Thinking about what can be done with Master Yi

Carnicore·8/30/2018, 2:41:38 AM·25 votes·34,811 views

I've been a Master Yi main for at least 3 or 4 years, and as much as I enjoy playing him, I'm aware that he's had certain problems since the dawn of League.

  1. He's frustrating to play with or against. Scarra put it in an interesting way, he's a champion that generally either carries the game singlehandedly or doesn't do anything for his team. He's widely hated by the playerbase, even in Diamond where players generally can manage him without too much difficulty. It's normal for champions to cause some frustration when they beat you, but when you're beaten by Master Yi it too often feels like there's nothing you could've done to stop him.

  2. He can't really be balanced. In low elo, he is naturally very strong because he does tons of damage very reliably, and gets resets easily. At higher tiers, that damage becomes much less reliable as players more consistently focus him in fights, CC him, abuse him when his ult is on cooldown, snowball his lanes when he's farming in the early game, and punish his predictable approaches. I mean, all he does is run at enemies, right click them, and Alpha Strike to dodge spells so that he can continue right clicking. He's terrible.

These problems can't really be solved without a huge rework, but I believe we can improve his design with some strategic changes.


Part 1: Resets

  • When Master Yi gets a kill or assist (after level 6), his basic abilities have their remaining cooldowns decreased by 70% and Highlander (if active) has its duration lengthened by 7 seconds. Master Yi has these resets so that he can teamfight with a glass cannon build, like an ADC. In order to survive, Master Yi needs Alpha Strike on a very low cooldown (so that he can gapclose, avoid damage, avoid CC, etc.) and he needs Highlander to be active for the duration of the fight (or else he just doesn't have the mobility necessary to avoid getting kited to death). He also needs Wuju Style active to do sufficient damage, his DPS is actually pretty terrible when Wuju Style is on cooldown. The problem with these resets is that they are very powerful; Master Yi gets a huge powerspike by killing someone and he can string multiple kills in quick succession if that happens. If he doesn't get that reset though, his ult only lasts 7 seconds, Wuju Style only 5, and he'll probably be dead because he can take so much damage in the time between each Alpha Strike.

  • Highlander is 7 seconds, plus 7 for each reset. This is too much and too little. During a fight played properly, a lot of time can be wasted by running away from Master Yi, disabling him, using Zhonya/GA, becoming invisible, etc. Meditate can buy up to 4 more seconds, but that's really only practical if you're waiting for someone's stealth or stasis to end. But if Master Yi does get resets, Highlander lasts almost forever. It would be ideal if Highlander had 8 or 9 seconds for the base duration, and 4-6 seconds added per reset. Diminishing returns would also be good, for example 6 seconds for your first reset, 5 for the 2nd, 4 for the 3rd, etc. Or cap the duration at 10 seconds after each kill.

  • Having cooldowns reduced by 70% with a kill is too much, it makes Master Yi incredibly feast or famine in fights. Instead he should have them reduced by only 50 or 60%, but as compensation he needs other ways to reduce his cooldowns. Ideas:

  • Channeling Meditate could reduce his other basic abilities' cooldowns by 1 second for every 0.5 seconds it's channeled. This encourages Master Yi players to use Meditate more, an action with lots of counterplay. Normally, you don't want to use Meditate because Alpha Strike's cooldown is really long if you're not constantly attacking.

  • In one PBE cycle, Ricklessabandon tested a change to Meditate that would let Master Yi lower his ability cooldowns by fully channeling Meditate and then attacking. I think the idea had some merit, it's just that the buff needed to be considerably stronger to be worthwhile. Like, imagine if your first basic attack after Meditate almost fully refreshed the cooldown of your abilities. You could Alpha Strike an enemy to gapclose, attack them, and then 1 second later have Alpha Strike ready to cast again. That would be worth using Meditate before fighting.

  • Make basic attacks during Highlander lower all basic ability cooldowns by 1 additional second while active. (Needless to say, Highlander would need a longer cooldown to justify this).

  • Rework E into a skillshot or something that Master Yi can hit enemies with and be rewarded with lower cooldowns, particularly for hitting more than 1 enemy champion.

The idea here is to reward Master Yi for using his abilities instead of for getting kills.

Part 2: Miscellaneous

  • Attack Range: Master Yi has 125 range on his basic attacks, an artifact from season 1. I believe he should have 175 range (or 200 if you're crazy), to match his animations more closely and give him minor benefits like better jungle monster kiting and occasionally another basic attack on a fleeing enemy. It also gives him more space to move around in fights - he can stand anywhere in a 175-radius circle of his target instead of 125.

  • Highlander: The active could be changed to have a little more depth. Suppose it started with a short 1- or 2-second channel. The movement speed could scale with how long you channel it before releasing the key. This solves an issue where Master Yi's initiation is too sudden for low elo players to deal with, but it also gives space to buff the movement speed from Highlander. The movement speed right now is too low to keep up with many champions in the game, especially at levels 6 and 11.

  • Clarity: Add a visual indicator to make it clearer who or what was targeted when Yi uses Alpha Strike. It's difficult to track Master Yi in frantic fights, and this would help make Yi less effective in low elo.

  • Alpha Strike Flexibility: Give new functions to Alpha Strike. For example, holding Q could return you to the starting position after using Alpha Strike, instead of blinking to the target unit. Or, you could appear next to the second Alpha target instead of the first. This is the opposite of adding clarity, but changes like this add more depth to Master Yi and make him less predictable in the hands of smart players.

  • Alpha Strike Consistency: The untargetability duration varies between roughly 0.25 and 0.85 seconds, depending on how many targets it "bounces" to. With some changes to the animations, it could be standardized to 0.5 or 0.6 seconds in all situations. The reasoning for this is that 0.25 is too little time to dodge many spells and leads to many "I was in Alpha!" moments. A 4-target Alpha Strike is a really long time to be untargetable, more time than you need to dodge spells and actually long enough to be annoying when you're just trying to gapclose before the enemy runs under their turret or something.

  • Double Strike Consistency: Double Strike has a pattern of S-S-S-D-S-S-D-S-S-D of alternating Single and Double strikes when you first start attacking a target. It does this because Double Strike is coded as an on-hit effect that stacks itself. Double Strike is like a 3-hit passive that takes time to warm up. This also creates crazy interactions with Rageblade's Phantom Hit, with these passives combined Master Yi applies on-hit effects effectively twice with every attack. I suggest changing Double Strike to an on-attack effect that applies on every 3rd hit instead of 4th, and doesn't stack itself. This nerfs the Phantom Hit interaction, but also changes his pattern to S-S-D-S-S-D-S-S-D which is a buff for any build not including Rageblade.

  • Wave Control: Return the bonus damage to minions that he had on Alpha Strike. Pushing lanes quickly is important in high elo, for helping teammates shove and recall, and splitpushing. After changes were made to jungling to nerf funneling strategies, this nerf he received a few patches ago is no longer necessary.

Part 3: Rework E

  • Master Yi almost certainly doesn't need a rework on the scale of Irelia or Aatrox. Really only one ability needs dramatic changes - E, Wuju Style. You just press the button and do more damage for 5 seconds. What Master Yi should have for an E is some kind of additional utility to support his core gameplay, which is basic attacking enemies, and hopefully create more interaction with opponents. Wuju Style's current active should become some kind of on-hit true damage passive function of E, for example "Master Yi deals X magic damage on hit, stacking up to 5 times and becoming true damage when fully stacked."

  • Option A: give him a dash. I'm suggesting splitting Alpha Strike into two spells; Q remains Alpha Strike but with much shorter range, and E becomes some kind of medium-length dash to act as his primary gapcloser. This accomplishes a few things. First, it's a nerf to the point-and-click unstoppable gapcloser that Alpha Strike is right now. If Master Yi can get in 600 range of you, which is longer than the attack range of most ranged champions, then he can Q-auto you and there's very little you can do to stop him or escape from him. Dashes on the other hand take time to travel, they can be interrupted with CC, and they can't dodge skillshots as easily as a blink can. Secondly, this gives Master Yi the freedom to use Alpha Strike entirely as a defensive tool. He no longer has to choose between using Q to gapclose, or hold it in case you need to dodge CC. This is a difficult decision to make because often, it's a choice between getting kited and killed, or gapclosing and getting stunned immediately.

  • Option B: use the goggles. Master Yi's got these "seven lenses of insight", so you might as well give him some kind of vision mechanic so that he can use Alpha Strike on enemies in Fog of War, or fight invisible champions. I don't think he should just get true sight in a circle around him for pressing E though, because that would be too strong against champions that rely on their invisibility.

  • Option C: a ranged spell. Xin Zhao got a rework that gave him a modest ranged skillshot on W and it made him a much better champion, even after all the nerfs that came later. He now has options like "dash to a minion to get in range to jab a champion with spear", "jab into the darkness to see if there's a blue buff on the other side of the wall", "jab into a bush instead of facechecking it", "jab at an enemy to poke them without committing to a fight to the death", "try to jab Akali while she's in her shroud since you can't target her", etc. His effectiveness in low elo stayed more or less the same, but he became a viable champion in high elo, which wasn't possible before the rework. For Master Yi, I would suggest either giving him a magic energy wave projectile attack, or something more unique like Zoe's R that dashes forward, strikes enemies with his sword, and dashes back to safety. Or some kind of hybrid of the two ideas, Master Yi attacking enemies with an astral projection of himself. The spell could reveal enemies so that he can cast Alpha Strike on enemies in FoW or bushes, or have other effects like disarming enemies, shredding their armor, lowering his cooldowns, damaging turrets, or applying on-hit effects.

83 Comments

TheSingularity8/31/2018, 5:18:15 AM11 votes

I feel changing the passive and E would be the way to go. As is right now, using his Q to dodge is the most skill expression possible. The rest of his kit is one big stat stick which I feel is the major fuel source of the Yi hate wildfire. As he either shreds you or he doesn't. There is no counterbuilding and there is no out playing if you're on your own. The champs that win 1v1 simply out stat check him (which in itself isn't a great method for victory)

With a titanic reset, full build and max atk speed, a conqueror Yi can dish out just over 2K true damage in one second (you can get 4 autos with that second). This is largely due to his guinsoos+passive+E interaction (resulting in 2 autos that count as 8 total). From there that indicates a 6K HP tank will die in 3 seconds on average (which is obscene) and there is almost nothing you can do about it

If we gave him more than point+click damage, the wildfire would be down graded to more of a camp fire, or hell maybe even a candle.

Suggestion for his E: Bring them rings on his sword into it (hell we could make it an ult).

  1. Yi spawns 6 rings at random around an opponent, hitting one enhances his next AA. This limits the damage of his E (he can't break it with atk speed) and means he needs more mechanical skill (little more micro)
  2. Yi spawns 5 rings in a + formation (1 in the middle, 1 on each side). Auto-attacking a champion in a region deals more dmg and disables it for X seconds but makes it the new center of the spell (could be a new R if we want to give it more oomph, then the E could be replaced with a generic speed boost or somethin)

He has a secondary sword: Idk, maybe he throws the sword into the ground marking a zone where he gains atk speed/move speed? Like shens Q?

Adding some counterplay to his R: Yi is no loner immune to cripple (atk speed slows). He can then finally be counter-built in a meaningful way with diver/tanks building heart/randuins to slow him down ( as opposed to counter-picked with an extreme hard CC composition). There are 4 champions and 4 items that cripple, however only 2 of those cripple items can stack and one of those is a component for the other 3.

Alzon8/31/2018, 12:13:51 AM6 votes

Whatever it may be, a new E for Master Yi should use the blades on his boots.

diablo95018/31/2018, 5:52:07 AM3 votes

I like Master Yi so much the way he is now.Please don't change him.He is the only reason I play this game.

Ale non è male9/3/2018, 10:58:24 AM2 votes

If you want to reowrk Yi gameplay (that is supposed to be simple since he is considered a noob friedly champ), you have to either get rid of/modify both W+E or Q+R, you can't change only one of those spells without modify the other that match their other functions from a gameplay point of view

Q+R are the "get on a champ ass and AA him to death + eventually dodge the abilities thry throw at you to stop" abilities W+E (+ passive) are "let's give this champ a ball of stats/give him bonuses while waiting for the situation to deal damage" abilities

Since Q is going to stay, and people don't mind Yi having his curent R (aside from tuning numbers), both his W+E needs to be heavily modified. Meditate is a thematically cool ability, but it is always going to be a problem as long as it does not give downsides on a champ that by his nature is yet going to be feast or famine, so there is no meaningful decision to take about pressing W, aside from not wasting its CD too early

An idea would be to merge his current passive and E which both have the same gameplay fucntion as "ball of damage" abilites into a reworked passive, and having the bonus damage on this "new" passive being disabled while Meditate is on cooldown (the way the current E works)

This way, players will be forced to make much more impactful decision on Master Yi's W usage, as they will have to be careful in make its use worth and not give up precious damage, rather than just using it as a further combo enhancer or to just regen in between of the action, and you can actually put some different kind of ability on E that can give a bit more of a skill expression like what was done with Xin rework

SlashStriker9/6/2018, 6:28:20 PM2 votes

Why everyone puts Master Yi into the jungler category exactly? Because he does bonus damage to monsters? So Lee Sin is a bad jungler cause he doesn't have bonus damage to monsters?

Currently Master Yi's kit doesn't have anything in his kit that defines him as a jungler other than doing extra damage monsters. He is too reliant on his allies to do something and if they don't, things will go really bad when you gank as Yi. He got no slow, stun, or any type of CC that helps. Compare junglers like Nautilus, Lee sin, Udyr, Seruani and so on and now put Yi there and compare them. I played Natulus jungle and man that difference is huge.

Why not Top Yi instead similar to Fiora and Irelia? You pick Yi and you counter enemy tanks or pretty much any top laner since Master Yi have a nice anti-tank sustain damage. Basically if you split push you might as well pick tanky jungler while Top Yi split pushes most of the game

Jungle YI does the same thing like Top Yi does. The Difference is that jungle YI afk farms for most of the time while top YI actively applies pressure to his opponent. The drawback is Yi has barely any escapes other than Highlander 25% movement speed (on an ultimate ability btw)

Koechophe8/31/2018, 5:51:51 AM2 votes

Imho the most frustrating part of Yi is not only that his damage can't be avoided, but also can't be built against in a majority of cases. Due to the rageblade resets, he slams 2 onhits on every attack, which unloads a crazy amount of true damage with his E (and if he's going for the popular Bloodrazor => BoTRK, a lot of % of hp damage too). I've seen fed Yi melt a 3k hp 600 armor Rammus in 2 seconds, which shouldn't be able to happen. On that basis, removing his E with another ability would be lovely (though there's still the issue of on-hit abuse in his passive that can make him too good at tank killing)

La Bello9/1/2018, 5:52:30 PM2 votes

If you ask me R is by far the biggest "Stat check" contributer in the game.

Its entire design is quite literally "you can't be kited" (the main form of counterplay to melee champs for half the cast) along with "You win the DPS Race" via an absurd amount of raw AS. Its extremely binary in design and overall just awful.

Imo both r and E need to go with "Alpha Strike" taking the forefront as Yi's primary combat tool. In addition to this Yi should get an actual identity thats not "reset killer" because time and time again the whole "if I kill the guy next to you then you die next instantly" crap almost never works out. Darius embodies this along with Katarina both of which are pretty on the player agitation scale.

Imo Jinx or Tristana are better examples of how "reset" champions should function. getting a kill should result in a burst of utility rather than a burst of damage so if we were to keep Yi's Fantasy of being a Reset champion he should have his design tweaked so getting kills does not result in a complete reset in his damage but rather enables him to quickly relocate or of course stall via meditate.

if you can address these things Yi would be in a much healthier state

Jerrrge9/21/2018, 4:22:56 AM2 votes

I see you brought up Xin, which is actually a perfect example of what you can do with a AA champ, i feel like that was one of the best reworks they did.

Master Yi is extremely basic, one of the few original champs that still has his core movesets with him.

I think like what they did with Xin, maybe combine his E with Q, so everytime he uses Q he gets that buff, then put something with his E, like you mentioned, a dash, or even a slow with the swords in his boots, maybe a skill shot that goes through minions and terrain or something. The concept of his w is fine, maybe tune it a little.

his Ult is his bread and butter, if they change that, then it would change the champ alot. What they did with Xin was brilliant, maybe like you said an immunity to attack speed slows would be nice, but then he would shred armor even faster since theres no counter play with that. That would need thought, but that shoudnt be changed much.

He is a fun champ, especially getting Q dodges, but like you said, he really is useless in team fights and the game really revolves how he is doing.

Pianoasis2/4/2019, 8:02:53 AM1 votes

Yo imagine if Master Yi meditate actually brought auras back into the game holy fuck I would main the shit out of him.

There's is just so many ways they can go right with a master yi rework I'm fucking ecstatic its actually happening.

Kadexe9/26/2018, 7:25:57 PM1 votes

You could also possibly remove some dps but give him a physical damage shield. That way he could actually fight enemies instead of taking breaks from attacking to Alpha Strike. Any nerf to Master Yi's damage is good for counterplay against him because opponents get more time to retaliate, but hurts Master Yi a lot because he doesn't have the durability to handle that retaliation.

T Captain T9/28/2018, 9:00:12 AM1 votes

There's nothing wrong with basic champions like Yi but I do agree that Master Yi doesn't need a full rework and mostly just a change to his E. Maybe give him something similar to Eve and Ez where he can mark the target, dealing bonus dmg to that target and if he attacks them it'll reduce his alpha strike c/d whereas a kill would completely refresh it along with his E. I'm not a Yi player but I hope they don't change him too drastically. People complain about AA melee champions being too linear but they all actually play very differently. Yi is a carry type AA melee, Trynd is a more split pushing-focused champ, and Jax is a bruiser type fighter. Not every kit has to be too complex either.

Theleon10/1/2018, 9:54:47 AM1 votes

No, yi is fine. No need to destroy a decent champion.

Gilgayu11/20/2018, 12:39:04 AM1 votes

Yi is a interesting case.

He is almost like a champion made for low elo, just like garen and annie, but unlike the other two, his potential (or skill ceiling) is very low. His playstyle need to require more skill than "I just need to know how to dodge cc with my q."

SIayton8/31/2018, 7:12:38 AM1 votes

You can't balance right click, run at you champions. They're either OP or unplayable because there's no finesse in their kit. Just look at what's top tier in the jungle this season (and a lot of top lane too). You tune the damage too high and suddenly the right clickers pass the stat check and are out performing champions with more room for error by a pretty wide margin. Yi is always going to be frustrating to play against unless they rework his kit. He either explodes your team or explodes. No in between.