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Vi Rework Brainstorm

Kadexe·9/26/2018, 7:01:26 PM·17 votes·26,504 views

#Why does Vi need any Reworking?

  • She's been irrelevant in LCS ever since Courage of the Colossus was nerfed. This matters because that colors players' perception of how strong she is.

  • She's one of the least-played champions in D2+ soloqueue because of many problems with her kit.

  • Vi is completely outclassed by Camille. She can lock down enemies more reliably, she has higher mobility, she doesn't have to commit to engaging, not to mention she has a W spell and untargetability with her ult.

  • Vi's ultimate is much worse than it used to be because the counters are so common now. Stopwatch, spellshields, untargetability, etc. It also has a serious weakness, which is that it totally commits her to dashing to her target and often leads her under a turret or into the enemy team. She's not tanky enough to do that.

  • She's very easy to peel off an enemy after her ultimate is finished. Her basic abilities don't give her enough mobility to stick to enemies, so she has to burst them with R, Q, and E.

  • Her kit feels very underwhelming for a champion of her age. You've got a single skillshot dash with heavy drawbacks (long charge, easily interrupted), a 3-hit passive with no active effect, and E is little more than an attack reset. She doesn't even have any abilities with descriptions more than a paragraph long (I'm kidding).

  • She's quite useless if she's not fed. She needs a lot of gold to be sufficiently tanky and do respectable damage, and she doesn't have enough consistent utility to be a useful tank.

Goals:

  • Make Vi unique from other champions (i.e. don't make her more like Camille or Jarvan), make her more of a brawler character. (More punching)

  • Allow Vi to be played as a bruiser or a tank. (Flexible punching)

  • Make general improvements to Vi's kit. (Better punching)

  • Add more depth to Vi's gameplay. (Combo punches)

  • Reduce some of her snowballing features, like her high Bonus AD scaling, so she feels less feast-or-famine. (More consistent punching)

  • Give her a plan B for when she misses her Q. (More reliable punching)

Stretch goals:

  • Keep her noob-friendly, that's one of the nice things about her current kit. (Easy punching)

  • Give some love to attack speed builds. I like build diversity on my champions.

Disclaimer: All numbers below are ballpark figures. They're not intended to be exact.

#Buffs

Passive: Blast Shield

  • Can be reset by Assault and Battery, see below for details.

Q: Vault Breaker

  • Now scales with Total AD instead of Bonus AD. (Lower ratio, of course)

  • Now requires 1.25 seconds 1 second to fully charge. However, the max range is lowered from 750 to 650. Less range in exchange for usability.

  • Vi's Q cooldown is 2 seconds longer at all ranks, but it's reduced by 0.5 seconds with every basic attack. This is another nerf to limit her mobility, but it also means Vi will have higher uptime on Q while she's in combat. Also a buff to attack speed Vi.

W: Passive: Denting Blows / Active: Uncivil Action

  • New active: Vi's next basic attack within 3 seconds has 300 range (she dashes to targets that aren't in melee range). She deals flat physical damage to the target enemy, and stuns them for 0.5 seconds. This expands her utility and

  • Vi's attack will follow moving enemies up to 600 units. Dash speed is similar to Vault Breaker.

  • Works as an attack reset.

  • Simply scales with total AD, no base damage. The AD ratio increases as W is maxed.

  • Manacost is around 50, cooldown is somewhere between 3 or 10 seconds. Not sure what it should be, given that it has a lot of mobility+CC but its purpose to make her more difficult to kite.

  • I could've made this a skillshot, but I want the spell to be targeted to constrain her mobility. She already has Q for chasing and jumping through walls.

  • Uncivil Action and Excessive Force can be combined into one attack, as both are enhanced basic attacks. If you do so, Excessive Force's damage will be applied in a circle around Vi with reduced range.

  • Denting Blows now grants 20% attack speed passively, at all times. Does not increase when W is maxed. It's clunky that you only get attack speed after you proc your 3-hit effect.

E: Excessive Force

  • New: Activating Excessive Force empowers your next basic attack or ability.

  • Empowered Vault Breaker applies Excessive Force like a basic attack would - it deals extra damage and deals AoE damage behind the opponent.

  • Empowered Uncivil Action deals extra damage to the target and AoE damage in a circle.

  • Empowered Assault and Battery deals extra damage to the target and AoE damage in a circle.

  • These empowered effects make the spell more interesting to use because you have multiple options in how you can use it, without really doing anything too new and different that would make her more difficult to balance.

R: Assault and Battery

  • New: Assault and Battery now procs Blast Shield (even if it's on cooldown) upon activation, and the shield grows [8% of her max health] per each enemy champion struck during the dash. This makes her teamfighting better by giving her the tankiness she needs to survive her own ult.

#Nerfs

  • In general, this reworked Vi would have nerfs to her damage across most of her abilities, particularly Q and E. Possibly even nerfs to her cooldowns or base stats. See Xin Zhao's rework (Or Ezreal's coming rework?) for comparison.

  • As mentioned above, Denting Blows' attack speed no longer increases by maxing W. This is so that Vi doesn't get massive powerspikes from maxing W.

  • Denting Blows no longer scales with AD. Nothing but base damage. This is one of those changes to make Vi snowball less, and have more consistent performance.

  • Vault Breaker can be channeled for up to 4 seconds 3 seconds. Less time to aim.

  • Vault Breaker range is lower (see above).

  • -5 or -10 base movement speed to compensate for improved mobility (if necessary).

  • Assault and Battery has its range reduced to 650 (from 800).

  • Excessive Force costs 45 mana at all levels. Mostly limits her ability combos, and again this is one of those changes so that Vi doesn't get 6+ different benefits from maxing W.

25 Comments

JetpackKatt9/28/2018, 12:28:56 AM3 votes

I think you may very well be on to something with this! I do think that giving her the dash on your proposed W is a bit too much when combined with the stun. Perhaps if it was something like Talon's Q, and the stun only activates when the dash doesn't? Other than that little gripe, I say well thought and nicely proposed! Perhaps a Riot member will see this and give Vi some "better punching." ;)

zammea10/2/2018, 6:56:14 PM2 votes

Like a guy who plays Mainly Vi Honestly, the one thing they can do to her is Make her Ulti apply 3 stacks of W, and implement an item that makes her immune to all form of CC for 2 sec ( for us mear mortals ) at expend of increased dmg from CC ability like inc dmg from cc ability by 33%. the Cloak exists and it good, however, it is an item that is unusable on her because you can't channel it and your Q at the same time and that make it so out of your build. I like the Aftershock and Phase rush that can work towards that, however. Even with that, it does nothing to make her viable. She is one dimensional by design. She used to be the type of jungler that stood b/n tank and bruiser/assassin. But not anymore. The game is fast Paced that that is toxic for her. At a meta that is literally "kill or be kill" it sounds absurd of what am I saying, but she does not work well. Also the fact that there is a majority of the champions that counter her in a various way.

Also what you propose is just absurd her R is 40% shield if she hit all 5 people. I can build one tank item and that will make me Godly.

W is a bad idea. Additional mobility does not solve her problem. Her problem with mobility is because her ganking paths are the standards and that is not effective against well versed enemies.

I would like if my R is blocked its cd to be halved, but a good Vi can kill you IN QRE combo by casting the R the moment when the Q land, making the transition undodgeable. However, being Blocked by Immunity is problematic not because of wasted ult but because you keep on going towards them doing absolutely nothing. But giving them free time to do dmg on you while you are locked by your ult animation even 0.5 sec.

How I feel about Vi is she is my girl and I will play her nonstop. Will She and I suck - yes. Does she need rework - probably, but not the one you suggest. She have 4 runes ( if you include Electrocution), but I do not believe that is a rune that Suites her very well. Same is about items, I was happy when the spear of shojin was announced a way to shit on all the Yis and Udyrs that just shit on me so bad.

:)

Noor Sakata9/27/2018, 1:14:43 AM2 votes

Remembered the last time I played Vi , I ult a Lucian while he was running and Ulting me , so as I was in ult animation , first he hit the Blast cone then pressed R to me and so he pressed Flash , then E took a Thresh Lantern , I died before reaching him xD

Oznap9/29/2018, 8:39:19 AM2 votes

I don't know why E needs to be a empowerment as the R and W affect appear to be the same. A empowerment should offer a unique affect that benefits the already existing abilities. Also I don't think aoes would encourage hitting. Its also sort of her unique ability that one ability you point to that no one else really has (ultimate reminds me too much of Warwicks old R/Dashes with cc isn't anything new) and you put it on 1/3rd of her abilities.

The W new ability affect and function seems similar to Camille's Hookshot offensively except its a illaoi Harsh Lesson? I know you need some form of cc to keep on enemies these days but not sure if this is the way to do it if you want to keep her unique.

Just my take on it. It needs more change to be considered a rework and sort of seems in-between a rework and a buff.

Vexilus9/30/2018, 4:29:56 PM1 votes

{quoted} AIQ Over all I think the direction is way too revolved around 1 AA. If I miss Q and land 1 AA with WE active that's still 70% of my power and gain a shield that I can refresh with R. Pretty rewarding for a missed skill shot and no real skill involved.

{quoted} CHIPNDIP1 If Vi were to receive a rework, there needs to be something in it that separates her from Camille and any other diver that'd also encroach on her space as a back line diver designed to catch mobile targets.

I think these are two important comments on this rework. In your post you mention reducing the range of her Q and R, but those are her two most important engage tools. As a back line diver reducing her range limits what makes her a diver.

I like base 20% attack speed and flat damage on her W. Gives her extra power against tanks and those aren't Vi's main target. And Vi very much needs a shield on her ult, as you said it's very easy to escape her ult and she puts herself into the enemy team in order to do so. Not sure how I feel about the W active effect, it would be nice to have an effect on her W but not exactly that one

As for the R an additional change that would be nice is increasing the knockup duration and damage by the cast range. Gives her the feeling that the farther she travels to ult someone the higher she uppercuts them and the more damage they'd take.

Maybe potentially buffing E so that the empowered auto attack knocks the enemy back slightly?

Nhifu10/1/2018, 4:35:14 AM1 votes

Clear speed 5/5 Burst 5/5 Ganking power 3/5 Only because the punch takes time to charge up (people die if they get hit though) Tankiness 1/5 Absolutely nothing to stop her from dying, she usually builds Tri / Steraks / GA though (Look at J4 builds for ref) Engage 4/5 The ult is pretty slow honestly, but feels like a malphite ult sometimes

At the end of the day, Vi gains tankiness from a super fast clear, and having super high base damage + armor pen. She's in a good spot buddy, just try mixing up different items depending on the situation rather than building the same.

item 1412 item 3078 item 3748item 3047 GG

If I had to compare her to any other champions, it would have to be Hecarim as her main competitor in pro series. Hecarim Absolutely a monster with Predator right now, except Hecarim struggles against tanky comps (Urgot)

Doge202010/1/2018, 7:27:55 PM1 votes

Maybe make e so it doesn´t have the charges, but when you land an ability or proc the third strike of denting blows your e CD is reduced by 2-3 seconds. You might have to slightly lower the CD of e in compensation for removing the e.

Another idea would be to make the empowered ability versions of e deal less damage than the AA e, or even make e not usable on q or r. So if a Vi builds tri they can only proc it and e on the actual e ability and not on q, w (w maybe could activate e because it is an empowered AA) or R. I said that because you are making e able to cast on abilities, it might make on hit items proc on abilities that normally don’t proc on hit items. To me you would either want to make e deal less damage on the ability empowered e’s or just make e not usable on abilities.

If you want to go with the abilities with empowered e (with reduced damage) I have some ideas to still make them powerful even with reduced damage. With the AOE additions that you mentioned, the e also pushes back enemies (maybe make the range that they are pushed back scale with bonus AD). So the empowered q could make the initial target get pushed back more than live version and the cone behind the target will slightly push back (and interrupt) other enemies caught in it. The w will slightly push back targets away from Vi while also increasing the stun by something like 0.15. The r version would be like the w except it will push back enemies more and deal more damage on the AOE part.

From what I can see, by making e usable on the abilities it can make Vi’s one shot build way more powerful than on live. I suggested these few things to hopefully try and lower the chance of turning Vi in to a one shot diving champ with a giant ass shield to tank more damage and more towards a diving champ with a bunch of interrupting CC.

Generic Ninja10/17/2018, 12:02:32 AM1 votes

Honestly, much easier to do it. Just take her ult and get rid of it. Delete it, delete the code, and add a sign somewhere that says "when designing a champion, always ensure there is counterplay that doesnt revolve on one very specific item half the champions cant even use". Then give her a new ult with inherent counterplay. Then you can buff her to your liking, instead of having to give her the poppy treatment of "this design is so unbelievably bad and unfun that we have to keep her unviable forever without any debate or question".

LilxPaprika10/20/2018, 9:37:19 AM1 votes

this could also be used to fix Vi : https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/uoWUtkxi-feature-idea-merchants-value-to-offer-better-tradeoffs-custom-tailoring

gabetheguy10/26/2018, 1:22:35 AM1 votes

aftershock essentially fulfills the same purpose as courage. only it scales with AD, which Vi loves.

Kaioko10/26/2018, 7:20:02 PM1 votes

You need to address the problem that is her ult before giving her more utility especially stunning for 0.5 seconds up to 3 times (that's a little insane btw). Change the ult to be a skillshot if you want to keep the same effect and allow her to have the shield like you said.

She basically suffers from the same problems as old warwick -- the ult is too powerful and too much guarantee to be able to shove power into her basic abilities or base stats. You compare her to camille, and while camille's ult does lock you down, it does have counter play in the sense that you or your team can push her out of it.

Linna Excel11/10/2018, 2:32:16 AM1 votes

TBH, you lost me when you thought Vi should be bruiser/tank only. I'm fine with bruiser but I think she could be more of a melee ADC or an assassin when doing well.

If you want her to punch more she needs to be able to get into range to punch, survive long enough to throw punches, and be rewarded for continual punching. With her Q and her Ult, she's got the ability to get into range. Her W is a reward for punching. What she really lacks is in kit survivability as I don't think her passive works that well.

You could argue that with item 1419item 3153item 3124 and her W, she could be pretty devastating as a DPS champ. However because she isn't an ADC named Vayne that build would be suicide. So what's the easist solution? Give her a passive that links her survivablity to punching more.

Passive: Rocky Vi Whenever Vi damages a unit, she gets a stack of Rocky Vi. Each stack gives her X Armor/MR and Y life steal. 10 stacks max; a stack lasts for 3 seconds.

ModKnightsKemplar9/27/2018, 1:10:35 AM1 votes

Approved!

Direwollf2/2/2019, 9:23:44 AM1 votes

I remember seeing some youtube video where they talked about Vi getting a rework. She is going to become a semi-tanky late game scaling bruiser. Which is good cause right now she doesn't scale too well. Plus she all of her skills can be countered by most champs

65479/27/2018, 10:56:07 AM1 votes

Please all the assassins are nerfed and they cant hard carry anymore like they used to. You over here crying about a champ thats dead like your play style.

AIQ9/28/2018, 9:16:46 PM1 votes

I don't know I like somethings others I don't. Over all I think the direction is way too revolved around 1 AA. If I miss Q and land 1 AA with WE active that's still 70% of my power and gain a shield that I can refresh with R. Pretty rewarding for a missed skill shot and no real skill involved. There's nothing about Charges so I'd assume E is like Jaxs W.

Currently one of her most optimal combos is... Q/AA/E/R/AA/E
Q in land (1 stack of W)// AA for the second stack // for the third // then you can ult AA E or go greedy for another AA E combo then ult for another AA and Q.

I do like the idea of the R refreshing or just making its own shield by using ult. If it scaled with AD Tank Vi wouldn't care about it that much and AD Vi would love it. Also having the E charge empower Q for AOE would be neat as well. I think those two changes would give Vi enough fresh paint to last a long time.

chipndip19/29/2018, 5:29:39 PM1 votes

I don't think this really addresses Vi's issues.

Vi has been power crept on by Camille and Jarvan. Camille does what Vi would do (Catch mobile targets and wail on them) significantly better than Vi can if you put the time into Camille, and Jarvan has his knock up > cage that's great for team fights. If Vi were to receive a rework, there needs to be something in it that separates her from Camille and any other diver that'd also encroach on her space as a back line diver designed to catch mobile targets. Right now all she has is early pressure, but that's a very "solo queue" play style and not something that's actually valuable once you face opponents that don't fall for that gimmick. She may need larger scale work.