her. It's fun to alternate targets and to just obliterate people with R. However I think sustained damage is a better option to go with for MF. If they can find someway to keep her passive but nerf her burst, that would be best.

SirsirAug 23, 20181 votes

Love tap isn't the problem, Duskbalde is, and lethality in general.

Nerfing a champion that abuses an item, when the item itself is proven to be so unhealthy, is not the way to go. It just means that when they EVENTUALLY fix/remove Duskblade Mf will be so weak shes almost a troll pick

Ok sure but whyAug 24, 20181 votes

I mean, with how piss-poor the crit bonus on her ultimate is, and the complete LACK of crit on her Love Tap, Lethality was pretty much the only true option for her to go. She's basically an AD caster mage with the ability to use auto attacks at her leisure.

If every champion's total AD was buffed by 50%, and all critical damage was reduced by 80%, every single ADC would switch over from crit to lethality in a heartbeat. And that's what poor Sarah was forced to do.

MLDzXnRRRAug 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=rRvXEHhc,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-08-24T02:16:30.390+0000)

I mean, with how piss-poor the crit bonus on her ultimate is, and the complete LACK of crit on her Love Tap, Lethality was pretty much the only true option for her to go. She's basically an AD caster mage with the ability to use auto attacks at her leisure.

If every champion's total AD was buffed by 50%, and all critical damage was reduced by 80%, every single ADC would switch over from crit to lethality in a heartbeat. And that's what poor Sarah was forced to do.

There is no basically no difference in her DPS vs non tanks with abilities - the build doesn't matter. Vs tanks lethality/armor pen MF is way better as caster in a combo team with other big AOE ultimates. The interesting part is her autoattack DPS crit vs lethality - crit is more expensive and still not that good vs tanks - you can't expect crit MF to DPS something like Mundo without armor ignore/bork. So, there is no reason to go crit unless you are getting kills for free.

Teridax68Aug 24, 20181 votes

I think part of the problem is that the original intent for Love Tap was to be a malus, not a bonus: the goal behind it was to encourage Miss Fortune to repeatedly switch targets, a goal supplemented by her low base AD and AD growth. In isolation, this could've been great, except its implementation was half-assed: in a vacuum, MF would deal poor damage on her hits beyond the first, but the reality of it is that these low base stats didn't matter as much when she could just stack AD from items. On top of that, this also fed into her passive, causing her to deal massive upfront burst on the first attack. As such, I think the intention behind Love Tap is good, but the implementation is not.

Because of this, I'd suggest changing Miss Fortune's kit back again: make Strut her innate instead of Love Tap, but then reward Miss Fortune in more ways for catching multiple opponents with her abilities. For example:

Make Double Up auto-crit for bonus damage (scaling with bonus critical chance maybe) if the first hit affects a champion, and either keep or remove killing any unit as a trigger for this kind of crit as well.
Shorten Guns Blazing's duration, but have it make all of MF's cooldowns tick faster for the duration as well, and reintroduce the mechanic where the buff refreshes every time Miss Fortune hits someone she didn't immediately attack previously. Perhaps have the refresh also refresh Strut as well.
Increase Make It Rain's slow/damage every time it affects a different enemy champion.

So you'd still have the essence of Miss Fortune as the best AoE marksman in the game, and would still have her terrific damage on ult immediately, rather than the previous version where it needed to ramp up and felt awkward at times, but the above could shift her more towards DPS, rather than burst outside of her ult.

Busty DemonessAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think part of the problem is that the original intent for Love Tap was to be a malus, not a bonus: the goal behind it was to encourage Miss Fortune to repeatedly switch targets, a goal supplemented by her low base AD and AD growth. In isolation, this could've been great, except its implementation was half-assed: in a vacuum, MF would deal poor damage on her hits beyond the first, but the reality of it is that these low base stats didn't matter as much when she could just stack AD from items. On top of that, this also fed into her passive, causing her to deal massive upfront burst on the first attack. As such, I think the intention behind Love Tap is good, but the implementation is not.

Because of this, I'd suggest changing Miss Fortune's kit back again: make Strut her innate instead of Love Tap, but then reward Miss Fortune in more ways for catching multiple opponents with her abilities. For example:

Make Double Up auto-crit for bonus damage (scaling with bonus critical chance maybe) if the first hit affects a champion, and either keep or remove killing any unit as a trigger for this kind of crit as well.

Shorten Guns Blazing's duration, but have it make all of MF's cooldowns tick faster for the duration as well, and reintroduce the mechanic where the buff refreshes every time Miss Fortune hits someone she didn't immediately attack previously. Perhaps have the refresh also refresh Strut as well.

Increase Make It Rain's slow/damage every time it affects a different enemy champion.

So you'd still have the essence of Miss Fortune as the best AoE marksman in the game, and would still have her terrific damage on ult immediately, rather than the previous version where it needed to ramp up and felt awkward at times, but the above could shift her more towards DPS, rather than burst outside of her ult.

I greatly agree that the implementation was poor, hence the thread. But I don't want to make Strut her passive either because then we'd need to give a new one to Guns Blazing and I don't think that will be any better. Additionally, Guns Blazing is already pretty short of a duration (3 seconds). Making it any shorter would mostly invalidate most of its use as an up front attack steroid.

I liked the idea of MF refreshing Guns Blazing with her autos but I don't like the implementation of requiring target swapping (like she already does with Love Tap, and prior to her current iteration). That's why I made it encouraged with increasing her stacks on a target, rewarding her for landing that great ER combo.

I feel Double Up's current critical mechanics are mostly fine as is, even though Lethality still makes use of them. If I were to change them to encourage critical, I would do the following:

Double Up (Now with a double down gamble!)

Critical chance moved from ricochet to target.
Ricochet only critically strikes when the target dies or is critically struck.

This way, you now have added threat with a 2-champion double up because now it can critically strike both champions. Lethality would not get that same benefit. This version would also work really well with the new version of Impure Shots because it would apply 3 stacks to both targets, setting them up for her other AOE skills. At this point, you've now encouraged MF dealing her damages in an AOE and given lots of incentive for critical by moving her bonuses around a little.

I would have considered making this passive suggestion AD/Physical based but then it would have failed to actually discourage building lethality, since lethality builds would still go to town with the extra physical damage.

Done25Aug 24, 20181 votes

What Riot can, and should, do is lower Love Tap's damage, but allow it to crit. This pulls her away from the unhealthy "one shot the squishy" armor pen play style. Additionally, they can lower the flat AD bonus on her R and greatly increase the crit bonus.

Both of these would allow her to scale into late game while also weakening the immense lane bully pressure brought about by a Duskblade empowered Q.

PhearBunnyAug 25, 20181 votes

I just miss the only MF

KoKobotoAug 28, 20181 votes

I feel that her double tap mechanic really can give her a powerful identity and high skill cap. Typically, when I play MF, I am always trying to hit 2 targets between auto attacks to maximize damage which I find very very challenging but also rewarding. Side effect is the strong one-shot damage builds when stacking lethality.

Perhaps changing it to magic damage would be better so that it would stack a bit less with lethality and bring her away from those builds. Your change turns her back into mostly being an ult bot and giving her a boring on-hit passive that numerous champions already have. I really like her love tap mechanic, she's the only champion that was 400% damage crits that she can consistently pull off which makes her unique to me. A very different playstyle compared to other champions. I don't find it necessarily unhealthy and the powerful poke damage is another side effect of just damage overall.

I'm not a MF main so maybe her identity is just to be an on-hit ADC like the rest and an ult bot tho.

Busty DemonessAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I feel that her double tap mechanic really can give her a powerful identity and high skill cap. Typically, when I play MF, I am always trying to hit 2 targets between auto attacks to maximize damage which I find very very challenging but also rewarding. Side effect is the strong one-shot damage builds when stacking lethality.

Perhaps changing it to magic damage would be better so that it would stack a bit less with lethality and bring her away from those builds. Your change turns her back into mostly being an ult bot and giving her a boring on-hit passive that numerous champions already have. I really like her love tap mechanic, she's the only champion that was 400% damage crits that she can consistently pull off which makes her unique to me. A very different playstyle compared to other champions. I don't find it necessarily unhealthy and the powerful poke damage is another side effect of just damage overall.

I'm not a MF main so maybe her identity is just to be an on-hit ADC like the rest and an ult bot tho.

The reason it's unhealthy has been pretty clearly stated. The only reason to not change her is because of the meta, which is similarly unhealthy and Riot is only now starting to bring it to a better state.

Like others have said, the idea of making her swap targets for maximum damage was cool for identity, but the implementation failed. By having her passive apply to all of her abilities as well, it reinforces her identity as an AOE Marksman. Still AOE, just not target swapping.

FertsaAug 30, 20181 votes

They could make it so that attacking a unit marks other enemies within MF's range, or enemies within a radius of the enemy hit, and her love taps would then deal damage to those marked enemies. This would stop the crazy first hit damage she deals on her first hit, but has no change after the first hit.