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Riots new stat changes are an Illusion of choice.

GigglesO·10/27/2018, 2:58:28 PM·32 votes·28,207 views

So here is the deal (Insert math)

Level 1 Morde Vs level 1 Xearth

0 bonuses MR 32 Xearth Q 80 (80+.75ap) Damage taken = 60.6

6 MR and 10 AP MR 38 Xearth Q 87.5 (80+.75*10) Damage taken = 63.4

For a set of stats that are supposed to be "Quasi equal" MR is losing the war. For me to take the same damage that a Xearth Q would deal with the bonus 10 AP I would need roughly 12 MR

10 ap costs 217.5g 12 MR costs 216g

So... yea... damage is still being favored, and we are removing bone plating, which also increases general game damage...

You can't viably get defenses out of the runes anymore, Riot knows this and so they force you to take 1 defense stat so that the players that would otherwise just pick 3 offensive stats don't 100% win by gold efficiency alone. If I could choose 30 ap (651 gold) or 18 MR (324 gold) I would always take 30 ap and then just build in game early defense. Literally a kill worth of gold.

Here is the gold value of the shit they are trying to give us 5 armor = 100g 6 MR = 108g 6 ad = 210g 10 ap = 217g 15hp = 39g 90hp=234g 9% AS = 225g

Clear bias for damage. Defense needs to be similar gold value.

So Next season when not picking your mandatory defense rune remember 1 offence rune gives you a 100g advantage and a damage advantage over the enemy.

79 Comments

Support Position11/16/2018, 8:10:48 PM6 votes

Honestly I wish they would get rid of Keystone restriction :/ so you could pick whatever runes with whatever keystone and such :/ along with give ALL stats... I want FULL control... since they refuse to balance in the correct ways :/

ModKnightsKemplar10/30/2018, 3:33:18 AM6 votes

Not sure I buy that's it's an "illusion of choice" as you say.

I would, however, really love insight from Riot about how they arrived at these numbers, and how they feel about your evaluation of the gold value of these stats. I feel there's probably a good explanation, but generally agree that it feels bad to players not to have that explanation in hand.

Having said that, we're still in early stages on this. It's not just possible, but likely, that these stats get tweaked before preseason launches.

ProfDrDeath10/30/2018, 9:35:31 PM5 votes

These numbers are rather incomplete.

Yes, 6 MR vs 10 AP, in the example case, seems to be an advantage for the AP. At level 1, that is. Even then, conveniently forgetting to add Xerath's other sources of AP (+10 from slot 1, +15 from Doran's Ring) skews the numbers as well: Against 25 AP Xerath (98.75 Q damage), Morde takes 74.8 / 71.6 damage (95.7%). Against 35 AP Xerath (106.25 Q damage), Morde takes 80.5 / 77.0 damage (95.7%). Bold are the numbers that would correspond to OP's two figures.

However, what about level 5? Level 5 Morde has 36 MR, or 42 with an additional 6. Xerath's Q at rank 3 has 160 base damage. Against 25 AP Xerath (178.75 Q damage), Morde takes 131.4 / 125.9 damage (95.8%). Against 35 AP Xerath (186.25 Q damage), Morde takes 136.9 / 131.2 damage (95.8%). Oh, look, Morde takes less damage in the cases with both bonuses than in the case without both bonuses.

What about level 18, 600 AP Xerath? At level 18, assuming 50 MR from other sources, Morde has 103 or 109 MR. Against 600 AP Xerath (690 Q damage), Morde takes 339.9 / 330.1 damage (97.1%). Against 610 AP Xerath (697.5 Q damage), Morde takes 343.6 / 333.7 damage (97.1%). In this case, the 10 AP increase Xerath's Q damage by 1.1%. Meanwhile, the 6 MR still reduce the damage Morde takes by 2.9%. If Morde had no MR from other source, 6 MR would even reduce his taken damage by 3.8%.

In the end, the multiplicative nature of resistances compared to the additive nature of AD/AP means that resistance amounts in such effects MUST be smaller than the amounts in primary offensive stats.

#Different stats simply work differently.

Jetboost10/30/2018, 1:51:27 PM5 votes

I agree that that the stats should be equal in value at the start of the game. You pick the runes that would give your way of playing your champion an advantage with that given playstyle if damage stats are worth more there is no reason to go pick defensive stats.

I also want to note that some champions abilities scale with defensive stats but this scaling doesn't really matter cause the ratios aren't all that good so the starting defensive stat bonuses from runes shouldn't matter much as most champions that do scale with them have few offensive abilities that scale with those stats. What i thus want to say is that even tanks will probably pick the damage runes because they will have more use of it early in comparison to the defense runes.

I mean I am even thinking of playing tresh with the new dark harvest and shield bash runes because of damage potential.

ModUlanopo10/30/2018, 1:59:11 AM3 votes

Question: aren't the gold values more about gating when the numbers change, making it a bad idea to compare stats in this way?

Example (with totally made-up numbers): jungler goes back at N minutes and is able to afford 6 MR. Goes to mid and has an advantage because the mid won't be able to afford the corresponding AP won't be able to buy until N+3.

Pika Fox10/30/2018, 2:22:08 PM3 votes

You need to remember many champs have multiplicative defensive abilities.

Also, it doesnt matter if damage outscales defensive runes, youll still probably take defensive options. It doesnt matter how much damage the enemy does to you, all that matters is you have at least 1 hp.

Not to mention offensive options vary in value between champs (how easy they can land their abilities, their ratios, method of obtaining farm, how easy they are to harass)

DragonShea11/8/2018, 6:24:48 AM2 votes

Ok, first of all. the Damage runes need to be lowered for them to be balanced, cut adaptive force by half and reduce AS by -5% then we are good on the offensive side.

In regards to CDR, make it scale from Lv 1 to 10 instead of 1 to 18.

Alzon10/30/2018, 6:47:35 PM2 votes

Ah, but did you factor into the account that you’re now getting that MR instead of a tiny bit of HP at level 1, while the Xerath is still sitting at about the same amount of AP that he would have with the current system?

It is an all-around buff to early-game defenses, even considering the loss of Bone Plating.

ThrowsTheBird11/13/2018, 11:44:16 PM1 votes

If they pump any more resistances into this game then the whole point of aggressive laning will be lost and it will be a dumb game.

This new system allows you to start the game with half a Cloth Armor or Null-Magic Mantle and that is still not enough for you?

I don't want wet-noodle fights, I want to be rewarded for risky plays and not just play farm simulator for 25 minutes.

ThrowsTheBird11/14/2018, 11:34:18 AM1 votes

Here is the gold value of the shit they are trying to give us 5 armor = 100g 6 MR = 108g 6 ad = 210g 10 ap = 217g 15hp = 39g 90hp=234g 9% AS = 225g Clear bias for damage.

The only reason for this is that tank items are DIRT CHEAP for no apparent reason. Tanks no longer have a weak early game so they should be able to farm just like everybody else, make their items more expensive. Or look at it from the other side: damage items are expensive so it is only fair that ad and ap are worth more gold.

Armor and MR have low gold value because these items cost like 2700-2900 gold while most other items go to the 3200 range.

You can't have it all you know. Tanks are spoiled with cheap items so it follows that tank stats are worth less.

You want a less biased system? Make tank items cost 3200-3500 and immediately those values will change :)

Kaioko11/14/2018, 3:30:38 PM1 votes

You're taking things in a silo by only looking at the stat choices from runes. There are many more changes and not taking the impact of them all combined causes you to make asumptions that are simply incorrect just to prove your point.

Things like doran shield changes, turret changes and dragon respawn times just to name a few play a huge impact that should not be underestimated.

Asobi Spirit11/15/2018, 7:49:21 PM1 votes

I'm not sure what the point is here, can you clarify it for me?