Problems (and benefits?) with the 8.22 Pyke Changes (Lethality Pyke)

mSticky·11/10/2018, 11:32:05 AM·2 votes·20,532 views
Patch 8.22 notes

TL;DR: New Pyke trades some of Old Pyke's playmaking ability for more damage, which makes him stronger in duels and weaker in teamfights. Overall, these changes are worse for Support Pyke but better for Mid Pyke.

Whether building full tank or Damage-Resist hybrid (item 3110 item 3026 item 3156 ), old Pyke usually had the tools to kill a medium durability or squishier opponent with an ally's help. This gave him a clear gameplan throughout the game: Find an enemy laning against an ally, cloak in, hook & stun them in some combination so your ally can get their rotation off, and execute to share the gold. In this form, Pyke, like Rakan before him, was a true "support assassin," a champ with exceptional playmaking, utility, and backline kill pressure, but that required an ally to finish the job.

The 8.22 changes move away from those concepts, and not in a way that benefits Pyke, at least not in the Support position.

"So his Lethality build got buffed, who cares? Why can't we just keep playing Pyke like we always have?" Simple. It's significantly weaker and much less consistent.

  1. Pyke's W had it's level 1 movement speed cut from 60% to 30% + 1.5 MS per point of Lethality. Considering that this is the last ability Pyke maxes, a Lethality-less Pyke will be stealthing in (or out) at half speed, which still diminishes over the duration of the move.
  2. The duration of Pyke's E (his stun) no longer scales with level, only Lethality. A 1.1 second stun is significantly less consistent than the 1.6 seconds his Pyke's old rank 5 E and often times gives the opponent that crucial half second to flash out, dash, heal, or otherwise escape what would have been a kill option.

Playmaking: New Pyke vs. Old Pyke

This new Lethality Pyke does damage, and I mean a lot of damage. When ahead with two Lethality items (or sometimes just a item 3147 and a item 3134 , it's possible for a Pyke to solo an enemy squishy with their full rotation, aftershock, and ignite (sometimes even without the ignite). Old Pyke could never match the 1v1 potential of New Pyke, and if you're lucky enough to catch a solo pushing, low-mobility carry once you have some Lethality built up, you're gonna have a good time. Overall, New Pyke feels (and builds) like a true assassin.

But Old Pyke wasn't a true assassin, he was a support assassin, and Pyke's new identity becomes abundantly clear in larger skirmishes and teamfights.

Old Pyke could dance around the outside of a siege or contested objective threatening to hook and stun enemy squishies, knowing that the enemy couldn't realistically burst them down through their resistance-heavy build before they could dash or stealth away. This enabled Old Pyke to position hyper-aggressively and put immense pressure on the enemy team. New Pyke does not have this luxury, and the enemy team knows it. If New Pyke gets caught, he can and very likely will die. Consequently, whereas Old Pyke could position aggressively like a "stealthed Thresh," New Pyke has to position conservatively (more like a Talon), waiting for their team to both a) initiate and b) soften the enemy backline so he can explode his targets. Essentially, New Pyke trades playmaking ability for playending ability, which is typically not what a team needs from their support unless they are running double tank and/or a support midlaner (Lulu Karma ). Considering that we are in a skirmisher meta (and who plays tanks/mid supports in SOLO QUEUE lol) the chance of getting the ideal team comp for New Pyke is low compared to Old Pyke.

Silver Lining? While the Lethality changes have made Support Pyke even more of a niche pick (4fun champs hehe), they've also made Mid Pyke somewhat decent, or at least less of a soft int. Despite his weak early waveclear (pre-item 3077 ) and kill pressure (pre-6), Mid Pyke is still an assassin who can prep his own ganks. Consequently, a Mid Pyke lane is extremely easy to camp, especially since many enemies will overextend trying to shove him under his turret. When played mid lane, New Pyke goes from being a "support who brings damage" to "an assassin who brings utility," which is huge given Mid Pyke's ability to influence top and jungle skirmishes that Support Pyke could never reach from bot lane. More importantly, having access to a dedicated farming lane removes a lot of the inconsistency from Support Pyke, who falls significantly behind if he can't supplement his support income with execute and shutdown gold. All in all, I think there might be something here, even if it's only a noncompetitive pick like TahmKench top or Lucian mid.

I'm going to keep testing out the new Pyke, and I'll update this post if I find any new results. Let me know what you think playing as/with/against the new Pyke.

Thanks for reading.

6 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar11/11/2018, 4:23:16 PM4 votes

It feels like you're absolutely trying to convince me that the changes are mostly bad, because old Pyke's playstyle was super unique and he's losing it. But I can sum up why I didn't like it with two words that you used yourself: "stealthed Thresh."

Thresh gets a lot of crap for being an overloaded design already. Adding stealth onto that is not something I see as ok. The new pyke will play more like an assassin, and that's good, because that was the intent!

My biggest concern is whether or not he can really succeed building full assassin on a support budget, and I think I'll more data from this patch to figure out how I feel about that one.

Bârd11/15/2018, 7:58:34 PM2 votes

I don't mind being encouraged to build AD instead of tank.

What I dislike is being forced to build Lethality specifically.

If tank Pyke was garbage, but that opened up room for options like item 3748 item 3812 item 3153 item 3095 I would be very much OK with that because the sheer flexibility of his build is what drew me to Pyke in the first place.

Nomoreriptide11/24/2018, 3:29:15 AM2 votes

I think that Pyke followed a bad balancing approach in the process. The guideline followed was: since tank Pyke is stronger, we are going to buff lethality interaction. The problem is another: Why does tank Pyke work? The answer lies in his insanely high base damages: his Q and R have among the highest base values in the game.

Pyke kit is structured to give him access to additional gold because he needs it to build lethality/ad items. In his current status, his base damage, combined with lethality ratio buffs, just creates unfun adn unbalanced experience.

How to balance/fix Pyke?

  1. Lower Q/R base damage
  2. Make R damage scaling with R rank, not with his level
  3. Make bounty gold scaling (in 100-300 in stead of 300)
  4. Bonus movement speed from W should not be available if he is in combat
  5. Lower E collision radius (by a very small amount, like 5/10 units left and right)
ModKnightsKemplar11/11/2018, 4:02:22 PM1 votes

Approved!

Done2511/12/2018, 12:11:56 AM1 votes

New changes are immensely beneficial to any Pyke that builds like he should. An assassin. Pyke was not meant to stack 200~250 armor and just ignore everything the enemy team threw at him.

Fluffeh11/12/2018, 7:02:20 AM1 votes

The changes really sharpened pyke. If pykes team ever falls behind he suddenly has a very difficult job as he cant actually use his abilities without tank stats and he cant execute chain if no one is low enough to execute. However hes much stronger on the offense as assassins tend to be(it feels kind of dirty ulting squishies at 50% hp who dont realize the danger theyre in) which makes this almost an even handed nerf/power shift. What good is a support thats only good if his team is already winning? Not that good. I didnt really consider that he might be better off in another lane as riot designed him pretty well to avoid solo lanes but that might be where he ends up with more time and testing, he's already down 2% in winrate.