Evil Grain Silos: A History of Dark Harvest

ModCaptainMårvelous·11/25/2018, 5:17:52 AM·20 votes·19,666 views

Currently, Dark Harvest is among the most contentious runes among players. This extends to almost every ELO and generally is seen as a problem, as it ends up stifling other summoner spells. Rather than a generic rant post, I'd rather go through the quick history of Dark Harvest and propose possible solutions to it.

#The Beginning: Bad Season for Crops

At the start, Dark Harvest was a member of the Domination tree with a rather simple get-up: Large things/champions give you a stack of the harvest. Your next auto in about 20 seconds will deal bonus damage and add a stack ot it. At 150 stacks, you can hold it for far longer. This made a neat little trifecta of runes for Domination:

  • Take electrocute if you're a combo mage/assassin interested in quick, rapid combos.
  • Take predator if you have to run into combat and/or run someone down.
  • Take Dark Harvest if you're the farming type who wants to do dank damage late game.

But what was the problem with DH? It never saw much play until electrocute got demolished?

Simply put, DH was too slow to stack, didn't provide enough benefit and didn't have an easy method of activation. You had to auto to proc dark harvest and in most cases, weaving an auto mid-combo didn't provide enough of a benefit. In addition, some kits just didn't support an extra AA. This made the spell quite niche, mostly on AD-based champs who could afford a "one hit mega combo" like Wukong, Miss Fortune or other lethality characters. The slow stacks meant you wouldn't be hitting hard and even getting stacks might mean you miss out. It was far too feast or famine, with an emphasis on famine.

Seeing this, Riot took it in the direction we see today.

#Today: Farms of Doom

Dark Harvest was changed in a variety of ways, most of which we know. It's an execute summoner spell that deals a small amount of bonus damage that ramps up with each harvest. Perhaps the biggest change was that now, Dark Harvest procs on everything. A dot. An AoE. Single targets. You name it, it probably procs on it.

This, however, has lead to a major problem. It harkens back to the days of Thunderlord's Decree, where the keystone was generically good one everyone. Namely in that it can be procced on everything. With no internal cooldown, multiple times. Perhaps the most egregious example with current Dark Harvest is duo lanes. As there's no internal cooldown on Harvest per person being hit, you can chain 2+ harvests on the same character. This means you'll be getting people chunked down quite a bit from about 40+ bonus damage.

Dark Harvest, as it stands, is too universally good for being too easy to proc. We see this in the rise of dark harvest comps and people picking champions who can easily activate it.

#Improving Dark Harvest: Use a sickle, not a wheat thresher.

Most people want to completely revert DH from the way boards approaches it, but I don't think that's particularly healthy. Dark Harvest was only taken when electrocute was nerfed due to damage constraints, so instead I believe the spell should get generic nerfs around to lessen how useful it is, rather than making it too universally good. Below are a few ways to hit the rune in ways that don't just "nerf damage".

  • A.) Nerf the Stacking: Right now, Dark Harvest is too easy to stack. 50% is quite easy to hit in lane and from there, it allows Dark Harvest to begin going upwards as early as 1-2 minutes in lane phase provided you take a bad trade. One way to make this more difficult is to lower the activation limit. Have Dark Harvest proc on 20% health, which scales up to 30%, then 40%, and finally 50%. It makes it harder to stack while rewarding all-in champions.

  • B.) Nerf the Proccing: As previously stated, the proccing works on....everything. Instead, have Dark harvest proc only on single-target spells or auto-attacks. This way, Dark Harvest is still good for quite a few champions while making it works on characters like Brand or Karthus who mostly proc it by DoTs or heavy AoE abuse.

  • C.) Nerf the Multi-proc: Nothing feels worse than getting triple-chunked by three dark harvest users. In much the same way pyke has a (faux) ultimate that lowers all the HP of everyone on the map by 25% or so, so too does Dark Harvest lower people's HP metaphorically. Instead, I'd give the spell an internal CD on the person you proc, making it so that you can't chain-proc Dark Harvest. This in turn makes it worse on multiple champions while also lowering stacks that can be earned on a teamwide basis.

  • D.) Push Dark Harvest towards Stacking: Right now, Dark Harvest is good at all stages of the game. The base damage is ok, the scaling makes it better and it has an OK ratio. Instead, maybe Riot can lower the base damage to quite a degree (2-36 damage) but instead make the souls increase the ability's scaling allowing it to be THE late game assassin option.

#Conclusion

Dark Harvest is probably a better design than it was before as it's more useable by more players and champions. However, the rune has clear problems about being TOO useable. Personally, I think Riot should focus on making the rune less effective and give it a cleaner niche in the game's repertoire of runes. Once it gets a better niche, it can be made into a better experience for all.

17 Comments

Jetboost11/26/2018, 10:03:33 PM3 votes

I understand you but i like how you can use it with anything right now. I do agree that that getting attacked by multiple dark harvest users would be annoying but not allowing it to proc is I think going a bit to far, I'd rather have it be like this instead then:

Soul harvested: Your soul has recently been harvested and will take X seconds to completly recover if your soul is harvested again before your soul could recover you will take less damage from the harvest darkharvest damage/((remainingcooldownofX-X)/X).

This would nerf incoming burst damage while allowing the dark harvest users to harvest their souls.

Dwaryy11/25/2018, 5:45:42 PM1 votes

Hello, I see you've really put some thought into this keystone and your post in general. almost all of your points I can fully agree with, especially the fact that its way too accessible for a very large portion of the champion roster. With this in mind I feel like there is a better solution out there for one of your points when coming to change the rune and that would be Nerf the Multi-proc, i feel that within the meta we are currently in where everybody is taking dark harvest that this is likely the best solution, but for the long run i feel it will greatly weaken dark harvests impact for solo queue both in its game-play stance and its enjoyment stance, i feel like nothing feels worse than having a keystone that is supposedly useless in a moment where it should shine. Although i do admit that this is a problem, it might become less of one if the changes to its ability to be procked (being a single target attack/ability and the % threshold) are to be applied.

Overall an enjoyable post with some great thought put into it, i recently created my own full (somewhat) rework of the rune and this post has made me think about some changes that would have to be made (I had it prock on an auto attack.) I would be very grateful if you checked it out and gave it some feedback.

Galiö11/25/2018, 8:10:43 PM1 votes

I've been spamming rioters and boards about giving DH a lockout time from multiple DH users. It's no fun to have 3 or 4 sources of DH procing at once for hitting the tip of an ability and then those 3 or 4 champs get a reset.

Plus dark harvest provides safety in the game... while electrocute is generally powerful and harder to proc DH can provide a better source of damage in games that end up being 'fiestas'. So even if you are playing from behind you not only are slowly clawing back up with gold but your stacks will be good enough to melt an adc that ends up losing 600-800 health and ends up in the enemies threshold of procing X amount of DH.

It's just a broken rune especially in conjunction that the domination tree has most of the best runes already in it.... and you can pick w.e stats you want now as well.

It's just a 4 layers problem.

To recap: Safe Increased effectiveness per user of DH Some of the best runes in one tree Rune shards opens it up to anyone.

ModAcademy Kayn11/25/2018, 8:42:12 PM1 votes

I'd personally like it to have a range :T I don't like Teemo's harvesting my Soul from cross map from him just putting down Shrooms in bushes. I feel like that alone, defeats the idea of hunting for stacks, just randomly getting them from Shroom traps.

Bârd11/26/2018, 5:21:20 PM1 votes

I think they should push the threshold from 50% health all the way down to simply increasing the damage of your killing blows against champions.

Gilgayu11/26/2018, 10:27:36 PM1 votes

Thank you for breaking things down.

This new DH is a interesting case, before they changed it, it used to be a jungle rune (also used by mf and a few others, but that's not that bad), and it was almost the "go-to" rune for damage junglers. But now it is used for laning, and it works on practically everyone who want a bit more damage.

The problem right now is the junglers. The only keystone they can use in domination is predator, and not all junglers synasize well with it. None of the keystones in precision is good for jungle, unless you count fleeting footwork for a bit more sustain for clearing camps. Socery's phase rush can be used by champions like Xin Zhao, but other than that it is pretty useless since both comet and aery are made for laning. Resolve can still be used by tanky junglers, but they only have so many chances to proc it, making it much weaker. Inspiration is a joke for a lot of champions. Very few champions synasize well with klepto, and the spell book and glacial augment are definitely off-meta, with very limited senerios for them to work.

I also wish to see the fourth keystone for Resolve and Inspiration, since all the other trees have four keystone.

Jacknife11/27/2018, 3:34:01 PM1 votes

First off I want to say good work on your synopsis. It's kept simple and cuts to the heart of the matter, which I appreciate.

As for your suggestions on where it can be improved, I personally like A and D the best (as in moving Dark Harvest in both directions). I personally like the fact that DH procs on all types of damage coming from the player, it's a big change for the better that makes sure it's not extremely niche to a small champion pool (kinda like how predator is now). Ironically, I think the problem involved with suggestion C will go away on its own once DH gets nerfed and pushed in a direction that's less... lord of thunder-y. I think using ideas A and D will push the keystone in a direction that mid-to-late game champions of all kinds can enjoy!

Now if I were to change it my way, I'd make it an execute keystone, where if the enemy falls below a certain health percentage you get a meh damage proc and a % boost to your built armor/magic penetration.

HarbingerGrape11/30/2018, 1:26:04 AM1 votes

I personally agree with the Option D i think it should be an instantly stacking keystone and be awful early its not meant to win early its meant to slowly grow from nothing to a problem if left unchecked I have more on the subect on my post in gameplay dont know if it will get into gameplay+

Bewitching Senna11/30/2018, 1:47:04 PM1 votes

Interesting thoughts here, but you forgot smth. It was meta rune for MF (she don't have best option now), because it was procced by Q and even early game with MF's passive it was kinda... good dmg. New version of DH is not really good for MF, useless for any junglers (shaco as example), its only abused by poking midlaners/supports. Basically old scaling rune became new aery for poke champions. I don't really like it, i would like to see some sort of old DFT rune instead and return DH to its previous form. But that's just me...

SettDownShutUp11/30/2018, 8:53:58 PM1 votes

I'd also like to mention how magnified the effects tend to be on ARAM, where with more bodies in a tighter cluster, it becomes the go-to. It's now common place to find 4 or 5 Dark Harvest on a single team.

FoamingStuff12/6/2018, 8:06:14 PM1 votes

I would like to add to this, in the unlikely case that Riot reads this, that I fail to understand why this ability is allowed to completely, and utterly, disrupt the whole game on so many different levels, which not only highly diminishes gameplay for everyone but also prevents Riot to really look at how the season changes unfold, as Dark Harvest currently has such a dominating presence in every singe game.

I find it personally baffling that 1) Dark Harvest made it to live in its state, 2) That it took absolutely forever for it to be nerfed the first time, 3) Took another forever to nerf it another time and 4) by the looks of it, is still broken.

'Broken' being an overused term, but in this case, I truly believe it applies.

With such problematic abilities, I do think in the future it would be better altogether if the ability is initially removed or reverted to its old state, rather than allowing it to fester for such length of time, and then we can all re-think the way said ability should be re-implemented.

I think your suggestions are on the right track. Sadly I feel so toxic towards this ability (the term "tilted" comes to mind) that I have nothing useful to contribute to your suggestions, but I'm glad some people are being constructive about it.

PurpleKingCrazy12/8/2018, 7:43:00 PM1 votes

Well, I gotta say this is most certainly about the idea that I just see a lot of people playing this rune. But then again It is sometimes more relied upon which skill to take, and in ARAM is very oppressive and has situated to many many problems in my game mode and I love playing ARAM (and sometimes being salty.)

I would think that with the term for procing Dark Harvest may not be always reliable, it is just making League of Legends look more like a skill game than an actual Strategy game (the strategy part which I love about and not the occasional skill and damage galore.) When Dark Harvest was introduced, I was occasionally optimistic about its outcome of how it may effect games and how certain runes and Masteries work. However over time in the year I just began to lose hope when I see some champions that I don't see take Dark Harvest actually do or just do it because it is "fun" to them. Mostly I could understand basic attacks procing the thing but then the problem is that the stacking for most of the game had been... super diminishing and very unwelcoming to me on the occasional part.

I know I take a little heed there once in a blue moon, and hopefully one day I'll start to rank when I feel like it (I don't really but its an outlook for me when I decide this path).

I think there could be a way to make Dark Harvest work but not stack very easily on a game such as ARAM because you can proc it and it stacks fine. The issue about the whole design choice of Dark Harvest by Riot is that it resets on kills. Normally I would say I want not just to nerf the damage at all. I do have my 3 offers for the game with a different insense of how I feel the game would be better:

  1. Aram Specific: Make the Rune NOT Reset on kills, have the same cd. As far as things go there are way too many people taking the rune because it does the work and making people go for kills more and more often. It's even hard not to feed and to initiate a battle in ARAM (it does happen and it becomes settling) but the take for it is that it just is still there for ARAM just won't reset on kills anymore and it stacks and that's how I kinda used to enjoy stacking on occasion.

  2. Remove Dark Harvest from the game. I know it's probably harsh to a lot of people who do enjoy taking Dark Harvest but there could be better alternatives to have a better strategy game in a ;long run and I don't actually mind it being removed from the game now. As it stands it does seem to crop up this problem of being very oppressive to the player when they see 5 people taking the same rune. It could just be another rune or spread to other runes where it can be helpful of diversifying the gameplay aspects.

  3. Your suggestions: They are pretty good. Actually I got nothing else to say about the idea and I think your ideas do have some form of agreement with mine. Again, Dark Harvest is way too easy to proc, can be mutil-proced on different champions, and can be stacked in multiple ways that are too vague for it to be stacked. And I believe if games are to be lasting longer than remiving the rune from the game or one of your suggestions is the way to go.

Again, I've seen it quite a blistering amount of times and I just don't want to be the one who gets destroyed by someone taking a rune that does a butt load of damage and then keeps growing over time. That's just insane and I really hate the design choice of it. This is not because I was salty at my games, but I have been speculating this for a long time now.

Taliyah

SuperLuigiLXIV12/10/2018, 4:45:21 PM1 votes

Personally, I'd rather leave Electrocute as the 'bonus damage' rune and tune Dark Harvest into more of a snowballer's rune.

Not that I advocate doing it right now, damage doesn't need any more bones, but what if it gave, say, 100 bonus gold every time you acquired a Bounty Hunter stack? Early gold generation as a reward for getting ahead early and roaming suits a snowbally champion, no? And maybe it also gives some adaptive force as a bonus--just to ballpark a number, 10 +6 per Dark Harvest stack. That way, if you play it right, you end up with +24 AD or +40 AP, an additional 500 gold, and full Bounty stacks for your third-row trait as well.

And, being a snowballer's rune, the fact that it 'runs out' where most keystones don't is fitting as well, since early-power champions are supposed to lose if they can't leverage that power before they get outclassed.

ModUlanopo11/25/2018, 4:20:15 PM1 votes

Approved

ı Sona ı12/28/2018, 8:20:50 AM1 votes

I say we give Electrocute buff! Make it like the old version where it did splash damage around the target.